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Old 09-09-2009, 06:01 PM    (permalink
Sniper
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And McNabb is on the decline? Why don't you just scream you don't have any clue what you're talking about? Last year was one of his best years, he threw for a career high in yards, yes higher than the year with TO.
Not the best stat to use to prove your point. McNabb threw the ball 571 times in '08 (a career-high) at a 6.9 ypa clip. He also had a 2.09 TD:INT ratio. By comparison, he threw the ball 469 times in 2004 at a 8.3 ypa clip. He also had a 3.875:1 (!!!) TD:INT ratio.
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Not the best stat to use to prove your point. McNabb threw the ball 571 times in '08 (a career-high) at a 6.9 ypa clip. He also had a 2.09 TD:INT ratio. By comparison, he threw the ball 469 times in 2004 at a 8.3 ypa clip. He also had a 3.875:1 (!!!) TD:INT ratio.
True, but the main point I was trying to make is that McNabb had one of his best years last season and is not on the decline. I think that low YPA is due to the fact that the Eagles receivers were questionable last season with LJ Smith starting and having Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis step in in the absence of Kevin Curtis and the fact that DeSean Jackson was still young and developing.

I think the better stat is yards per completion because YPA also accounts for incompletions, drops, bad routes etc. etc. and there were quite a lot of those last season with injuries to Curtis, with Smith starting and DeSean only catching 55% of passes thrown his way. Expect that to go up as the sure handed Brent Celek starts at TE, Curtis is healthy and DeSean has a year under his belt.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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And McNabb is on the decline? Why don't you just scream you don't have any clue what you're talking about? Last year was one of his best years, he threw for a career high in yards, yes higher than the year with TO.
I don't have a clue? You are so obviously clueless. Mc-whine-a-lot had a QB rating of 104 the year he had T.O. I don't think that includes the superbowl game when he fell asleep on the field though. He had an 86 rating last year and was very hot and cold. Take off your blinders dude.

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And congrats Ware stiff armed Vick, how well to you think a QB is going to tackle a LB that has about 50 pounds on him?
Ware also intercepted his pass on the same play home slice.


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McNabb is the QB and he owns the Cowboys. 44-6, I counter your homerism with homerism of my own.
Unfortunately for him, that and winning the NFC championship during a time when the NFC was awful is about all he has and ever will going for him. He will never win a long sought after Superbowl for your pitiful franchise.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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OK, so now there is a big difference between saying the draft was good versus great??? Let's get beyond symantics here. What is your reason for all your justification about how all the picks were the right picks made for the right reasons? If all the picks were the right decisions, then why the downgrade from calling it a great draft? I thought you said this is what we needed? Is it because now all of a sudden only 6 of the 12 are on the final active roster on opening day?
Actually there is a significant difference between good and great. This is basic English dude.

It is hard to have a great draft when you don't draft until the third round, and two I didn't see many huge value gets besides Michael Hamlin.

the 6 of 12 on the opening active game day roster is a meaningless stat. It's meaningless because 1) I and most knowledgeable people don't expect mid to late round draft picks to contribute in any significant way in their rookie year. When they do then you can consider it a great draft. Secondly, 11 of the 12 rookies are under contract and will continue to develop under our auspices and will be in training camp next year.

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How can you say there is no loss in draft value? Do you sit there today thinking that we have accummulated the same worth that matches the value of our draft assets going into the draft?
When you talk about draft value and good decision making in the draft room you don't talk about what happens after the draft already happen, that is absurd to fault the decision makers for future events. Draft value doesn't apply to what happens after they already got drafted. Your diction is all wrong, and you are trying to twist words to prove a bad point.

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Don't try to suggest that I thought the guys we drafted were gonna be starters. That's what YOU were trying to tell ME! Outside of Jason Williams and David Buehler, I didn't expect any to be starters now or down the line. Bottom line is that now you're reaching while you keep sliding down that slippery slope. You thought more of them would make the team than did, and now you don't want to own up to it. Be a man. So now we come away with 6 guys on the final roster to start the season and you're trying to reach further by saying that Brewster on PUP is going to develop the same way as he would've have had he been healthy... AND you think he's gonna play this year? Clinging on to the depths of hopes... Need a hand up, buddy?
I thought two would be cut. Three were cut. Is that really something to beat your chest about?

