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Old 10-13-2009, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm a complete amateur and no one should ever take what I say seriously, especially when it comes to QBs.

I've already said a lot in this thread (every time it's been brought back from the dead). I don't hate Bradford. The arm strength, I think, is good enough - not great, but good enough. What I hated then, and still hate, is his footwork. I see the guy throw flatfooted far too often. He's improved, but he still does it. I think that explains his somewhat inconsistent arm strength - sometimes gets his hips into the throw, sometimes he just doesn't do it.

And I still contend that he needs a better sense of the pocket. I brought up the WVU game before - I know that was ages ago, and he's improved greatly. But it doesn't seem to be second nature to him, that instinct.

Again, complete amateur, don't listen to me. I thought Matt Ryan was a big bust risk. Shows you what I know.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:08 PM    (permalink
Geason Noceur
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Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
I would like BigBanger to analyze and assess Sam Bradford from these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0k8DqFOZMg

Quick (and somewhat amateurish) impressions:

Sam looks pretty darn impressive for someone who had a significant shoulder injury. His arm strength seems to be inconsistent at some points during the highlights, so that could be a cause for concern. At 1:12 (although he is flushed from the pocket) and at 1:52 are where his arm looks just average. Then again, he did throw the ball forty-nine times and he still had some zip on his passes towards the end of the game. I would say his arm was above-average on the day which should bode well moving forward as he continues to recover.

BigBanger said that Bradford stares down his targets. On some occasions he does still stare down his receiver, but there is noticeable improvement in this regard. At 0:53, Sam does a nice job of looking up field before quickly turning to the sideline and delivering the ball. Arm strength is just okay, but he places the ball away from the defender giving his receiver the best chance of making the play. At 3:19 (one of his best throws), he looks right before quickly turning left and delivering a strike to his receiver. No hesitation on his part as he quickly turns and throws to his receiver. The fact that he is making strides in this area really has me excited.

Best pass:

4:27. Shows good feel for the pressure before rolling out and hitting his receiver on a comeback route at the sideline. Arm strength looks good, quick release, and shows good mobility rolling out with a nice fluid throw. This pass impresses me because it is essential for the WCO the Rams are using.

Worst pass:

1:52. This pass is one that makes me uneasy. Not only does he throw it with no zip, he also waits until his receiver gets open for a full second before delivering the ball. He should be able to throw the ball just before the receiver makes his break. That is the sign of a great quarterback.

BigBanger, I know you said you don't like using highlights as a means for evaluation, but I would like to know whether or not you see improvements based on Bradford from 2008 to 2009. I want the Rams to get the right QB in April so every input and analysis I read is critical.
Not trying to bash Bradford, but the guy has not been challenged very much at OU. From what I can tell from that highlight video, the guy has good time to throw (What is he going to do if he gets taken high in the draft by a team with a crappy Oline?). He's rarely asked to make difficult throws, much less difficult pro-style throws with pressure on his face. Very few of his throws are on the air for more than 15 yards, and his WRs get a lot of YAC. He's mostly out of the shotgun, and when he's not it's too hand the ball off. In the OU games that I've watched, he doesn't make any decisions at the LOS. He always looks to the sideline to make the smallest change. In addition to that, OU's running game looks dominant. Bradford has a lot of help at OU. Put all of that together and add injury prone to the list and things start looking questionable to me.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geason Noceur View Post
Not trying to bash Bradford, but the guy has not been challenged very much at OU. From what I can tell from that highlight video, the guy has good time to throw (What is he going to do if he gets taken high in the draft by a team with a crappy Oline?). He's rarely asked to make difficult throws, much less difficult pro-style throws with pressure on his face. Very few of his throws are on the air for more than 15 yards, and his WRs get a lot of YAC. He's mostly out of the shotgun, and when he's not it's too hand the ball off. In the OU games that I've watched, he doesn't make any decisions at the LOS. He always looks to the sideline to make the smallest change. In addition to that, OU's running game looks dominant. Bradford has a lot of help at OU. Put all of that together and add injury prone to the list and things start looking questionable to me.
You could probably say the same thing about Jimmy Clausen who doesnt throw deep that much and when he does he lobs the ball up for grabs.

As for Bradford being injury prone he had the seperated shoulder, how does that translate to injury prone?
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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+1

I'm kind of neutral on Bradford, but any attempt at an honest discussion of Bradford's pros/cons as a future NFL QB are skewed by the thread title, IMO.

