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Old 08-05-2009, 11:12 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
A franchise QB should be able to put the team on his back when all else is failing and lead them to victory. Eli still hasn't proved that he can win without an elite WR and a fantastic running game.
Neither has Peyton technically. Who has? Brady thats about it. All winning QBs are surrounded by good players.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Outside of that four game stretch his play has not warranted a contract of this magnitude. I know "it's the going rate" but Eli isn't worth this kind of dough.
Eli Manning has made the playoffs every year he has started at qb. Only Peyton Manning can say the same over the past 4 years.

And lets not forget, Eli wasn't handed a great team. The Giants were godawful when he became our qb. He's a big reason why we've consistently made the playoffs.

Eli obviously won the SB, and was SB mvp.

He's established himself as a clutch qb already.

Forget numbers. Thats the problem with today's perception of players. We're so entrenched in fantasy football that we forget what really makes a franchise quarterback. Thats what I realized about Ben Roethlisberger. I used to think he was overrated, but I don't anymore. He's a winner, and he's clutch. Thats what a real franchise qb is all about.

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Yeah, the same SB run where your defense ******* ruined people.
I don't buy that. Eli isn't the first qb to have an great defense. The Steelers, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, they all have similar defenses. Only the Steelers sealed the deal out of those teams.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Every great QB has a big time WR so the point that Eli needs to prove he could do it without a #1 is a joke. Take Rice away from Montana and Young and see how they do.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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I don't buy that. Eli isn't the first qb to have an great defense. The Steelers, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, they all have similar defenses. Only the Steelers sealed the deal out of those teams.
And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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A franchise QB should be able to put the team on his back when all else is failing and lead them to victory. Eli still hasn't proved that he can win without an elite WR and a fantastic running game.
well, i think we can agree to disagree. what you just described to me is a stud, elite QB, possibly a HOF'er.

But then again, Eli's career is still young and the fact of the matter is, he hasn't had to do that very often. He's done it with great comebacks ala Denver a few years ago and that massive whacky comeback game against Philly as well. Eli's the face of the franchise and has won a Super Bowl and will be here a long time.To me, that's a franchise QB.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Every great QB has a big time WR so the point that Eli needs to prove he could do it without a #1 is a joke.
I'm sorry, but when you're the highest-paid player in the league, I expect you to be able to do things on your own. Who were the great WRs during Tom Brady's Super Bowl wins?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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well, i think we can agree to disagree. what you just described to me is a stud, elite QB, possibly a HOF'er.
Well, if you're making a guy the highest-paid player in a league with a bunch of overpaid players, shouldn't he be a stud, elite QB, HOFer?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.
but you can bet your butt when Rivers signs his new deal, it'll be higher than Eli's. that's how the NFL's economy is working right now.

and dont give me that, the Chargers have a very good D and freaking Tomlinson. they didn't win with him in his prime.

and you've got Westbrook and have had some of the better defenses I've seen in a while, the Eagles had their chance, and blew it in the super bowl.

people forget, we started Geoffery Pope against Dallas. I'm pretty sure he hasn't played a snap since that game during that run...
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but when you're the highest-paid player in the league, I expect you to be able to do things on your own. Who were the great WRs during Tom Brady's Super Bowl wins?
Yeah as Jughead said before Brady is probably the #1 exception. Besides that everyone has had a big name WR.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Well, if you're making a guy the highest-paid player in a league with a bunch of overpaid players, shouldn't he be a stud, elite QB, HOFer?
He shouldn't be the highest paid player in the league. I dont believe he should be, but, he won't be the highest paid player for long. In 2-4 years, this contract will just look average for young starting QB's. Rivers' and probably Cutler's deals will blow Eli's out of the water

but from the Giants standpoint, who cares? He got his money, we keep our QB. We keep our figurehead and we move on. He's the face of our franchise and honestly, I dont think Reese and Abrams give a damn if Eli's the highest paid or not, we got our guy who led the offense that got us a ring.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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but you can bet your butt when Rivers signs his new deal, it'll be higher than Eli's. that's how the NFL's economy is working right now.
And it will still be moronic.

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and dont give me that, the Chargers have a very good D and freaking Tomlinson. they didn't win with him in his prime.
The defense isn't as good as the Giants', and neither is the run game. Tomlinson's only one guy. Plus, who's SD's elite receiver?

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and you've got Westbrook and have had some of the better defenses I've seen in a while, the Eagles had their chance, and blew it in the super bowl.
Having Westbrook doesn't mean we run the ball. You know damn well that we don't run the ball.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.
If I recall McNabb was throwing up in the huddle in the 4th quarter. Instead of making the neccesary plays.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.
Where's this great running game you speak of? The one that was 24th in the league in yards per game in 2004? Don't let facts get in the way of a good time.

Donovan's done a hell of a lot more with average receivers than Eli has done with the same caliber of receivers. See second half of season, 2008.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.
What is this a mix and match now? Ok.. Give us Randy Moss, trade Gilbride, for Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron like Rivers and Ben had to groom them, and get rid of Tim Lewis and hired spags from the beginning and we could have won a lot more superbowls.. And I would like to build a time machine and get Jerry Rice in his prime.. Is that asking too much?

It is, what it is, no need to play let's pretend.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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What is this a mix and match now?
No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.
You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.
...with a less talented Eagles team.

Anyway, this discussion's going nowhere. Congrats on drastically overpaying for an average QB. We'll see how it works out.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.
It's not illustrating anything because it hasn't happened.. All this is showing is your annoyed for some godly reason and you're not making any sense on this specific issue.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.
Less talented offensive Pats team, but a more talented defensive Pats team.

Eli, IMO, is not a top 5 QB, but to say he isn't good is going overboard. His contract is ridiculous now, especially when comparing him to other players at his position, but that is how the contracts in the NFL are going. Until there is a rookie scale and/or a halt in the ever rising salary cap, it will continue on this way, or unless there is a max contract like in the NBA.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Less talented offensive Pats team, but a more talented defensive Pats team.

Eli, IMO, is not a top 5 QB, but to say he isn't good is going overboard. His contract is ridiculous now, especially when comparing him to other players at his position, but that is how the contracts in the NFL are going. Until there is a rookie scale and/or a halt in the ever rising salary cap, it will continue on this way, or unless there is a max contract like in the NBA.
Bingo! That's what the Eli haters on this board and our own giants MB need to realize. This money is based on his accomplishments for the team AND because of the position he plays. Someone else will come along and beat it. Is it too much? yeah, but that's the market..

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Brett Favre (10 years, $101 million from Green Bay in 2001), Drew Bledsoe (10 years, $103 million from New England in 2001), Donovan McNabb (12 years, $115 million from Philadelphia in 2002), Daunte Culpepper (10 years, $102 million from Minnesota in 2003), Michael Vick (10 ears, $130 million from Atlanta in 2004), Carson Palmer (nine-years, $118.75 million from Cincinnati in 2005), and Ben Roethlisberger (eight years, $102 million from Pittsburgh in 2008)
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Where's this great running game you speak of? The one that was 24th in the league in yards per game in 2004? Don't let facts get in the way of a good time.

Donovan's done a hell of a lot more with average receivers than Eli has done with the same caliber of receivers. See second half of season, 2008.
You still averaged 4.4 yards a carry that year good for 10th in the NFL. Maybe Reid should have pounded the run more?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.
It's all relative though, as (generally) the more a contract is worth, the more guaranteed money is given. So even though the max contract is never reached, it is still more valuable than the next highest amount.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.
Well Eli will receive every dollar in this contract. I'm actually suprised at the length of the deal. I thought it would be a 10 year thing to spread out the cap number.
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