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Old 05-28-2009, 09:33 AM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
Caddy Williams, I want to see him put up. Gotta fight the injury bug man.

Something I noticed, college Rbs that come out from a 2 rb system, seem to get injured more when they take on NFL load of carries. Unless they are splitting the carries then they can delay the injury bug.

Examples: Barber, Maroney, Brown, Caddy, few other names that slip my mind.

Also Dwayne Jarrett, come on man. Its typical that big USC WRs suck in the NFL. Lets gather some more data, before making this decision, but its looking that way. We'll see how Patrick Turner turns out in 3 years.
Yeah the only healthy running back for the Cowboys last season was Tashard Choice, who carried the load and then some for GT.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Uhhhh, what? They didn't just put him at safety last year, he started at safety his first 2 years and actually got benched for the majority of last season. I don't see how you think he's overrated, he's a bust who was benched and almost cut. It's hard to be overrated when your not rated very highly. Heck, you even say it in your own post "he was rumored to be trade bait but his has experienced such devaluation after his horrible 08 performance I don't think anyone wants him".

And your wrong about his weakness, pass coverage was not his problem. That was pretty much the only area where he did a decent job. He was a bad tackler and he never became the "big play" guy he was supposed to be, he was just invisible. As for this year, he'll have to actually start in order to prove anything and I don't know if that will be happening.
BTW I only listed 3 players who were the #1 picks of teams, & didn't list players who need to put up b/c they were injured, if so I would have listed Alex Smith 1st. 5 different OCs & 5 different offensive systems in 5 yrs. isn't good for any team & that directly impacted Vernon Davis as mentioned. About him, I think his reputation as not a team player hurt him more than his performance, if he had kept his mouth shut & not criticized the situation (Martzball underutilizing him, the HC change, etc) he wouldn't have been scapegoated by a new coach looking to make an example of an underachiever. And I'm not faulting Singletary for that, he had to regain the 9ers locker room that Nolan lost when he threw Smith under the bus to save his own hanging by a slender thread job. teh new 9ers HC accomplished that by dropping his pants & mooning them in unison, it got their attention.

Lots of new HCs would have cut Davis to establish their authority but Singletary didn't, he just bitchslapped him in the press, they say humiliation is the strongest weapon there is & that's right, it works. He was dissing Davis, now he's praising him this offseason, tear a superstar egomaniac player down, then rebuild him up, oldest coaching technique there is, my HS coaches did it weekly & it still works today.

Every Bay Area sports publication focused on Huff as a player not living up to the hype & had problems in coverage in the early 08 season, which was a goddamn jk. Their offense was even worse at times, I think they had 37 passing yds. all freaking day in one game, just humiliating.

Chaos & anarchy in the Raiders front office emanated from the axis of the nuke explosion between Kiffin & Al Davis & it showed up in all aspects of the team. The Raiders took the field every Sunday like convicts on a chain gang forced to do a thankless task, very very bad team morale, they were obviously the victims of the Kiffin-Davis power struggle drawing huge headlines in the press. It was especially obvious in the secondary where DeAngelo Hall was supposed to elevate them as the strength of the team & it wasn't. IMO, Hall was made an example b/c Cable wanted to exert his authority & stabilize the Oakland pirate ship on the verge of total mutiny from wk. to wk., Huff looked actually better in coverage than the overpaid Hall from what I saw but the FA took the release, you're right about Huff missing way too many tackles. It was aggravating & painful to watch the Raiders defense that Ryan had built up to a very good, underrated one blow game after game last September & October.

The disgruntled Raiders continued making headlines all season, Asomugha bitched about being their FP player again b/c he knew it was going to happen & didn't think he could get the $ the NFL's top-ranked CB should receive, Lechler loudly bitched about wanting out, even got punched in the face on the team plane returning from one of their many road losses by a 330-lb. DT, they retained him as the highest paid punter in the game but with an offense as bad as theirs they couldn't afford to lose him. Yeah they kept both of them at higher salaries but I don't think they were/are happy campers in silver & black, & you could say the same about most of the roster last yr.

