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Old 08-11-2009, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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And.........nobody cares! You can't complain like this until you've actually seen a few regular season games.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:19 AM    (permalink
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I dont think trading a 1st for Alphonso Smith is that big of a deal anyway. He would have been a top 10 pick if he was 6 foot or he ran a 4.3. He is just a playmaker and a ballhawk.
but he isnt?
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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So I don't think we bash him enough and quite frankly I am now convinced he is a complete and total idiot. After trading their Franchise QB, implementing a 34 defense, driving Jarvis Moss to the brink of retirement, completely screwing up the draft, going on a very obviously unplanned Free Agency Spending spree and trading their first round pick for Alphonso Smith he does this:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...nd-string.html

Yes, you read that correctly, Josh McDaniels has benched Brandon Marshall in favor of Jabar Gaffney. Yeah, and they expect him to want to stay in Denver? They expect him to play hard for a disrespectful and dishonest coach? Please, you don't bench a guy like Marshall, he is a great young receiver and you're going to bench him? Haha McDaniels you are a total failure.
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Well lets look here, they draft Knowshon Moreno after signing a stable of running backs to add to their stable of running backs they already had.
They draft Robert Ayers a 4-3 LE to play OLB in the 3-4 Defense
They failed to address the defensive line
They traded what will likely be the first overall pick for Alphonso Smith
They drafted Darcel McBath after signing Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.
They drafted Richard Quinn in the second round (huge reach) even though they already had Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler.

All they really did was create a giant cluster- of players at WR, RB, TE, S and QB when they clearly needed a ton of help along the defensive line and in the linebacking core. Did they get some decent players? Yeah, but the fashion in which they did it was not pretty and they reached on players and they brought in players that don't fit their schemes.
First off, how is implementing a 3-4 defense bad? The 4-3 was TERRIBLE before. Jarvis Moss was a bust at 4-3 DE and did not want to switch positions to OLB in the 3-4 (a position many had him projected to when he came out in the draft). If he wants to retire, thats on him not McDaniels. What is McDaniels supposed to do, change his whole defense to adjust to the desires of one bust?

Look closely at the "FA spending spree." Alot of those guys were either in NE or were being looked at heavily in NE, which, coincidently, runs the same system that McDaniels is trying to implement!

The pick may or may not end up being that high (1st overall), but I don't think it will. That offense has too much firepower to lose that many games, and the defense can only go up. I already posted my feelings about how Cutler (although VASTLY more taleneted than Orton) may not have fit the mold of the QB McDaniels wants (i.e. he is a gunslinger type).

And as far as the whole Marshall thing..he isn't practicing because of injury. Thus, he should be on the second team as he has far less reps in a new offense than the others, specifically Gaffney who played in the same system for 2 years in NE.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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but he isnt?
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27
i firmly think that if smith was 2 inches taller he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a very good college CB...just short


while i dont agree with the pick, he is a very talented player
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but he is not 2 inches taller.




I don't know how to double quote or whatever but that was my response to someone else about A. Smith.

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Old 08-11-2009, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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This thread is awesome. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt my feelings as a fan. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt Brandon Marshall's feelings, Moss' feelings and got Jay Cutler's panties so bunched up they broke his vagina.

Holy drama queens . . . yet no Broncos fans seem willing to say "holy **** we had a truckload of prima donna bitches on our squad" and good riddance.

The Cutler situation was a two way drama show that exposed Cutler as a wide receiver-esque crybaby and McDaniels as a green HC. None of the other things mentioned in the first post have any value.

A pre-preseason depth chart? Who the **** cares?

Damning his move from one D scheme to another when the Broncos clearly couldn't handle the 4-3 . . . genius.

Deeming the entire draft a failure before a single exhibition game? Hey man, pass the crystal ball - or at least tell me tomorrow night's winnig powerball numbers.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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I really don't want to pass judgement at this time, but then again I like being that person that says "I told you so". Its hard to tell right now, it might be hard to tell after one year, but some decisions seem bonehead right now. Will they pan out, we will find out.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Side note. How is McDaniels disrespectful and dishonest?
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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but he isnt?
I'm saying just because of some measurables he wasnt a high draft pick. He has a lot of talent and can play football with the best of them.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm saying just because of some measurables he wasnt a high draft pick. He has a lot of talent and can play football with the best of them.
yes. But he is not a top15 talent. Thats why he wasnt drafted there. If you have the measurables you have the chance to improve ur technique. If ur technique is good, u cant just say, lets grow 2 inches
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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yes. But he is not a top15 talent. Thats why he wasnt drafted there. If you have the measurables you have the chance to improve ur technique. If ur technique is good, u cant just say, lets grow 2 inches
I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.
If Troy Smith was 6'4 he would have been 1st rounder
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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The 4-3 wasn't terrible.

The players in the 4-3 were terrible.


The 3-4 is gonna suck just as hard for him this year. He brought in no players to help that front 7 transition to the 3-4 outside of Ayers.

And Ayers isn't a 3-4 LB at all.

They want to run him in a hybrid role, and I can understand that, but its hard to do so when everyone around the guy is crap.

You can only be versatile with your personnel when you have other players that allow for such versatility to happen without a dropoff in team production.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.
no i havent. But 32 teams passed on him. Why trade a first round pick, the worse third round pick even for that? i dont see the reason. Seeing that he went in the 2nd round gives me to believe that he had his issues. If he is there in the 2nd round, why trade a way a potential top10 pick for a guy that was not even considered in the first round.

a 5.9 CB with a 4.5 is a pretty big deficit. How do you think he will match up with the top wide receivers that are up to 5-8 inches bigger than him?
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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I like Alphonso Smith a lot. I loved him coming out.

