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Old 08-08-2009, 10:16 PM    (permalink
JFLO
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This thread started when a couple days before I took a break from this website, which was about three or four months ago...I think
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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Not a fan of Bradford as a pro QB at all to be honest, but you can't expect honest discussion with such a biased topic title.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of Sam Bradford. I think at this point his positives outweigh his negatives. However, if I was drafting him it would be preferable to be able to sit him for a year.
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Old 09-07-2009, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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How does this injury affect his draft stock? It seems like at a minimum he is going to miss a good chuck of the season, at least 6 weeks and maybe even the whole thing. Does he stay another year or does he take the risk and enter the draft?
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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IMO he is no longer entering this draft, not enough time to make an impact and if he enters he will go lower than he should and he would lose millions, he will be the best QB in 2011.
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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How does this injury affect his draft stock? It seems like at a minimum he is going to miss a good chuck of the season, at least 6 weeks and maybe even the whole thing. Does he stay another year or does he take the risk and enter the draft?
Unless more was found to be wrong with the shoulder today it is hard to say when he would return. Certainly they'll shoot for the Red River shootout in early October. I think his status for the NFL is pretty set in that he'll most likely be the 1st (2nd at worst) QB taken. There are enough teams like St Louis, San Fran, Seattle,Jacksonville, Carolina that need QBs i dont think he'll be off the board for long.
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't know yet, but I thought he looked pretty good before he got hurt. I was mildly surprised. I don't put a lot of stock into BYU' defense, but the timing and rhythm he had with the offense was obviously much better compared to the backup. He has mastered the offense and makes quick reads and gets the ball out extremely quickly. I thought they took the ball out of his hands way too much early on and kept BYU in the game.

The injury wont be a problem unless he misses a majority of the season (Playing in 2 games or something) or has lingering problems with it. If a team thinks he's a top five caliber before the injury and he only plays in 6 or 7 games this year, then it will have no impact on his draft status.
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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This better take longer than a month to heal. I'd love to see our DL food on Landry Jones.
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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This better take longer than a month to heal. I'd love to see our DL food on Landry Jones.
From what I've read, it's either a grade II or a grade III AC joint sprain.

Grade III is "shut it down son, you need surgery."

Grade II is "immobilize for 4 weeks, in 6-8 weeks you can start lifting weights again."

So it's looking like you get your wish.

At this point, I don't think there's really any way that Bradford declares for the 2010 draft.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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I agree that he's unlikely to enter the draft now, unless he comes back quick and wins a Heisman and a national title in limited play.

However, if Landry Jones struggles to win games, then that might help his stock by proving he's not just a product of the system.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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However, if Landry Jones struggles to win games, then that might help his stock by proving he's not just a product of the system.
I don't think that most NFL scouts will be all that impressed by "I played better than a true freshman (who wasn't groomed to start in the offseason) in this system." I mean, it might help him but I don't think it would prove anything.

If anything, his stock would be hurt if Landry plays really well. I don't think, as a rule, any player can really help his draft stock while being unable to play due to injury, regardless of what other players can do. You help your stock by playing (well).
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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Landry Jones isn't a true freshman.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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I agree that he's unlikely to enter the draft now, unless he comes back quick and wins a Heisman and a national title in limited play.

However, if Landry Jones struggles to win games, then that might help his stock by proving he's not just a product of the system.
And come back for another year to risk injury? Sam Bradford will be in the 2010 draft.
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think his injury effects his draft stock that much if he is back in 2-3 weeks. He looked really good before the injury, being it was the first game of the year. He will still have enough time to make an impact and hopefully play for some sort of BCS game.
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm really very confused now. The reports are that Bradford has a grade 3 AC joint sprain *and* that he should be back in 2-4 weeks.

Having had some experience with shoulder injuries myself, he shouldn't be allowed to even use the arm for 4 weeks, and shouldn't do anything strenuous with it for 6-8 lest he risk long term injury that will require more invasive surgery.