Bradford sux?? Come on now...
Why is my opinion skewed? If I said Andre Woodson was a 6th round pick two games into his senior season (when everyone had him as a potential top 10 pick), and I made a post saying he sucked, then went into detail describing why I felt he sucked, would you think my opinion was skewed?

I only ask because I did exactly that during his senior year, and I got the same type responses I got in this thread.

If you think he's a top 10 player, I think your opinion is skewed, because I don't see a single thing that would make someone think that. I haven't come across a single person that could give me a reason for them liking him so much.


These are the great things said about Sam Bradford in this thread:

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I liked that youtube clip because it showed that Bradford didn't exclusively play out of ther shotgun.
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Bradford is a QB who processes info on the field quickly and gets rid of the ball, he's not playing in one or two read system. I've always liked how he spreads the ball to all his receivers, which tells me he has great vision for the entire field.
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You make some valid points but overall the positives far outweigh the negatives.
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He is a pinpoint passer and is sick accuracy-wise compared to this year's #1 pick Matthew Stafford.
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His accuracy redeems him as a prospect in my eyes.
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I love how people bring up Bradford's game against Florida as a knock against him. Stafford played 10 times worse than Bradford against Florida.
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As for your criticism that he dumps off too much, the Colts throw to their RBs in the flats a lot, and the Patriots run a ton of WR screens, does that make Peyton Manning and Tom Brady terrible QBs?
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What's wrong with a 6'4 220 QB with pinpoint accuracy thats extremely poised under pressure? Sam Bradford is a great QB, he's smart, knows how to manage a game, plays cool, and can make any throw he wants to.
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Mike Teel> Matt Stafford>BigBanger
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I'd take him to run a WCO.
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Against Texas he had no time at all. He had a great game anyway and showed great mobility.
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He's not in a one or 2 read system at Oklahoma, the kid has an uncanny abilitiy to survey the whole field quickly and get rid of the ball. Because he's able to make his reads so swiftly, it may look like it's a system with minimum reads, but Bradford chooses receivers based on coverage and patterns run.
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Who are you to say he only makes 2 reads a play??? I didn't know we had an OU coach in the house! He's better than McCoy, #2 behind Tebow, because he has great accuracy, great size for a QB, he's extremely efficient, HE KNOWS HIS OFFENSE, doesn't make silly mistakes, and throws a hella tight spiral. Stop trying to bash a guy who consistently wins and makes good throws.
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NFL coaches get paid to develop these guys into stars.
So to say Bradford sucks, is ********, he's a college star.
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This topic sucks. The only real knock that scouts are worried about is that Bradford does not get touched when he drops back. Everything has been a little too easy for him. His jersey goes unwashed for weeks.
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If big XII defenses are so terrible why did UF score 24 points only? In case you don't know, that's lower than they scored against EVERY SEC defense. So I don't want to hear the the conference knock on Bradford.

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I am a big fan of Sam Bradford. I look at him as an elite pro prospect on par with Stafford and Sanchez, or even better. He is in no way a finished product at this point, but I really like what he has done in two years and I think he is ahead of where Matt Stafford was after 2 years of starting experience. Bradford showed incredible progression from year one to year two. He also showed signifigantly improved arm strength, anticipation, and offensive understanding in his second year. Bradford's body continues to fill out and I am looking forward to see the progression he has made this offseason, and if he continues to improve at this pace I think he is the best player in this draft class.

His mechanics are somewhat unorthodox and he does not have a cannon, but I love that the ball gets where it needs to go consistently and accurately. He takes the ball from under center far more than other spread option QB's. His footwork and athletic ability are terribly underrated. I also like how he played through the hand injury and subsequent surgery. He wore a cast in his last two games and played incredibly.

As a leader, Bradford has let it happen naturally and IMO it became clear that the OU team looked to him as their unquestioned leader as the year went on. He is soft spoken, but comes off in interviews as confident, extremely intelligent, and thoughtful, while remaining humble. He is focused on the team and the programs success.

Like I said, if he continues his progression, I think he is the elite prospect in this draft. While I see that there will be a lot of doubters and detractors, I am clearly in Bradford's corner... and I believe he will take his game to an elite NFL prospect level as the season unfolds.
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I don't think Bradford currently or will in the future suck.