Cable has stabilized things somewhat & the team finished strong last yr. upsetting several teams & beating Tampa in TB to knock them out of the playoffs. They look to be better on both sides of the ball this yr., but if the same bickering in the front office happens again there will be hell to pay with assts. & players released early like last yr. -- it's never Al Davis' fault in the Oakland dog & pony show. You're probably right about Huff struggling to start this yr too, he's on the thinnest ice of the 3 players I listed.

And those who mentioned Ochocinco, Maroney & Jason Campbell nailed it too, they definitely belong here.

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Old 05-28-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Some vikes fan probably already said Tavaris Jackson. Visanthe Shiancoe, Sidney Rice, Cedric Griffen. Just to name a few.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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I forgot that guy even existed. When I read the name Buster Davis I thought of the 3rd round cardinals LB that was released in the same year he was drafted a couple years ago. That shows how big of a bust the WR Davis is.

Does he ever get onto the field? When watching Charger games I never seen him.



Most of those guys are trash, no one expects anything from them. Good collection of RBs though, they should try out the wild cat with McFadden throwing.
Against the Jets last year he had 3 consecutive 1st downs on 3rd down and got everyone thinking maybe he turned the corner.

In a nutshell he doesn't play with nagging injuries which makes him tough to support. When Chambers went down this year, he was slated to start but apparently during pre-game warmups, minutes before a game, informed Norv that he didn't feel ready to go...Norv was so pissed at this little stunt that he de-activated him for a while, and later put him on the IR.

He's on his last chance basically. He's got good size, speed, hands, and supposedly even routes, but that's not all it takes to be an NFL wideout apparently. You gotta have heart too.

edit; in retrospect, probably not his last chance with Chambers and Jackson due to be FAs after 09. You never know what happens and it will probably be nice to have a guy who has at least been in the NFL ready to step in. This is of course still dependent on the guy showing something, anything, this year. He has to probably beat out Malcom Floyd too if he wants any serious playing time, not a super easy task.

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Old 05-28-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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For the Giants:

-Sinorice Moss: all the potential in the world to be a Wes Welker type of WR, but injuries and just a lack of production has really hurt him. He's too small, and it seems like he doesn't run many different kinds of patterns. Intelligence and work ethic could be issues. Ive all but given up on him. He'll probably get cut.

-Darcy Johnson: Dude supposedly has the potential to be better than Boss. Prove it. We drafted Travis Beckum and the 3rd TE spot is between you and a blocking TE. Prove your worth. I expect him to be solid but not spectacular, and get cut bc we just have too much depth to keep him.

-Guy Whimper: Solid backup swing tackle, but was drafted as a LT. We just drafted Beatty and youre in a contract year. Time to step up. I expect solid but not spectacular play, and will probably stay on the team and go somewhere else for more money next year.

-David Tyree: The greatest play in SB history was 2 years ago now. You can't live off of it anymore. I predict he stays as a special teams ace though, and bc Sinorice is useless freeing up a spot for him.

-Antonio Pierce: Youre one cheeseburger away from getting cut after this year fat ass.

-Aaron Ross: Great rookie year, poor sophomore year. From studying him, I expect more of his sophomore year than rookie year. He's a solid but not spectacular CB. He doesn't have the hips or top end speed to be great.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Donte Whitner - pretty good starter, defensive leader, but not a top-10 pick. He needs to be one of the best players on our defense. He dealt with injuries and had to be moved around last year, but he just hasn't gotten much better since his rookie year.

Trent Edwards - Sorry about the line. Now go show that you can be a franchise QB.

Every defensive end on the team
- Pick #11 just went to a pass rusher because nobody on the team can get to the QB. Schobel needs to be healthy and show that he can still play like one of the better ends in the conference. Kelsay needs to give an ounce of justification for his horrendous contract. These two are our starters and have huge contracts. Add in another big contract for the first round defensive end, something's got to give. Chris Ellis was a recent 3rd round pick who just had his role poached by somebody better. Ryan Denney will always be a good depth guy but he could find his role diminished with these young guys being worked in. Copeland Bryan had an impressive year at the low end of the depth chart, but he'll have to fight for his time.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Donte Whitner




can we see u make an interception? Heck, can i see u make a play on the field? at least a big hit maybe?
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vikes_29 View Post
Some vikes fan probably already said Tavaris Jackson. Visanthe Shiancoe, Sidney Rice, Cedric Griffen. Just to name a few.
Ryan Cook, I will hit that weak excuse of a man square in the jaw if necessary.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Tank Tyler to name a few.
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Roy E. Williams.

