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Old 05-30-2009, 02:02 AM    (permalink
Race for the Heisman
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Originally Posted by dabul-master View Post
If big XII defenses are so terrible why did UF score 24 points only? In case you don't know, that's lower than they scored against EVERY SEC defense. So I don't want to hear the the conference knock on Bradford.
Maybe because it was Oklahoma? Just because one team loaded with prospects can play defense doesn't mean the same holds true for the majority of the conference.
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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I really do question his leadership skills at the next level. I love his passion for the game and he can lead a team by example. He's a great leader at the college level, but I don't how NFL players are going to react to this kid and his praise Jesus Christ mentality and his squeaky-clean, virginal image. I don't know what kind of vocal presence he will have in a locker room of men. He makes me roll my eyes whenever he talks, but he pumps me up when he's on the field. I'm a huge fan of his, but I can't take him seriously when he talks and he does come off as a bit of joke.
Have you ever seen a Matt Ryan interview? He's as awkward and as squeaky clean as they come. I don't think anybody is questioning his leadership ability. I'm sure both Tim Tebow and Matt Ryan do just fine at relating with their teammates.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:04 AM    (permalink
Race for the Heisman
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
Have you ever seen a Matt Ryan interview? He's as awkward and as squeaky clean as they come. I don't think anybody is questioning his leadership ability. I'm sure both Tim Tebow and Matt Ryan do just fine at relating with their teammates.
Just speculation, but I would guess Ryan leads somewhat like Peyton Manning. It isn't by virtue of any extraordinary natural charisma so much as it is being an intelligent quarterback and knowing the game well enough that his teammates have trust in him to make what needs to happen manifest on the field. Of course I'm not saying neither Ryan nor Manning isn't a leader in other ways as well, but that's how I see them (moreso Peyton at this point) just based on the way I have seen them interact with their teammates.

The point is, I don't think Tebow can lead like that (by virtue of comprehensive understanding). I remember an article on Colt Brennan trying to pick his (Tebow's) brain at the Heisman presentation pre-Sugar Bowl (where Hawaii got massacred) and Brennan was asking about coverages and Tebow was apparently telling him about the reads he made of Georgia's defensive line. Not saying Tebow hasn't advanced since then, or that he can't lead by passion (because I sure as hell don't doubt him from that perspective), but it is something to take note of with Tebow at least.

Regarding Bradford, I don't like that he gets the call from the sidelines nearly all of the time, but I do like the fact that he seems to know what his reads should be each time regardless of what the switch is.

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Old 05-30-2009, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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Get Jimmy Clausen' name outta there. Garbage. Freaking ND sucks with a terrible QB and people still talk about their QB like he's ever done something or shown he might be able to do something. Let him have a couple of good games in college before we start talking about him as a pro prospect. Minga.
oh please

if mike teel could manage to get drafted im pretty sure jimmy clausen can too.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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oh please

if mike teel could manage to get drafted im pretty sure jimmy clausen can too.
Teel never lost to Syracuse.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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This is what I think about Clausen:

He's been coached to be a mechanically perfect quarterback by professionals since he was nine or so, and it shows in his play. He's got a great arm, plenty of experience, very good pocket presence, and he's shown toughness going through his freshman year at Notre Dame with their pathetic excuse of an offensive line that year.

Now, he does throw more than his fair share of interceptions, but if he makes the same improvement between his sophomore and junior years that he did between his freshman and sophomore years, he will be well on his way to becoming a first day or better prospect. Obviously some of his competition is questionable, but if he gives you great mechanics, experience, arm strength, accuracy, and toughness, that covers a lot of what makes a good quarterback besides decision-making. If his experiences next year help him improve on that, why not?
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Myth: Big 12 defenses are terrible.

Fact: Big 12 offenses are incredible.

When you've got college crazy talent from top to bottom (just think of the QBs- McCoy, Daniel, Bradford, Reesing, Robinson, Griffith) and the wide-open spread-60 throws a game systems, naturally more points will be scored.

It's really not that complicated. The defensive talent in the Big 12 is comparable to just about every other conference. The difference is, in the ACC the defenses have to defend Xavier Lee and Tyrod Taylor while the Big 12 defenses must stop prolific offensive attacks each week.

Big 12 defenses are not awful. Big 12 offenses are just really, really good.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Big 12 defenses are not awful. Big 12 offenses are just really, really good.
Points per game in the regular season compared to bowl games.