And we are going to boot some scrub off the roster in 6 weeks to make room for Brewster. So discounting him as not making the team is really taking liberty with the facts. And I don't think Brewster is going to making any significant contribution to this team until 2-3 years from now. Lineman take awhile to develop, so saying he was a wasted pick because he was out for less than 3 months out of the 2-3 year it will take to develop him is just plain dumb.

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...and you were trying to convince me that he was a great 3rd round pick? You're doing me a favor by that comment of yours. Thanks. Now you understand my frustration. We'll see how much Preston plays this year because that's the playing time Brewster would've gotten.
I'm trying to point out the fact we took him were he was supposed to go, so as a matter of fact saying he was a bad pick is silly. And you do realize that o-lineman don't rotate... Right?

And you obviously have little knowledge of our depth chart. Preston and Brewster would hardly compete with each other for playing time if an injury to a starter occurred. Preston is the prime backup at center and would only play guard if one of our starting guards got injured and Holland go injured. You show your obvious lack of knowledge of the Cowboys roster with that comment.

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I didn't say they needed to trade picks to get four or five better players! Talk about putting words in other people's mouths... I think the value we got in return was much less than what we could've gotten. Period.
Then tell me what trades and what picks exactly did you want to give up.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?
Put me under the group that agrees with scotty...
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?
Yes because you can judge a draft class halfway through their rookie year. Excellent point! [/sarcasm]
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Yes because you can judge a draft class halfway through their rookie year. Excellent point! [/sarcasm]
Some people jsut don't get it... lol.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Some people jsut don't get it... lol.
I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a clue? You are so obviously clueless. Mc-whine-a-lot had a QB rating of 104 the year he had T.O. I don't think that includes the superbowl game when he fell asleep on the field though. He had an 86 rating last year and was very hot and cold. Take off your blinders dude.

Ware also intercepted his pass on the same play home slice.


Unfortunately for him, that and winning the NFC championship during a time when the NFC was awful is about all he has and ever will going for him. He will never win a long sought after Superbowl for your pitiful franchise.
Mc-whine-a-lot? Please, once again clueless. And did I ever say he played better last year than he did with TO? No, I said he had more passing yards which is a fairly large difference. But fact is that you're telling me that a QB coming off of his 2nd or 3rd best career season is on the decline which he clearly is not. Please if you're going to bash the Eagles at least be reasonable and back your stuff up with logic instead of just spewing useless ****.

And again, why does Vick matter? He isn't starting, McNabb is. Plus that is one play who cares? If one play made a player, Freddie Mitchell and David Tyree would be hall of famers. How can you say that Ware dominates Vick based on one play and then to make you look even stupider he was on a completely different team? Please try again.

Pitiful franchise? Please leave now, the Eagles' pathetic franchise has actually won a playoff game (10 of them to be exact) in the past 14 years unlike the Cowboys who have a grand total of 0. And I'm glad to know you can tell the future, can you tell me the lottery numbers?
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Actually there is a significant difference between good and great. This is basic English dude.

It is hard to have a great draft when you don't draft until the third round, and two I didn't see many huge value gets besides Michael Hamlin.
Haha. OK, that first part was funny. Made me laugh. You're right there's a difference, but in context to our discussions you lead people to believe everything the Cowboys did in the draft was so damn great. I guess I just gotta realize there is less emphasis in your points than you lead on.

I agree it's tough to have a great draft when you start picking in the 3rd. But who put us in that situation? We had a pick in Round 2 and already it looks like we made the wrong move by trading down. Did you like that move?

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the 6 of 12 on the opening active game day roster is a meaningless stat. It's meaningless because 1) I and most knowledgeable people don't expect mid to late round draft picks to contribute in any significant way in their rookie year. When they do then you can consider it a great draft. Secondly, 11 of the 12 rookies are under contract and will continue to develop under our auspices and will be in training camp next year.
I didn't expect the real results of this draft to show until a few years from now, but it's already looking bad. You can try to sugar coat it all you want, but I wasn't expecting it to look this bad so soon. I know that these guys weren't gonna be asked to make significant impacts this year. Heck, our first pick, Jason Williams would be fighting for the nickel LB spot. But to say it doesn't matter that they're injured, or to infer that they are still on the same development path and that there is no difference with them being on or off the active team roster (for as long as they are expected to be out) is the same thing is just being ignorant. The time loss hurts the team, hurts them and often times hurts their future with the team. ...and it makes us look like we wasted a pick taking them when we did. As far as the future for Brewster, B. Williams and Hodge goes, it's a whole lot different now than the day we drafted them. The longer they are out, the more likelihood of them being replaced permanently.