C'mon, shut all the haters up!
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Buffalo Bills

Donte Whitner - He guaranteed playoffs last year and that ended up being a dumb thing. He has 2 interceptions in 3 years. It's time for him to live up to his statements and warrant being chosen #8 overall.

John McCargo - The Bills spent a 2nd/3rd to move into the 1st for him. He's failed miserably so far. They attempted to trade him to the Colts last year for a 5th round pick. It would have gone through had he not failed his physical. He said he's been working real hard this offseason to get better, but shouldn't he have been the past 2? If he doesn't perform he'll be gone.

Aaron Schobel/Chris Kelsay/Ryan Denney - Can you please get to the quarterback? The main reason why the defense failed is because you could not create pressure.
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But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons

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Old 05-28-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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I didn't realize Whitner had come full circle and was a ridiculous reach again. I saw him play a few times and he seemed like a very nice safety, very much a blue chipper.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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It looks worse than it is when it's posted three times in a row.
He could definitely be better, though, and we're at the point where we're expecting and needing it.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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It looks worse than it is when it's posted three times in a row.
He could definitely be better, though, and we're at the point where we're expecting and needing it.
Much of it has to do with the lack of a pass-rush, which is essential to the cover-2.
If the defense gives the QB time in the pocket he'll be able to pick apart the defense with ease.

Hopefully with Maybin and Schobel back, the pass-rush will improve, causing Whitner to too.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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People forget that he's still 22 (23 in september) he's got plenty of time to mature and get right in the league.
there are many people who would disagree. You don't get freebies/potential love all your life. He his chances are now, and it will be an upward challenge the rest of the way.....
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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You can't really fault Whitner based on where he was drafted, he didn't draft himself. As a player, he needs to make more plays, its just that simple. He's a solid player, but he's nothign more until he makes some impact plays, which thus far he's failed to do.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Let me try to think of some for the Rams.

1. Marc Bulger- While I am still a big supporter of him, a huge rift in the fan base has developed over him. If he is good then he can prove that he is just fine and that no QB would be good on these past couple Rams teams. If he struggles again then it will have been three straight poor seasons.

2. Alex Barron- For the most part he would have to be classified as a disappointment, though I don't think he has been as bad as some others do. It's his contract year and h is being moved to LT, which most feel is his natural position. He needs to play better and severly cut down on the penalties.

3. Richie Incognito- Another polarizing player among Rams fans. Some feel that he an idiot, others feel he is just emotional. Some feel he is a plus player, others feel he is a minus player. Well, we'll see this year.

4. Tye Hill- He is probably on his last life with the Rams. He was solid his rookie season, seemed to get better his second season until getting hurt, and was absolutely horrid last year. I still think he could become something, but I'm in the minority.

5. Steven Jackson- As amazing as it may seem, some Rams fans have a problem with him. In my opinion it's because he isn't Marshall Faulk. I'm kidding about having to prove himself though, I mean get real idiotic small segment of Rams fans.
The top 4 of these I agree with. If we don't get a solid year from Bulger, we will be drafting in the top few again, and we will take a QB. I have never been a fan of Incognito, in my mind he has already shut up. Barron is a huge disappointment, and thats why we had to take Jason Smith. Hill needs to do something. And I know what u are saying about Jackson. Not just Rams fans, but moronic fans of the NFL who think they know what they are talking about. Without Steven Jackson, there are two 0-16 teams last season.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:52 AM    (permalink
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there are many people who would disagree. You don't get freebies/potential love all your life. He his chances are now, and it will be an upward challenge the rest of the way.....
They'd be wrong since very few people have properly followed his career.