Is Sam Bradford some sort of superhuman with unnatural shoulders, or are the OU doctors doing him a disservice?
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Old 09-21-2009, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about Landry Jones? He put 336 yards and 6 TDs against Tulsa. Anyone think the system makes him look better than he actually is, or is Landry Jones a potential first round draft pick as well? Does his crazy numbers have any impact on Bradford and his draft stock?
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Old 09-21-2009, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about Landry Jones? He put 336 yards and 6 TDs against Tulsa. Anyone think the system makes him look better than he actually is, or is Landry Jones a potential first round draft pick as well? Does his crazy numbers have any impact on Bradford and his draft stock?
I think you will here a lot about it leading up to the draft but right now, I want to see Jones put up big numbers against a higher caliber team before we jump to any big conclusions about the Oklahoma offense, Sam Bradford, or Landry Jones.
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:34 AM    (permalink
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i do find it pretty funny that Jones put up better numbers than Bradford has ever put up granted it was against Toledo but still it was his first game. I never really watched Bradford play before seeing him against Texas Tech in the OP the NC against Florida and seeing other videos of him made me agree with the OP to an extent. i dont think hell fall to the 4th when he enters the draft but that doesnt mean i think he doesnt deserve to fall to the 4th round. my biggest knock is that he reminds me of Jake Delhomme because he stares down his recievers the same way Jake does.He also does only make 1 or 2 reads usually on the same side of the field. Bradford is an overhyped QB that to me has more potential to be a huge bust then be a huge boom.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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I would like BigBanger to analyze and assess Sam Bradford from these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0k8DqFOZMg

Quick (and somewhat amateurish) impressions:

Sam looks pretty darn impressive for someone who had a significant shoulder injury. His arm strength seems to be inconsistent at some points during the highlights, so that could be a cause for concern. At 1:12 (although he is flushed from the pocket) and at 1:52 are where his arm looks just average. Then again, he did throw the ball forty-nine times and he still had some zip on his passes towards the end of the game. I would say his arm was above-average on the day which should bode well moving forward as he continues to recover.

BigBanger said that Bradford stares down his targets. On some occasions he does still stare down his receiver, but there is noticeable improvement in this regard. At 0:53, Sam does a nice job of looking up field before quickly turning to the sideline and delivering the ball. Arm strength is just okay, but he places the ball away from the defender giving his receiver the best chance of making the play. At 3:19 (one of his best throws), he looks right before quickly turning left and delivering a strike to his receiver. No hesitation on his part as he quickly turns and throws to his receiver. The fact that he is making strides in this area really has me excited.

Best pass:

4:27. Shows good feel for the pressure before rolling out and hitting his receiver on a comeback route at the sideline. Arm strength looks good, quick release, and shows good mobility rolling out with a nice fluid throw. This pass impresses me because it is essential for the WCO the Rams are using.

Worst pass:

1:52. This pass is one that makes me uneasy. Not only does he throw it with no zip, he also waits until his receiver gets open for a full second before delivering the ball. He should be able to throw the ball just before the receiver makes his break. That is the sign of a great quarterback.

BigBanger, I know you said you don't like using highlights as a means for evaluation, but I would like to know whether or not you see improvements based on Bradford from 2008 to 2009. I want the Rams to get the right QB in April so every input and analysis I read is critical.

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Old 10-13-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I would like BigBanger to analyze and assess Sam Bradford from these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0k8DqFOZMg

Quick (and somewhat amateurish) impressions:

Sam looks pretty darn impressive for someone who had a significant shoulder injury. His arm strength seems to be inconsistent at some points during the highlights, so that could be a cause for concern. At 1:12 (although he is flushed from the pocket) and at 1:52 are where his arm looks just average. Then again, he did throw the ball forty-nine times and he still had some zip on his passes towards the end of the game. I would say his arm was above-average on the day which should bode well moving forward as he continues to recover.

BigBanger said that Bradford stares down his targets. On some occasions he does still stare down his receiver, but there is noticeable improvement in this regard. At 0:53, Sam does a nice job of looking up field before quickly turning to the sideline and delivering the ball. Arm strength is just okay, but he places the ball away from the defender giving his receiver the best chance of making the play. At 3:19 (one of his best throws), he looks right before quickly turning left and delivering a strike to his receiver. No hesitation on his part as he quickly turns and throws to his receiver. The fact that he is making strides in this area really has me excited.

Best pass:

4:27. Shows good feel for the pressure before rolling out and hitting his receiver on a comeback route at the sideline. Arm strength looks good, quick release, and shows good mobility rolling out with a nice fluid throw. This pass impresses me because it is essential for the WCO the Rams are using.