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When you talk about draft value and good decision making in the draft room you don't talk about what happens after the draft already happen, that is absurd to fault the decision makers for future events. Draft value doesn't apply to what happens after they already got drafted. Your diction is all wrong, and you are trying to twist words to prove a bad point.
I agree and disagree. I agree draft pick value is relative to time. However, I don't agree that the decision makers are free of blame to the players they draft because the future is unforeseeable. Bill Parcells gets hammered for drafting Jacob Rogers. He didn't foresee that, but it's the truth to what happens in real life. Now Brewster, Williams and Hodge are in the same boat Rogers was in. We'll see how their futures unfold, but it ain't looking pretty.

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I thought two would be cut. Three were cut. Is that really something to beat your chest about?
Ah you only thought Manny would be cut. You posted that 53 man roster with everyone except Brewster and Johnson. Just admit you were wrong. I'm wrong all the time. You don't have to act like Mr. Perfect. Just makes you look like a fool.

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And we are going to boot some scrub off the roster in 6 weeks to make room for Brewster. So discounting him as not making the team is really taking liberty with the facts. And I don't think Brewster is going to making any significant contribution to this team until 2-3 years from now. Lineman take awhile to develop, so saying he was a wasted pick because he was out for less than 3 months out of the 2-3 year it will take to develop him is just plain dumb.
If Brewster is on the active roster in 6 weeks, I'll give you your due. ...and I'll feel better about Brewster's future on the club. As for his role in 2-3 years, there is high hope for him to be of starting material.

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I'm trying to point out the fact we took him were he was supposed to go, so as a matter of fact saying he was a bad pick is silly. And you do realize that o-lineman don't rotate... Right?
The view from your high horse must be nice. Next thing you're gonna say is that the football is not round so you can feel good about yourself. ha.

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And you obviously have little knowledge of our depth chart. Preston and Brewster would hardly compete with each other for playing time if an injury to a starter occurred. Preston is the prime backup at center and would only play guard if one of our starting guards got injured and Holland go injured. You show your obvious lack of knowledge of the Cowboys roster with that comment.
I was wrong there. Honestly, I don't know how Preston will fit in. I initially thought he'd give Proctor the boot, but he didn't. He came in so late, and I haven't followed him as closely. Guess I obviously lack any knowledge of the Cowboys. hahaha.

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Then tell me what trades and what picks exactly did you want to give up.
I would've kept 51 to start off with and go with Jaron Gilbert, Sean Smith, Phil Loadholt, Paul Kruger... just to name a few. Rather have that than a broke ass Brewster and Brandon Williams.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.
no, i don't give a rats ass about the Cowboys and their crappy draft. I'm implying that when all the other predictions you're saying and all the other nonsense you're spewing hit the fan and come back at you, you'll run like...like...i'm too tired for a hilarious analogy, but yea, you won't be here.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.
You know what's sad...




You still didn't get it...
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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Mc-whine-a-lot? Please, once again clueless. And did I ever say he played better last year than he did with TO? No, I said he had more passing yards which is a fairly large difference. But fact is that you're telling me that a QB coming off of his 2nd or 3rd best career season is on the decline which he clearly is not. Please if you're going to bash the Eagles at least be reasonable and back your stuff up with logic instead of just spewing useless ****.

And again, why does Vick matter? He isn't starting, McNabb is. Plus that is one play who cares? If one play made a player, Freddie Mitchell and David Tyree would be hall of famers. How can you say that Ware dominates Vick based on one play and then to make you look even stupider he was on a completely different team? Please try again.

Pitiful franchise? Please leave now, the Eagles' pathetic franchise has actually won a playoff game (10 of them to be exact) in the past 14 years unlike the Cowboys who have a grand total of 0. And I'm glad to know you can tell the future, can you tell me the lottery numbers?
Are you saying McNappy doesn't whine a lot?