I don't think he is all-pro material at all, but a career Matt Shaub type QB is very respectful IMO and I think that's what Bradford ends up being.
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I don't understand why people say Bradford's arm strength is questionable. He isn't JaMarcus Russell in terms of arm strength but he certainly is not Chad Pennington, even pre-injury Pennington. On a scale of 1-10, 5 being average, Bradford's arm strength is probably about an 8.
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He's gonna be the Rams first round pick next year. count it
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Bradford has pinpoint accuracy and decent arm strength while someone like Matthew Stafford had average accuracy and elite arm strength.
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Two, Bradford is a great QB prospect IMO. He has good size, has a decent arm, has great accuracy and good mobility. He had a lot of incompletions due to dropped passes, plus some interceptions were due to the receiver dropping the pass and causing the defender to come down with it.

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I wish I sucked as bad as him !! He's gonna sign a sweet deal and have a nice pro career. He may not have the strongest arm but he has intangibles that will make him a winner
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He actually can throw an accurate ball on those medium to deep passes.
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Sam's arm won't be a question this year. Dude bulked up.
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If Sam Bradford took next year off he would still be at least a second round pick. The kid isn't perfect don't get me wrong, but he has a skill set that is better than many starting NFL QBs.
I actually re-watched the BCS game against Florida and their fantastic defense on HULU. If you are going to tell me that Bradford didn't impress you than I have to question your evaluation skills.
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I'm a big fan of Sam Bradford. I think at this point his positives outweigh his negatives.
Now, if there was some reasoning or evidence...
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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Old 10-13-2009, 07:24 PM    (permalink
Malaka
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Why is my opinion skewed? If I said Andre Woodson was a 6th round pick two games into his senior season (when everyone had him as a potential top 10 pick), and I made a post saying he sucked, then went into detail describing why I felt he sucked, would you think my opinion was skewed?

I only ask because I did exactly that during his senior year, and I got the same type responses I got in this thread.

If you think he's a top 10 player, I think your opinion is skewed, because I don't see a single thing that would make someone think that. I haven't come across a single person that could give me a reason for them liking him so much.


These are the great things said about Sam Bradford in this thread:

























































Now, if there was some reasoning or evidence...
Where's your proof? All I can say is Bradford looked like a top 10 pick coming off his injury, go watch the game. His release was lightning quick, he moved well in the pocket, made a couple of big throws, and looked very accurate.

Now do I think Bradford is the best QB in the draft? No... I like Jake Locker... but I do think Bradford is a top 15 pick.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
Geason Noceur
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You could probably say the same thing about Jimmy Clausen who doesnt throw deep that much and when he does he lobs the ball up for grabs.

As for Bradford being injury prone he had the seperated shoulder, how does that translate to injury prone?
Is not just the shoulder. He's been injured before.

Concussion
Left hand
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Big Banger, I never said anything about where Bradford should/would be picked in the draft, my only point was to say that the term 'sucks' is a very daming indictment of a player.

It implies IMO he will amount to nothing in the NFL and lacks the necesary skills to play in the pros.

Look, I thought Ryan was WAY overrated and that Sanchez would bust. I wanted Leaf over Manning. I've also had opinions about players that were on the money too, like anyone else who tries to predict how college players will succeed in the pros.

My point is, you make a strong case against Bradford, however, because he rarely has faced much adversity in the pocket playing at OU, and since the scheme he plays in has yet to produce a top flight NFL QB, there are legitimate question marks about what kind of player Bradford ultimately will become.

Still, I'd take a chance on him if I needed a QB in the 1st. Bradford brings skills to the table that can't be coached, his accuracy at times is otherworldly, he throws a very catchable ball, he's a better athlete than many give him credit for, I think he sees the field well, recognizes his playmakers and gets the ball to them.

We'll know for certain in a couple years, but I still believe Bradford will develop into a franchise QB.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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Still, I'd take a chance on him if I needed a QB in the 1st. Bradford brings skills to the table that can't be coached, his accuracy at times is otherworldly, he throws a very catchable ball, he's a better athlete than many give him credit for, I think he sees the field well, recognizes his playmakers and gets the ball to them.
Taking chances is in the first round leads to...