Worst pass:

1:52. This pass is one that makes me uneasy. Not only does he throw it with no zip, he also waits until his receiver gets open for a full second before delivering the ball. He should be able to throw the ball just before the receiver makes his break. That is the sign of a great quarterback.

BigBanger, I know you said you don't like using highlights as a means for evaluation, but I would like to know whether or not you see improvements based on Bradford from 2008 to 2009. I want the Rams to get the right QB in April so every input and analysis I read is critical.
The throw at 3:19 is more of what you're looking for, but the guy is wide open and Bradford has no pressure (like 90% of those throws). I just don't see much here to even talk about.

The throw at 4:27 is one of the easiest throws you can make. That is very low difficulty throw at the next level. What do you think made that his best throw? Him being on the move? It being one of his longer throws? Again, I see a wide open throwing lane, hitting an open target, where he's on the move towards his target. If that's an impressive throw or his most impressive, then I think there's a problem. That is as easy a throw as you're going to make at the next level. Saying he had this great pocket presence and all that... I think you're looking for things that aren't there. I think you're trying to convince yourself of something to try to make it more accomplished... when it's an easy read and easy throw. That's what that system does, it creates one-on-one match ups, with easy reads of the defense. That DT raped the OG, and he wasn't close to the QB... the splits help... stretching the defense makes it so much easier, even to do something as simple as buy time in the pocket.

I thought Matt Stafford was the BPA in last years draft and I think he was the third/fourth best QB prospect I've seen (Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer). Here's just a quick example why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvSD...eature=related

Just look at the first two throws... that's an NFL arm. That second throw is extremely high difficulty. That's a Matt Ryan type-game winning throw he made against Va Tech (Victor Harris with tight coverage)... look at where he is on the field (far hash)... look at him look near side, then look all the way to the other side field and quickly get rid of the ball... what's that? 40-50 yards in the air... some pretty tight coverage... ball placement is shockingly impressive (look where the defender is... if he throws low, it's a pick)... I haven't seen Bradford make that kind of throw, and I don't think he can. And honestly, that's not even one of his best throws. That should be impressive, not jaw-dropping, but impressive. I have yet to see a throw by Bradford that even impresses. Stafford made a throw to AJ Green, extremely similar to second throw in that highlight, but the coverage (double) was even tighter and the ball placement even better, and the ball was 60 yards, I kid you not, 60 yards in the air... on a ******* rope. That's a Matt Stafford throw. The throw I talked about with Matt Ryan (That whole 4th QT against VA Tech), that's a Matt Ryan throw. All the great QBs I've seen, they have that throw that is simply jaw-dropping. It should catch your eye. I should think, "I wanna see more of this guy." If I saw a great throw in that highlight, I would have went to ESPN360 and watched every offensive play by OU. Every time Bradford threw the ball, I would that play 3 or 4 times. I would look at everything, but I didn't so, I wont even waste my time seeing that kind of coverage and those kind of throws.

Take a look at the throw at 1:18... that is some tight coverage with a closing safety... that's all arm... again, I think if that's Bradford, that's a pick. A simple smash route where the corner hasn't fully bit on the back in the flat, but he paused just long enough to create a window. I think Bradford doesn't anticipate him getting open (since I don't ever see him throw to a WR when a WR is even with a defender, he waits until the WR is past the defender) and waits for him to get open, and ends up throwing it late... creating a turnover possibility for the safety... or if he has the arm to make up for the late decision, he gets his WR laid out. I don't think he has the arm, so I think that would be a pick. OU runs a ton of smash routes, but they have two WRs to the same side, which makes for an easy dump off to the back since the CBs can't come up. 25 yards later... what did you see? Nothing, so you don't even get to see Bradford attempt those throws since the system doesn't ask him to (1:41 of your video shows you exactly what I'm talking about). He could wind up being a great QB, but since I see so little NFL caliber reads and throws, I have so much doubt that I couldn't justify taking him in the first two or three rounds.

The 55 yard throw is one of his worst in that highlight... and it's all due to his mechanics, he takes his time flipping his hips and setting his feet and doesn't really get into it and drive the ball downfield. It hung up a little bit.

