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Old 08-26-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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Originally Posted by GhostDeini View Post
Misleading college stats from gimmicky offense and still not with team by 3rd pre season game. I smell a future bust.
Usually the gimmicky offenses are misleading for QBs, not the guys who catch the ball.
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Old 08-26-2009, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
Usually the gimmicky offenses are misleading for QBs, not the guys who catch the ball.
you still have to run routes...
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Old 08-26-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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you still have to run routes...
Same with everyone else in the country.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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you still have to run routes...
Jeremy Maclin?
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
He wasn't the highest rated WR in the draft?
Clearly the Raiders had DHB rated higher. You can say whatever you want about Crabtree - top 5 talent, top rated WR, etc. The fact is that he wasn't the 1st WR drafted, and he wasn't a top 5 pick. He was picked 10th, he gets paid that way.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
Clearly the Raiders had DHB rated higher. You can say whatever you want about Crabtree - top 5 talent, top rated WR, etc. The fact is that he wasn't the 1st WR drafted, and he wasn't a top 5 pick. He was picked 10th, he gets paid that way.
The Raiders also had Michael Mitchell as that top rated safety...

I thought you meant that he wasn't top rated like by Kiper and Mayock, stuff like that.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
Usually the gimmicky offenses are misleading for QBs, not the guys who catch the ball.
This is not totally true. The spread offenses create more space and easier reads for College QB's but also allow more space for the wide out for the run after the catch as well as an easier time dealing with safeties.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dabears10 View Post
This is not totally true. The spread offenses create more space and easier reads for College QB's but also allow more space for the wide out for the run after the catch as well as an easier time dealing with safeties.
Well when it's all said and done, they still have to catch the ball like everyone else. Crabtree was even allowed to show off his ability to run after catch in those screens they run so well.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
Well when it's all said and done, they still have to catch the ball like everyone else. Crabtree was even allowed to show off his ability to run after catch in those screens they run so well.
Oh, I am just saying it can skew a receivers numbers as well. I think Crabtree is going to be a player. He just needs to get in camp.
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Oh, I am just saying it can skew a receivers numbers as well. I think Crabtree is going to be a player. He just needs to get in camp.
No denying he needs to be in camp. Damn I wish he would just sign with us already. MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Camp and preseason are huge for rookies. If I was an owner I would start to reduce my offer the longer a player misses camp. You don't pay a player just to show up for games, but to get prepared to play as good as possible. For rookies their first season is about improving themselves to play at a high level, the second and third season is when they really step up and earn big salaries.

If they miss camp their improvement in rookie year is greatly reduced. Missing a bunch of regular season games is less important than going to camp.

After camp is over I would demand they take less than last season got. They will have to take that as they'd lose so much if they re-entered the draft. They'd likely sit out the first bunch of games, but the impact of those games isn't so big if they've already missed camp.
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Other thing ive been wondering. why do all those negotiations start so late?
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Other thing ive been wondering. why do all those negotiations start so late?
It usually trickles down after the 1st pick is signed and so forth to about the 10th then everyone knows what they will be getting and signs but it hasnt' worked out that way.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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"On Crabtree, my first guess: Labor Day. A day or two before; a day or two after. That's the most likely time for him to accept SF's deal"
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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i feel sorry for who ever has to draft in the top 10 next year, this is of course if Crabtree gets the money he wants.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Camp and preseason are huge for rookies. If I was an owner I would start to reduce my offer the longer a player misses camp. You don't pay a player just to show up for games, but to get prepared to play as good as possible. For rookies their first season is about improving themselves to play at a high level, the second and third season is when they really step up and earn big salaries.

If they miss camp their improvement in rookie year is greatly reduced. Missing a bunch of regular season games is less important than going to camp.

After camp is over I would demand they take less than last season got. They will have to take that as they'd lose so much if they re-entered the draft. They'd likely sit out the first bunch of games, but the impact of those games isn't so big if they've already missed camp.
You would make an excellent owner.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Everything credible should come with one.
Just because you have a link to something doesn't make it factual or credible.

I remember when people had links up during the 2008 draft about players who failed drug tests at the combine, and the rumors turned up false.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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The Raiders also had Michael Mitchell as that top rated safety...

I thought you meant that he wasn't top rated like by Kiper and Mayock, stuff like that.
No, for this discussion his ranking by the media isn't relevant.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Just because you have a link to something doesn't make it factual or credible.

I remember when people had links up during the 2008 draft about players who failed drug tests at the combine, and the rumors turned up false.
No but it's much better than: "Word is so and so doesn't wanna play".
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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The longer Crabtree sits out, the more overrated he becomes.

It's not like he's a Randy Moss type freak athlete who can expect to excel in the pros simply because he's the best athlete on the field.

He needs to be in TC working on timing with his QB. If Crabtree misses the entire preseason, his rookie year will bust BIG TIME.
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Old 08-29-2009, 06:37 AM    (permalink
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i feel sorry for who ever has to draft in the top 10 next year, this is of course if Crabtree gets the money he wants.
And that's not going to happen. Crabtree is just screwing himself over big time. Plain and simple.
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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As a Niner fan, I am extremely disheartened by Crabtree's situation. I am just hoping that this turns out similarly to one of Eugene Parker's older clients... Deion Sanders held out until a week prior to the opening game.
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Well, if he signs before the first game, he still gets his money. So, whether or not he shows up now or September 12th, it doesnt matter much.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I love how people are finding ways to subtly blame the Raiders (Davis and Bey specifically) for Michael Crabtree's holdout. This is on no one but Crabtree and his team. They are the ones trying to break the slotting system that has been in place for so long. the Raiders have nothing to do with it. They actually got their 1st round pick in time--the reciprocal of that is also true--their first round pick actually came in on time and didn't hold out.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:21 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucs_Rule View Post
Camp and preseason are huge for rookies. If I was an owner I would start to reduce my offer the longer a player misses camp. You don't pay a player just to show up for games, but to get prepared to play as good as possible. For rookies their first season is about improving themselves to play at a high level, the second and third season is when they really step up and earn big salaries.

If they miss camp their improvement in rookie year is greatly reduced. Missing a bunch of regular season games is less important than going to camp.

After camp is over I would demand they take less than last season got. They will have to take that as they'd lose so much if they re-entered the draft. They'd likely sit out the first bunch of games, but the impact of those games isn't so big if they've already missed camp.
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Originally Posted by S T R I N G View Post
You would make an excellent owner.
That's what AJ Smith does and he's widely regarded as one of the best GMs in the business. To be honest, I think this is only fair. In the Raiders' scenario, they paid Jamarcus Russell a 6-year deal but they only got 5 years out of him because he missed so much time from his holdout. So that means, in reality, the yearly salary of Russell's contract was even more bloated than on paper.

If I'm a GM/owner, I will pay you for what I am going to get out of you. As you skip camp/preseason looking for more money the time I have you in season 1 goes down. And thus so will your contract offer.

It's worked for Smith.
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