Vince Young type careers... Alex Smith type careers... JaMarcus Russell type careers... I'm sure you get my point. Those guys had talent, but they also had question marks that should have left enough doubt in the minds of the teams drafting them, to let them pass, but because they have talent and play the QB position, you get their result. If I'm going to fork out millions of dollars to a franchise QB, I'm not wanting many doubts or major concerns. I had few doubts about Stafford, Sanchez, Ryan, and only one doubt about Flacco from the two games I seen him play... level of competition and how long it would take to adjust to the NFL... apparently it didn't take long, but I had no problem with him going as high as he did. In 07 I thought Henne had the most potential of any QB and I saw him as one of those rare, late first rounder QB prospects (I also had him in my preseason top 10, so I was higher on him than most to begin with).

I look at Bradford and I'm left with so many question marks in his game that it builds so much doubt, that I couldn't even comprehend taking him high in the draft.
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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Old 10-14-2009, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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He's coming from a school that has produced some huge numbers at his position, but ZERO NFL talent. The pedigree is a major concern.
That's another thing. BigBanger, you say that Oklahoma's inability to produce a top flight QB (unless you count Aikman) is another reason we should be scared about Bradford. That didn't stop you from liking Stafford, whose school hasn't produced many top QBs either besides Fran Tarkenton. They have actually produced more busts in recent years (David Greene, Quincy Carter). So, you're inconsistent with your criticism there. It only takes one to buck the trend.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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That's another thing. BigBanger, you say that Oklahoma's inability to produce a top flight QB (unless you count Aikman) is another reason we should be scared about Bradford. That didn't stop you from liking Stafford, whose school hasn't produced many top QBs either besides Fran Tarkenton. They have actually produced more busts in recent years (David Greene, Quincy Carter). So, you're inconsistent with your criticism there. It only takes one to buck the trend.
I was refereeing the Stoops era, similar to Urben Myers system. You think Tebow is going to go high in the draft coming out of that system? How about this years 5,000 yards passing QB at Texas Tech? Do you think I'm going to even waste my time watching whoever that guy may be? No. Why? Track record. The entire Big 12 and Pac-10 is just awful... Locker and the freshman QB at USC... right now that's the only hope for a starting NFL QB... I see Locker as a rare, late first round draft pick... for 11 Draft, but he's got a long way to go before he gets there.

Quincy Carter was garbage. David Greene was hardly a starting caliber QB in college. They weren't considered starting NFL QBs.

I'm just showing all the aspects of Sam Bradford that forces doubt into my mind and how it effects his draft status. Knowing how successful Jason White was in college, and for him to not even get a sniff of the NFL? I'm not going to just ignore that. It's just something to consider. If that's all I had, just the Jason White cloud hanging over his head, then that's nothing and not something I'd even bring up. I guess Stafford applies here... I watched Stafford and I was so floored by his potential that the last thing I was thinking about was the success of David Greene and Quincy Carter at the NFL level... two guys I never even took seriously in college as NFL prospects to begin with, but...

Like I've said, Sam Bradford could end up being a great NFL QB... I have so many question marks, and major question marks regarding his system and NFL caliber throws, that it makes me drop his value (greatly). I don't treat him any different than any other QB I'll analyze this year. Why should I? Because people think he's a future top 10 pick? People are ******* wrong, especially this time of year and especially about QBs. I'm sorry, but even Scott Wright had major busts in his top 10 overall, especially at the QB position, guys that I said I wouldn't think about touching until round 2 or 3 at the earliest, and some guys in round 4 or 5. Scouts, for whatever reason, wont go against the grain in a major way. They'll call JaMarcus Russell a flawed prospect with holes in his game, but they'll still list them in their top 10... it makes no sense. They'll talk about these fantastic flaws in their game that would knock any other QB at a DII school into undrafted territory, but due to hype and big name, successful college, they stay high in draft boards.

I have a very strict criteria that I stick with when gauging NFL prospects at the QB position. When you see Vince Young, it is extremely tempting to put him high on your board since he was such a great college player, but how many of those prospects translate to the NFL? The track record is awful. All the QBs I've liked over the last five years came out of NFL type systems, completed a high level of difficulty on their throws by fitting balls into tight windows and tight coverage, had a top flight NFL arm strength (exception-- Leinart), had a lot of starting experience (exception-- Mark Sanchez), had good or greatly improved their mechanics (showing their dedication to their craft and desire to get better), are 6'2'' or better, and are guys that made players around them better. That's what I'm looking for. I keep it simple. Stats, yards and competition % means nothing. Thats for the uneducated. I'd rather see a guy throwing balls into tight windows and completing 58-62% of his passes compared to a guy throwing to wide open targets and completing 70-75% of his passes.