I think that's from his sophomore year. His footwork got much better going into his junior year, but it was still an issue. It's better as a rookie in Detroit. And that's what you look for... a guy progressing. That was also the first highlight I came across when I searched his name on youtube, so it's not like I intentionally looked for his most impressive throws... I just got some mildly good quality video and those were the throws I saw, which he made on a weekly basis. That's an NFL arm, in an NFL system (even though it's very bland), with NFL reads and NFL accuracy.

Bradford might have that great completion percentage, but I think he only has a chance of making one those throws. Stafford showed me everything I look for in a QB.

In a nutshell... just from those quick highlights... that's what I see... I think that's difference. If you don't see that, then you don't see that. I wont try to convince you, but that's what I look for.


I also thought the Rams made a mistake in passing on Mark Sanchez, not a huge one, but I thought they went with the wrong player. I thought Seattle made an even bigger mistake since they took a LB. You can justify a potential franchise LT, but not a SAM backer.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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BigBanger, you said you don't like Clausen, but here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg-76...eature=related

he makes an NFL-level throw, similar to the one Stafford made to Massaqoui in that highlight video.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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That's a fair assessment, but to me at least it looks as if Bradford's arm strength is night and day compared to last year. He certainly has the build to add more muscle (he added 10-15 lbs. this past off season) so it's certainly not a stretch to think he can't do that in the pros as well. Let's not forget Tom Brady, or to a lesser extent Aaron Rodgers. Both did not have a particularly impressive arm coming out of college, and in Rodgers regard he had to correct his throwing motion -- he held the ball too high coming out of a snap at Cal, limiting his range of motion on his throws thus not delivering a particularly impressive ball. He corrected that in the pros and now he has one of the best arms in the league.

What I really wanted to know from you is just by watching him so far this year, how has he looked in 2009 compared to 2008. Getting better? Or much of the same?

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Old 10-13-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Bradford cant be expected to put up numbers like he did last year having been injurred and playing behind basically a new offensive line. Still think he's the best WCO type out there and would make sense playing in the heartland for a team like the St. Louis Rams.
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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What I really wanted to know from you is just by watching him so far this year, how has he looked in 2009 compared to 2008. Getting better? Or much of the same?
I saw very little that makes me think anything has changed, but I'll let you guess how much stock I put into him throwing for 300-and-whatever-yards against Baylor. My next reply should answer your question.

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Bradford cant be expected to put up numbers like he did last year having been injurred and playing behind basically a new offensive line. Still think he's the best WCO type out there and would make sense playing in the heartland for a team like the St. Louis Rams.
Don't take this wrong way, but if you give two ******* shits about Sam Bradford' numbers at the end of the year, then you have no idea what to look for in an NFL QB prospect. His numbers, no matter how good or bad, are entirely worthless. New offensive line? So what? Stafford had a bunch of freshman and sophomores. You should be happy to see him get pressure. You want to see how he handles it. Lets see him get hit a few times. Lets see how his mechanics change, his footwork... Matt Ryan had no talent around him... he made BC a very good offensive team. That's the mark of a great QB.




Irish homer (not gonna spell your name out), I think Clausen is overrated. If you want me to compare him to Bradford, then there's no comparison. He's ten times better, ten times. That is a great throw, but it's not really the same as the throw I pointed out with Stafford to Massaquoi. It was a very good throw. The level of difficulty? Fairly high, but it was single coverage... no safety help... staring him down... never even bothered looking off a safety since he didn't have to... it's a throw that he should make if he's as good as people say he is. I've seen JaMarcus Russell make that throw more times than I could count at LSU. What was Russell' biggest problem? Staring down receivers.

EDIT: I just watched that again and I missed the CB blitz the first time around... that being the reason why he stared left the whole way. From that angle, I can't see where the safety was positioned before the snap, but, like I said, it is a great throw. It is nothing like the throw Stafford made in that highlight... absolutely nothing like it.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Not a fan of Bradford as a pro QB at all to be honest, but you can't expect honest discussion with such a biased topic title.
+1

I'm kind of neutral on Bradford, but any attempt at an honest discussion of Bradford's pros/cons as a future NFL QB are skewed by the thread title, IMO.

Bradford sux?? Come on now...
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