At 20, he came into a complicated offense that lost it's QB in the fourth game of the season, he then had testaverde, a sophmore with no NFL starts and David Carr chucking passes. None of whom were much chop.

Last year he didn't exactly light up the score board, but with two backs and two receivers who had 4000 yards offense between them there weren't a lot of touches to a guy who was splitting time as the third receiver, not to mention the fact that Davidson's system is pretty heavy on passing to ends and backs.

Even so there were a number of games where he provided key blocks that sprung either Smitty or the backs on large gains and one or two games where his receptions, though nothing large on the stat sheet came up HUGE when necessary.

The guy doesn't need to be an all-pro, quietly last year Mushin Muhummad had 923 yards on 65 catches, so he doesn't need to even be a productive number two. All he has to do is continue doing what he's doing which is making grabs on third down as a slot guy until Moose moves on.

Jarrett isn't a starter, I don't understand why people are hating on the guy for doing nothing wrong but working hard since his second year began and doing everything asked of him.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't disagree on any particular trait...I feel like if Ryan were picked AHEAD of Peyton he would be the worst pick of allzz timez but oh well. Bygones will be bygones and all that. It brings me great joy to see him in trouble with the law.
Leaf vs Smith

I take smith as a bigger bust. Smith was picked higher, the 49ers actually pulled the trigger, (they could have just as easily gone rodgers) and there career stats are similar. Alex Smith had one year where he could almost be considered mediocre but in truth he was just below average. Also i think leaf was the better prospect of the two.... if we could draft them against each other not knowing they would both be collosal failures i'd take leaf.
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:06 AM    (permalink
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I forgot that guy even existed. When I read the name Buster Davis I thought of the 3rd round cardinals LB that was released in the same year he was drafted a couple years ago. That shows how big of a bust the WR Davis is.

Does he ever get onto the field? When watching Charger games I never seen him.



Most of those guys are trash, no one expects anything from them. Good collection of RBs though, they should try out the wild cat with McFadden throwing.
Hmm...

Zach Miller is already one of the most reliable receiving TEs in the AFC just two years into his career. If he's not a Pro Bowler within another two I'll be surprised. He's also more than solid as a blocker...

Their WRs are young and unproven, but there is some talent there if you look at the group. Chaz Schilens was a key factor in the Raiders "winning streak" at the end of the season. He deserved to get PT much sooner than he did. I don't expect much from DHB or Murphy, but I do think Schilens will turn a lot of heads. I expect him to end the year with somewhere around 50-60 receptions. If he can put up solid numbers, that will go a long way toward legitimizing the Raiders' offense.

JLH is solid, although I'm not a huge fan of his as a WR. He has to have a good year for me to consider him worth keeping around. So he and DHB are definitely guys that need to produce, or the passing offense will flounder. And really it won't be Russell's fault. He doesn't get nearly enough credit. He had a mediocre beginning to the 2008 season, but over the second half he put up quite good numbers, and was very consistent in doing so. Hopefully the Raiders can establish some consistency in the coaching/management, and then the current unit will be able to progress. They have made some positive changes to the line. Jamarcus is developing better than most people care to notice. They have a very good core of RBs who are poised to tear it up this season barring injuries. The WRs are young and bursting with potential. If they can tap into that, things could come together nicely for Oakland and you may be surprised by their offense this year.


My pick...

Manny Lawson: Hasn't had a chance to really show what he can do, but if he doesn't make an impact this season it may be time to consider looking for someone else. He has so much potential and he has done some good things with the Niners, but he hasn't been able to consistently provide the pass rush that is needed out of him. I believe he will step up this year and at the very least do what the team needs out of him, and possibly then some.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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For the Colts, Antoine Bethea.

He's in a contract year and after being a revelation early on, his play really tailed off last year. I hope he bounces back to his form in the Superbowl years, because if he doesn't he may be out the door.
I think the added bulk upfront will help Bethea most of anyone on the defense. Last year, there were times where the Colts had to play 9 in the box to stop the run, and when Sanders went down, he was asked at times to step into that role and become the run help, something he's not very good at. With the added bulk upfront, Bethea should be allowed to do what he does best this year: roam deep in coverage, be the last line of defense, and punish receivers who catch balls in his area.