But theres no way you can warrant that trade for him. He's a slot CB, who can cover smaller WRs in 2 WR sets, but he is not ever going to be worthy of what they gave up for him. He'd be an ok fit in a Cover 2 scheme.

Put a guy like Anquan Boldin or Kenny Britt etc on him, and he's gonna get destroyed in man coverage.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.
Smith for his size is a very nice prospect, but at 5'9" going up against guys who are going to be much bigger, stronger, and faster than him his physical tools are only going to get him so far. If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts then every day would be Christmas.

You cannot justify trading a first round pick for an undersized corner. I think Smith has a chance to be a good player in this league but with next years strong draft class (along with the possibility that Denver won't be any good at all next year), it means they might have traded a top 10 draft pick for a 5'9" cornerback, which in a weak draft class couldn't crack the first round.

I can play this game too. If Rex Grossman had any mental game he would've been a good QB in the NFL. It was a dumb move any way you slice it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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The 4-3 wasn't terrible.

The players in the 4-3 were terrible.


The 3-4 is gonna suck just as hard for him this year. He brought in no players to help that front 7 transition to the 3-4 outside of Ayers.

And Ayers isn't a 3-4 LB at all.

They want to run him in a hybrid role, and I can understand that, but its hard to do so when everyone around the guy is crap.

You can only be versatile with your personnel when you have other players that allow for such versatility to happen without a dropoff in team production.
That's what I meant, the current defense employing the 4-3 set was terrible, not the scheme. An overhaul to the 3-4 or staying in the 4-3 was needed. I would imagine that the defense will be more hybrid as they transition into the 3-4.

I agree that they didn't bring alot in to help the front 7, as I believe they should have. The only saving grace may be that a change in scheme could shake things up enough for the personnel, that they could be better. For instance, maybe Moss becomes a beast at 3-4 OLB (or at least serviceable), whereas he didn't do much at DE in the 4-3. Who knows, it could happen.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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That is if Moss doesn't retire.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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That's what I meant, the current defense employing the 4-3 set was terrible, not the scheme. An overhaul to the 3-4 or staying in the 4-3 was needed. I would imagine that the defense will be more hybrid as they transition into the 3-4.

I agree that they didn't bring alot in to help the front 7, as I believe they should have. The only saving grace may be that a change in scheme could shake things up enough for the personnel, that they could be better. For instance, maybe Moss becomes a beast at 3-4 OLB (or at least serviceable), whereas he didn't do much at DE in the 4-3. Who knows, it could happen.
they basically just need to completely overhaul the entire front 7. Ayers is a start. Dumerville can stay on board. But thats about it as far as im concerned.

3-4 ILBs are easy to find. You can get those in the middle rounds. But that front 3 is very tough to find. Thats gonna be the hard part to draft for.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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they basically just need to completely overhaul the entire front 7. Ayers is a start. Dumerville can stay on board. But thats about it as far as im concerned.

3-4 ILBs are easy to find. You can get those in the middle rounds. But that front 3 is very tough to find. Thats gonna be the hard part to draft for.
No doubt, that defense was not a one offseason fix IMO. It can improve, but not into a stud defense without that DL. I was surprised they didn't go DL early, as BB does that alot (3 first round picks on the DL, with Brace a 2nd rounder this year). Pioli did the same thing in KC this year with Jackson at #3, somewhat surprising until you look at the way he drafted with BB in NE.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Jarvis Moss was going to retire?
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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No doubt, that defense was not a one offseason fix IMO. It can improve, but not into a stud defense without that DL. I was surprised they didn't go DL early, as BB does that alot (3 first round picks on the DL, with Brace a 2nd rounder this year). Pioli did the same thing in KC this year with Jackson at #3, somewhat surprising until you look at the way he drafted with BB in NE.
i agree. what was most surprising to me was not making a move for Ron Brace in round 2. if anything, that to me would be a more valid trade than giving up their 1st for Alphonso Smith.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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i agree. what was most surprising to me was not making a move for Ron Brace in round 2. if anything, that to me would be a more valid trade than giving up their 1st for Alphonso Smith.
I don't remember what picks the broncos had, but I know the Pats traded up to 40 IIRC to get Brace. Maybe they heard chatter about a potential move like that? Brace was the consensus 2nd NT in the draft behind Raji. And I agree. As much as I loved Smith coming out, Brace would make alot more sense.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I like Alphonso Smith a lot. I loved him coming out.

But theres no way you can warrant that trade for him. He's a slot CB, who can cover smaller WRs in 2 WR sets, but he is not ever going to be worthy of what they gave up for him. He'd be an ok fit in a Cover 2 scheme.

Put a guy like Anquan Boldin or Kenny Britt etc on him, and he's gonna get destroyed in man coverage.
Thats just it though, the 3-4 defense uses alot more zone coverage in the secondary. If you look at the Patriots CBs in the past to present you have a 3rd rounder in Ellis Hobbs and 4th rounder in Asante Samuel and Jonathan Wilhite, 2nd rounders in Terrence Wheatley and Darius Butler.

The Broncos gave up a 1st round pick and used a 2nd round pick to draft Smith. Unless he becomes a Darrelle Revis, Chris McCallister, or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie you have to question giving up 2 first day picks for a zone CB.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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McDaniels has not had a good offseason. He's got good intentions and maybe when he's not so green, he'll experience some success. But right now, this just gets worse and worse. Possibly one of the worst offseasons in NFL history.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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The broncos have other talented players in the front 7; DJ Williams, Elvis Dummerville, Tim Crowder has been playing LIGHTS out in TC, Andre Davis was a very solid LB for cleveland
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