Oklahoma- 51.1 to 14
Texas Tech- 43.8 to 34
Texas- 42.4 to 24
Missouri- 42.2 to 30
Oklahoma State- 40.8 to 31
Nebraska- 35.4 to 26
Kansas- 33.4 to 42

Care to explain the massive drop in points against other conferences (other than Kansas)?
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Points per game in the regular season compared to bowl games.

Oklahoma- 51.1 to 14
Texas Tech- 43.8 to 34
Texas- 42.4 to 24
Missouri- 42.2 to 30
Oklahoma State- 40.8 to 31
Nebraska- 35.4 to 26
Kansas- 33.4 to 42

Care to explain the massive drop in points against other conferences (other than Kansas)?
Those are all 30+ in bowl games. It's not a massive drop, it's the product of postseason football.

My logic is simple: Big 12 offenses are VERY good and the Big 12 defenses look worse than they are because of this. And because statistically the offenses are so prolific, the defenses look bad on paper to those who don't actually watch but just look at scores. Tell Orakpo, Hood, McBath, Moore, the Griffins, and countless more that Big 12 defenses are awful. Oklahoma putting up 14 against an amazing Florida team in the title game doesn't disprove that OU had a great offense.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Those are all 30+ in bowl games. It's not a massive drop, it's the product of postseason football.
Except it's not, as the two best teams in the league scored 14 and 24 points when matched up against elite defenses. (Florida 9th total D, Ohio State 14th, Florida 4th scoring D, Ohio State 6th)
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Myth: Big 12 defenses are terrible.

Fact: Big 12 offenses are incredible.


Go back to that Youtube video and look at the Texas Tech defenders at 0:50, 1:05, 1:35, and 1:42.

The defense can't tackle to save their lives. Or their #2 BCS ranking.

At 1:42, DeMarco Murray catches a pass at the right hash mark at the line of scrimmage and runs to the left sideline, encountering six defenders who can do nothing but lightly brush a single off-balance hand on his shoulder, like he's a dirty rag they don't want to touch with their dainty fingers.

Despite the fact he's gone ten yards backwards from the line of scrimmage and the defenders are on a straight line, Murray beats all six to the sideline, perhaps because these geniuses abandoned their angle and tried to chase him down in the backfield.

Murray heads upfield, where a DB with a perfect angle draws in his arms, turns his body sideways, and attempts to give Murray a side-shoulder bump, just to show him who's boss.

Another DB right in front of Murray decides to tackle him by stretching over his head and reaching for his waist. When this fails, he decides to jog along with Murray for a bit while holding onto his belt. His buddy comes over to help him with the reacharound. The incident ends when one of the disgusted suitors lets go and Murray runs out of bounds in heartbreak and shame.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I am a big fan of Sam Bradford. I look at him as an elite pro prospect on par with Stafford and Sanchez, or even better. He is in no way a finished product at this point, but I really like what he has done in two years and I think he is ahead of where Matt Stafford was after 2 years of starting experience. Bradford showed incredible progression from year one to year two. He also showed signifigantly improved arm strength, anticipation, and offensive understanding in his second year. Bradford's body continues to fill out and I am looking forward to see the progression he has made this offseason, and if he continues to improve at this pace I think he is the best player in this draft class.

His mechanics are somewhat unorthodox and he does not have a cannon, but I love that the ball gets where it needs to go consistently and accurately. He takes the ball from under center far more than other spread option QB's. His footwork and athletic ability are terribly underrated. I also like how he played through the hand injury and subsequent surgery. He wore a cast in his last two games and played incredibly.

As a leader, Bradford has let it happen naturally and IMO it became clear that the OU team looked to him as their unquestioned leader as the year went on. He is soft spoken, but comes off in interviews as confident, extremely intelligent, and thoughtful, while remaining humble. He is focused on the team and the programs success.

Like I said, if he continues his progression, I think he is the elite prospect in this draft. While I see that there will be a lot of doubters and detractors, I am clearly in Bradford's corner... and I believe he will take his game to an elite NFL prospect level as the season unfolds.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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If big XII defenses are so terrible why did UF score 24 points only? In case you don't know, that's lower than they scored against EVERY SEC defense. So I don't want to hear the the conference knock on Bradford.
Using one game/one team to say that Big XII defenses were better than SEC defenses last year is just as dumb as using a limited number of games to say Matt Stafford and Brady Quinn didn't get good protection.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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Using one game/one team to say that Big XII defenses were better than SEC defenses last year is just as dumb as using a limited number of games to say Matt Stafford and Brady Quinn didn't get good protection.
Hey, if you want to defend your viewpoint that Jay Cutler has been the only pressured high-caliber quarterback prospect in recent memory, fine, but don't take a sideways shot at me like that.