Does Bradford make the guys around him better? I think that system makes everyone look better than they are, Bradford included. Trent Williams is the only legit NFL, starting caliber player on that offense (He's overrated and a RT at the next level, but he's a legit starting caliber prospect), but that offense can dominate college defenses. Why? Scheme. The most underrated and overlooked aspect in all of sports... coaching... a great coached team can dominate a talent heavy team. Scheme, scheme, scheme.

I have a rep for bashing a ton of highly esteemed college QB prospects, and if I'm on this site, doing this thing long enough, you'll start to see that cause I'll make threads about them and bash the hell out of them. I counteract the overhype they undeservedly get. The thing you'll notice... I bring up the same glaring question marks... not an NFL system, not making NFL reads/throws, doesn't have an NFL arm or size, ect. It actually becomes quite easy.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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The thing that bothers me with Bradford is he only makes 1 or 2 reads. I cant remember him starting on one side of the field and coming back to the other. His system really doesnt require him to do it though, so Im not saying he cant. Arm Strength looks NFL caliber, release is NFL caliber and accuracy is great but I think he tends to stare down guys JMO. BTW Big Banger Jason White got a shot with the Titans but if I recall correctly his knees or his shoulder gave out and he had to retire.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Bradford sucks as a prospect, but I don't think OU's system prepares him much for the NFL.

Tebow on the other hand will fail miserably.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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BTW, Jason White didn't make the jump from college to the pros because both his knees were basically shot, it had less to do with his football acumen or physical tools.

And OU wins, yes, because of great coaching and schemes. But also because they bring in year after year top 10 recruiting classes. I haven't seen the Sooners play an entire game this year, but IMO Bradford and Trent Williams aren't the only potential NFL starters on that offense.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Bradford sucks as a prospect, but I don't think OU's system prepares him much for the NFL.

Tebow on the other hand will fail miserably.
The thing with Tebow and Bradford is that if they both hope to become something, they are going to have to sit and learn for a while.

Do you take long term projects THAT high in the draft, and if you do, is Sam Bradford really offering the type of upside to dish out that type of money and time invested?

I don't think he is, I think if a guy doesn't have elite physical tools, he better be ready to come in and play right away like Matt Ryan.

You can find Sam Bradford's later on in plenty of drafts, instead of spending a high pick on him.

He has never shown me "otherworldly" accuracy.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I have a very strict criteria that I stick with when gauging NFL prospects at the QB position. When you see Vince Young, it is extremely tempting to put him high on your board since he was such a great college player, but how many of those prospects translate to the NFL? The track record is awful. All the QBs I've liked over the last five years came out of NFL type systems, completed a high level of difficulty on their throws by fitting balls into tight windows and tight coverage, had a top flight NFL arm strength (exception-- Leinart), had a lot of starting experience (exception-- Mark Sanchez), had good or greatly improved their mechanics (showing their dedication to their craft and desire to get better), are 6'2'' or better, and are guys that made players around them better. That's what I'm looking for. I keep it simple.
Why were you so high on Philip Rivers then? You said he was one of the best prospects you've seen...did you not have questions about his throwing motion, arm strength, etc. ?

And all I can gather from all of this is that you definitely wouldn't have been high on Drew Brees. Shorter than 6'2, comes from a spread offense, questionable arm strength. Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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The thing with Tebow and Bradford is that if they both hope to become something, they are going to have to sit and learn for a while.

I could see Bradford starting from day one for the Rams

Do you take long term projects THAT high in the draft, and if you do, is Sam Bradford really offering the type of upside to dish out that type of money and time invested?

I don't think he is, I think if a guy doesn't have elite physical tools, he better be ready to come in and play right away like Matt Ryan.

You can find Sam Bradford's later on in plenty of drafts, instead of spending a high pick on him.

Name a few.

He has never shown me "otherworldly" accuracy.
70% his 1st year, 68% his 2nd.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Why were you so high on Philip Rivers then? You said he was one of the best prospects you've seen...did you not have questions about his throwing motion, arm strength, etc. ?