'04 he had a 105 QB rating
'05 he had an 85 QB rating and was out half the season with an injury
'06 he had a 95 rating
'07 he had a 90 rating
'08 he had an 86 rating

That is certainly a downward trend and a sign of a declining player past his prime. Man you are clueless

We haven't won a playoff game in the arbitrary timeline you made (14 years) but we have won loads of others before that. However, the Eagles franchise has never won a superbowl. Not one. That is pitiful.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Are you saying McNappy doesn't whine a lot?

'04 he had a 105 QB rating
'05 he had an 85 QB rating and was out half the season with an injury
'06 he had a 95 rating
'07 he had a 90 rating
'08 he had an 86 rating

That is certainly a downward trend and a sign of a declining player past his prime. Man you are clueless

We haven't won a playoff game in the arbitrary timeline you made (14 years) but we have won loads of others before that. However, the Eagles franchise has never won a superbowl. Not one. That is pitiful.
You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination. Brian Westbrook has a 153.8 QB rating, which is perfect. Should he be our starting QB?
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually it is pretty reliable, which is why all the QB's with ratings over 90 are considered good. Moreover, I watch the games and Mcnappy was hot and cold last year and on the decline. Those are the facts.

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Brian Westbrook has a 153.8 QB rating, which is perfect. Should he be our starting QB?
How many attempts did he have? If the sample size is extremely small you are going to have an extremely large margin of error. That is how statistics work. And thus in that instance it wouldn't be reliable. But since McNappy has a large sample size it would be reliable.

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Old 09-10-2009, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually it is pretty reliable, which is why all the QB's with ratings over 90 are considered good. Moreover, I watch the games and Mcnappy was hot and cold last year and on the decline. Those are the facts.


How many attempts did he have? If the sample size is extremely small you are going to have an extremely large margin of error. That is how statistics work. And thus in that instance it wouldn't be reliable. But since McNappy has a large sample size it would be reliable.
Well I'm not going to say I disagree with everything you've been saying I'm the biggest McNabb hater on the board and now there is someone who agrees with me. That said QB rating is not an accurate designate on its own. I mean Jeff Garcia was a top 10 in rating last season and now he's out of the league.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Well I'm not going to say I disagree with everything you've been saying I'm the biggest McNabb hater on the board and now there is someone who agrees with me. That said QB rating is not an accurate designate on its own. I mean Jeff Garcia was a top 10 in rating last season and now he's out of the league.
Garcia is a good QB in the right system; I'm not sure that Oakland's offense plays to his strength. Moreover, it is debatable whether Russell was really better than Garcia or they thought Russell was good enough and showed enough development to give him the starter's job.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Garcia is a good QB in the right system; I'm not sure that Oakland's offense plays to his strength. Moreover, it is debatable whether Russell was really better than Garcia or they thought Russell was good enough and showed enough development to give him the starter's job.
Granted but I'm saying that if he was a top 10 QB in any scheme. He would have at least a back up role somewhere.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Granted but I'm saying that if he was a top 10 QB in any scheme. He would have at least a back up role somewhere.
From my understanding Garcia was disgruntled when he didn't get the starting job, which led to him being cut. I don't think it had anything to do with his abilities. Moreover, I don't think a team is going to pick up a 39 year old QB who already made it known he does not want to be a backup.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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From my understanding Garcia was disgruntled when he didn't get the starting job, which led to him being cut. I don't think it had anything to do with his abilities. Moreover, I don't think a team is going to pick up a 39 year old QB who already made it known he does not want to be a backup.


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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Oh Hai!
Just out of suriosity, where did your McNabb hate start?

Just wondering...

Edit, why did I quote this...? lol
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Just out of suriosity, where did your McNabb hate start?

Just wondering...

Edit, why did I quote this...? lol
I can't really pin point where it started. It might have been three mid late season injuries. Might have been the TO incident and no one was giving him his rightful part of the blame. I was really angry when he came out on ESPN and whined about how it was so much harder being a black QB in the league at a time when he was sucking it up. Mama McNabb's bitter sweet comment about Garcia leading the Eagles to the playoffs. All of it added fuel to the fire.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Oh Hai!
Well Garcia is no Favre I'll admit that; even though I do think Favre is a bit overrated.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Well Garcia is no Favre I'll admit that; even though I do think Favre is a bit overrated.
My point exactly but Garcia's QB rating was almost 10 points higher than Favre.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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