I would say the put up or shut up player on the Colts is actually a unit, that being the OL. Last year their performance, especially in the running game, was extremely lackluster, but hopefully with an offseason of healing and maturing, they can come up with five guys who can stay healthy, gel, and get much closer to the type of consistency we saw in 06 than the utter chaos we saw in 08.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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They'd be wrong since very few people have properly followed his career.

At 20, he came into a complicated offense that lost it's QB in the fourth game of the season, he then had testaverde, a sophmore with no NFL starts and David Carr chucking passes. None of whom were much chop.

Last year he didn't exactly light up the score board, but with two backs and two receivers who had 4000 yards offense between them there weren't a lot of touches to a guy who was splitting time as the third receiver, not to mention the fact that Davidson's system is pretty heavy on passing to ends and backs.

Even so there were a number of games where he provided key blocks that sprung either Smitty or the backs on large gains and one or two games where his receptions, though nothing large on the stat sheet came up HUGE when necessary.

The guy doesn't need to be an all-pro, quietly last year Mushin Muhummad had 923 yards on 65 catches, so he doesn't need to even be a productive number two. All he has to do is continue doing what he's doing which is making grabs on third down as a slot guy until Moose moves on.

Jarrett isn't a starter, I don't understand why people are hating on the guy for doing nothing wrong but working hard since his second year began and doing everything asked of him.
Okay Blindside, i guess he's not in a must produce year. He can keep doing what he's doing, catching 16 passes in 2 years. The blocks will be sufficient (lets really focus on the positives here). I mean, the low catch numbers are due to the RBs, TE, and other WRs getting all the burn! He's been busting his ass and doing everything asked of him! I bold the statement that he worked hard all of last year, so 50% of his career so far, and all that is fine, maybe he needed that year, but doing everything you are asked to do isn't much of a factor if you really aren't being asked to contribute much and have a tough time seeing the field....those things say somethign too.

No one is really hating on the guy like you said, but if saying that this is a year in which he needs to make steps and contribute at least 30 catches is hating, then i guess so be it. He's entering his 3rd season, which is usually a big one for WRs. To this point, he has been below the average line for which young WRs have been judged, and has for at least half of his career (i'll take your word for it) been lazy and uninterested. Like it or lump it, you have a period like that and you are viewed in a less favourable light and you better do something to shed it. Making a solid block in the run game is great, you want that effort, but you want a WR who can block AND be a weapon/reliable option in the pass game.

I hope he makes it. He would be a great guy to replace Moose. I stand by my statement though. He has this season to show he can contribute to the team in the passing game or he has an upward battle the rest of the way. The thought process that 'he's young and developing' will be removed and replaced with 'this guy hasn't put it together in 3 years, we need to look at other possible options if he can't cut it'.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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if we could draft them against each other not knowing they would both be collosal failures i'd take leaf.

There are teams that would've drafted Ryan Leaf ahead of Peyton Manning.


Ryan Leaf --- 4 wins - 17 losses - 317-655 - 48.4% - 3666 yards - 14 TD - 36 Int - 65 Sacks
Alex Smith - 11 wins - 19 losses - 435-800 - 54.4% - 4679 yards - 19 TD - 31 Int - 81 Sacks
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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For the Raiders, three in particular - Russell, Huff, Walker

Also, for Dwayne Jarrett, it wouldn't shock me to see him hit 40-50 catches in what is now going to be his third season. There's too much hate going his way, he's not Mike Williams.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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For the Raiders, three in particular - Russell, Huff, Walker

Also, for Dwayne Jarrett, it wouldn't shock me to see him hit 40-50 catches in what is now going to be his third season. There's too much hate going his way, he's not Mike Williams.
I don't get saying its 'hate'. It is not 'hating' to say that this is potentially a make-or-break season for him. What he does this year will very well determine the direction he's going.....how is that hate? We can all just sit and say 'this is the year he's breaking out, no doubt', but that is not realistic. Saying this is a big season for him is not a stretch. Teams don't wait forever.

What does 'he's not Mike Williams' even mean?
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