And all I can gather from all of this is that you definitely wouldn't have been high on Drew Brees. Shorter than 6'2, comes from a spread offense, questionable arm strength. Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.
Brees' name always comes up, but you also have to remember he is an exception. Very few QBs start in the NFL and are top 15 caliber QBs that are that short, but if I'm going to call a QB elite, he's got to have a lot... just like any other prospect. I don't have a problem with Purdue' system at all, I think its capable of producing NFL QBs. Boston College used had a great spread offense (Jay Cutler at Vandy... same thing), but it's much different than the one used in Oklahoma. Those are NFL type spread offenses. The spread the Longhorns, Missouri Tigers, Sooners used is not implemented in the NFL. Matt Ryan came out of a great spread offense his senior year (some really nice schemes) and I thought he was a fantastic QB prospect. Ryan attempted and completed some highly difficult throws, deep down field on a routine basis. Bradford throws dump off passes... you have a vertical spread (BC) and short spread (OU)... the vertical routes used in OU's scheme are designed to stretch the field vertically while the natural spread (horizontal) creates open room (large gaping pockets in the defense) for crossing patterns, flat routes, comebacks, out patterns, and screens to the RBs and TEs. You don't see Bradford attempt many deep throws 30 yards down field, because the deep patterns are usually (majority of the time) designed to do nothing more than keep those safeties back so the receivers can work underneath (Which spreads the defense out down field, as well as the across the field). You should be able to notice this with the naked eye... that is, Bradford attempting a great majority of short passes... which asks Bradford to do what with the safeties? Nothing, he doesn't even have to read or care where the safeties are after the snap (which wont happen in the NFL, you can trust me on that). The scheme takes the safeties out, he doesn't even have to worry about the safeties after the snap, he checks before the snap to see if they're deep, if they are, he knows the underneath stuff is going to be open, then he has to look to whatever side of the field has the most options... you get three guys on one side, usually matched up against 2 defenders, then you got a guy that's going to be uncovered and wide open, or you throw it out to the RB (who will be uncovered or covered by the MIKE LB). They have designs to run vertical patterns with multiple receivers on the same side of the field, just to get all the defenders deep (the CBs and Ss), then they sneak a RB out of the backfield and dump it off... all the RB has to do is beat a LB (and it takes nothing more than having better speed), then there's open field to run while the DBs are in coverage with their heads turned. That is a one read system. And that's what he does at least 50% of the time, at least.


Ryan' spread would consist of a 9 route one side of the field with the X and a deep post with the slot to the same side (2 WRs to his right)... Bradford doesn't attempt these throws (which are longer and force the QB to either hold the safety in the middle, then throw it to the outside or read the safety (who could double the outside WR) and hit the post out of the slot... and on the other side you could have an in-pattern with another WR working out of the other slot on his left, which is designed in sucking the LBs up to create a throwing lane for the slot receiver on the other side of the field... If the LBs drop and get deep enough to take away the post out of the slot to his right, then he would hit the in route (his third read), slot receiver to his left, for a 10-15 yard gain... see the difference? That's three-reads. He starts reading the safeties, depending on how they play, it dictates where the ball is going to go, if the safety shifts to a Cover 2 and jumps outside taking away the deep ball on the outside, then he has the post out of the slot, but if the LBs drop into that deep cover 2 (and he'll know it's a cover 2 if the safeties drop, if they don't, then it's man coverage), then he'll come off the slot to his right, and look for the guy coming across the middle on the square-in (who should be single covered). He has three options... and he has the arm and football IQ (ability to read that defense) and get the ball to the guy who has the single coverage. That's not even a complex read in the NFL... and that takes a split second to go from option 1, to option 2, to option 3. If Bradford did that, then I'd toot his horn for it, but he doesn't.


That, in a nutshell, is the difference between a guy like Sam Bradford and a guy like Matt Ryan.

That's as good and as detailed example I can give you, trying to explain the system and why it holds Bradford back. If you still think I'm biased, or flat wrong after this post, or if your curious why I have a 6'2'' limit or whatever about QB prospects... then, I'm done debating this. You can either take it for a grain of salt, or you can read what I just wrote and see if it makes sense or see if it applies to Sam Bradford on your own. I don't want to hear your opinion on the system or that I'm wrong about OU's system, or any of that ****. You don't even have to respond because I'm done with it. I spent enough time talking about the system, if you wanna disagree with that, then be my guest, but I don't care. I gave you some good information right there and that's probably the first time you've ever heard someone break down the system in that manner with that much detail on some message board. One scheme dictates what the defense can do (OU) and the other scheme is dictated by how the defense REACTS to the offensive patterns, and then the QB, in turn, REACTS to the defense. To break that down even more... one QB is reading the defense and one isn't.