Stafford's line went to pieces last year. Quinn faced some good teams his senior year and was pressured every time Notre Dame didn't play a team like Army. For comparison's sake, assuming they all have pretty good pocket presence, Quinn was sacked 31 times his senior year, Jay Cutler 23, Matt Ryan 21, Matt Stafford 17. Obviously sacks don't tell you anything explicitly considering they are the result of numerous variables, but it is something, which is more than just your offering of your opinion.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Hey, if you want to defend your viewpoint that Jay Cutler has been the only pressured high-caliber quarterback prospect in recent memory, fine, but don't take a sideways shot at me like that.

Stafford's line went to pieces last year. Quinn faced some good teams his senior year and was pressured every time Notre Dame didn't play a team like Army. For comparison's sake, assuming they all have pretty good pocket presence, Quinn was sacked 31 times his senior year, Jay Cutler 23, Matt Ryan 21, Matt Stafford 17. Obviously sacks don't tell you anything explicitly considering they are the result of numerous variables, but it is something, which is more than just your offering of your opinion.
I believe I addressed your post in a reasonable manner, the post you quoted was a shot at this:

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Quinn, hate the guy and think he's completely average, but anytime ND actually played someone with a defense, he was pressured all game long. It just so happens ND plays two teams with a defense that rank in the top 50 a year.

...

If you think Matt Stafford had clean pockets then you didn't watch him and you surely didn't see the Alabama or Florida game. They were on national tv.
Not you. As for the sack numbers, college football stats don't really matter all that much to me, I think watching the games is much more important to the evaluation of a prospect, and Jay Cutler was playing in the SEC on the usual whipping boy team. Most of the time he had to evade a lot of pressure to get the ball off, he was seeing almost the caliber of pressure that NFL teams can bring on a pretty much weekly basis, much closer to it than anything Quinn, Stafford, or just about anyone else you can name (Edwards I'd accept as seeing close to an equal amount of pressure, but no one thought nearly as highly of him as they did of Cutler coming out). Quinn and Stafford might have seen the pressure Cutler saw on a near weekly basis in a game or two of each season, it's much different in terms of how it would prepare a player for the next level. Of course, this is JMO, but I watched a lot of all of them, I saw FAR more clean pockets an MUCH more time for Quinn and Stafford than I did for Cutler.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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Na, Rivers has like a three-quarter delivery. He doesn't have that weird pushing-the-ball thing that Bradford does.

The nearest thing I can think of in recent years is Vince Young, people said that would be no big deal too. Although Young has other issues, and if he was a better QB between the ears maybe his throw wouldn't matter much, I dunno.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Danny Wuerffel
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I saw Danny play a lot in Washington under Spurrier, and he's not a 3/4 or sidearm thrower.
HE just didn't have an arm period.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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He pushed it. I remember trying to emulate his throwing motion when he was in college and then with the Saints. It's hard! The motion is similar to how a girl throws a baseball...
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SKim172 View Post
Teel never lost to Syracuse.
This is the nail in the coffin for me as well. Can Clausen please do something to justify the fact that I even know his name?
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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This is the nail in the coffin for me as well. Can Clausen please do something to justify the fact that I even know his name?
Wasn't he an uber-hyped QB prospect from California? Being on this website and from California, that should be enough for you to know his name.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Bradford currently or will in the future suck.

I don't think he is all-pro material at all, but a career Matt Shaub type QB is very respectful IMO and I think that's what Bradford ends up being.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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I have no idea why. But Bradford reminds me of Joey Harrington. But his ceiling is I guess pretty high, like Phillip Rivers, not elite but above average skills.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Bradford reminds me of a Chad Pennington kind of. His arm strength is questionable, he doesn't make that impressive of throws. His OL was amazing and he had all day to throw in most games. I think the QB in this upcoming draft are overrated, people say how Stafford and Sanchez were products of a weak class but I think people underrate them. They would match up with any of the QBs in next years class in the NFL. Stafford and Sanchez played in prosystems and have made NFL type throws, I think both were very good NFL prospects.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why people say Bradford's arm strength is questionable. He isn't JaMarcus Russell in terms of arm strength but he certainly is not Chad Pennington, even pre-injury Pennington. On a scale of 1-10, 5 being average, Bradford's arm strength is probably about an 8.
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