When he throws for 350 yards against Texas next week, I wont give a ****. He wont make more than two NFL throws in that entire game and he'll throw it 50 times. If you wanna come back here and talk about his completion percentage and all that ****, I'll just copy and paste this entire post as my response.

Philip Rivers has an NFL arm. Sam Bradford is not close to Rivers. Rivers is also ten times more accurate than Bradford ever was. Rivers dominated and played huge in big games. Had tons of experience. I don't care about throwing motion. He looked awkward but he always set his feet and delivered the ball with pin point accuracy. I don't even know why I'm sitting here explaining a guy I was right about. If you think Rivers had a weak or something, then you should just forget watching QBs. I'm done talking about NFL QBs who haven't been in college for 5 years.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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wow. That was amazing lol
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Completely agree about Bradford having too many question marks.. I don't see a qb who can threaten all levels of the field as a passer. Not only that but he doesn't have the athleticism to improvise or anything that makes him a difference maker. IMO This guy doesn't even come close to being a top 5 player in this draft. His accuracy is only good short his arm strength is questionable and more along the lines of Chad Pennington or Jeff Garcia. He has no experience in a pro offense and was surrounded by tons of talent. I could see him turning out like Brian Brohm and being cut after his 2nd NFL camp. People comparing this guy to Phillip Rivers are crazy. I'll never forget his game at Ohio State when he was cheered off in a losing effort. I absolutely loved that guy coming out.

The only guy I can stick my neck out for right now, who i believe will be a franchise qb is Jake Locker. I see a complete package when I watch. Arm strength, accuracy (WR's drop a ton of passes), pocket presence, decision making, anticipation and intangibles. The guy is carrying his team every week. Without him there winless for another season. He has Donavan McNabb type talent and he's just starting to touch his potential. Like him as much as Sanchez long term.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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70% his 1st year, 68% his 2nd.
Colt McCoy threw for 77% or something, is he the most accurate QB to ever play the game of football?
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Bradford's arms strength is comparable to Pennington, ( arguably the weakest arm in the pros), or Garcia, (who's almost 40??).

And Romo, you think Bradford gets cut by the end of his 2nd year in the NFL?

Bradford's not athletic??

This hate for Super Sam is getting way outside the bounds of reality. IMO, Bradford is the most capable spread QB to make the transition to a pro set offense, simply because the kid has the smarts, understanding of the position, competitiveness, and enough physical tools to make the jump.

Honestly, I don't think the Rivers comparisions are that far off, in that I think he could eventually develop into that type of player, but he will need time, and I wouldn't want to bring him into a situation next year where he would be required to start the 1st game of the season.

Bottom line, Stoops' offense just looks 'different' when Bradford is behind center. I really don't know how else to explain it, but suffice to say I think too many here are short-selling Bradford by assuming he's a system QB.

This isn't the second coming of Alex Smith by a mile.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy threw for 77% or something, is he the most accurate QB to ever play the game of football?
I'm sure he isnt but how accurate do you want the guy to be? when you factor in occasional drops, bad routes and occasional pressure 70% is outstanding. He may have faults, accuracy isnt one of them.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Bradford's arms strength is comparable to Pennington, ( arguably the weakest arm in the pros), or Garcia, (who's almost 40??).

And Romo, you think Bradford gets cut by the end of his 2nd year in the NFL?

Bradford's not athletic??

This hate for Super Sam is getting way outside the bounds of reality. IMO, Bradford is the most capable spread QB to make the transition to a pro set offense, simply because the kid has the smarts, understanding of the position, competitiveness, and enough physical tools to make the jump.

Honestly, I don't think the Rivers comparisions are that far off, in that I think he could eventually develop into that type of player, but he will need time, and I wouldn't want to bring him into a situation next year where he would be required to start the 1st game of the season.

Bottom line, Stoops' offense just looks 'different' when Bradford is behind center. I really don't know how else to explain it, but suffice to say I think too many here are short-selling Bradford by assuming he's a system QB.

This isn't the second coming of Alex Smith by a mile.
Did you just call him "Super Sam"?

And people here are suprised when these kids are disliked by some fans. Some people put players in pedestals that they don't deserve.
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford is a 'super' college QB, the greatest passing QB, I believe, to ever play at OU.

The question remains if Bradford has it in him to be an equally sublime QB in the pros.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Dude just through for a large number of yards and 1 TD, wtf?
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