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Old 09-16-2009, 09:23 PM    (permalink
locseti
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Blaming the refs thats so Raider of you there are bad calls in every game get over it.
just throwing that one in there, but seriously i want to know what was different about that play and the Ben Watson TD catch.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Hey, I agree it was a bad call but it is what it is they still had chances to win but didn't pull it off stuff as they say happens.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by locseti View Post
so were you one of the people jumping on crazy al and clowning the trade or did you not have an opinion either way? If you don't have an opinion, then keep your non opinions to yourself. cause you're not adding anything to the conversation, you're stating the obvious. Of course we will never know who had the best draft class until three years down the line, but scott doesn't wait til then to hand out draft grades.
I merely choose to point out that extremists, like yourself, who are saying after ONE GAME, that the trade has already been won. It was the same when everyone jumped on the trade for the pats right away, as you alluded to. It appears to be working out for the raiders, AT THIS ONE MOMENT, but it is far from over. (Note, just because it is working out for the raiders does not mean it will not or is not working out for the pats, or vice versa.) My personal beliefs on the trade were that in the long run the patriots get better, but in the short run this move makes them worse.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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I merely choose to point out that extremists, like yourself, who are saying after ONE GAME, that the trade has already been won. It was the same when everyone jumped on the trade for the pats right away, as you alluded to. It appears to be working out for the raiders, AT THIS ONE MOMENT, but it is far from over. (Note, just because it is working out for the raiders does not mean it will not or is not working out for the pats, or vice versa.) My personal beliefs on the trade were that in the long run the patriots get better, but in the short run this move makes them worse.
Originally I was calling out the people who killed the raiders for this trade and thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever. I thought it was an excellent trade even before I saw the game. The game acted as further evidence to support my belief. dont really think that makes me an 'extremist'. The fact is the Raiders Defense has been completely transformed by one man.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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All I know is Seymour looked very good out there, not knowing many plays of ours and getting instructions in the huddle. He will help both our running and passing defense and should get his big contract at the end of the year from us. Now all we need to do is get Schilens back healthy and have Russell be a game manager for our offence and just run the ball 25-30 times with DMC, Bush and Fargas. We should be decent this year
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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The defense twice couldn`t hold the lead late. The Raiders should have scored a lot more points but Russell kept miss firing.

You can blame the refs all you want, but the game shouldn`t have been close by the fourth Quarter.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by locseti View Post
As I said before, I will gladly take a 30 yr old seymour for 5 more years than another Heyward-Bey type in 2011. So many people were clowning this trade when it happened, but Al got it right. That was a different defense out there.
That is extremely ambitious if you think he will be playing anywhere near his current level in 5 years. His play declined a few years ago slightly due to injury and no doubt he is getting back to the Seymour that was dominant for the Patriots in the Superbowl years but how many all pro defensive ends/tackles do you know who are 35? He will definitely not only upgrade talent levels but will also bring a Championship mentality to the Raiders however he will not be continue to play at such a high level. It is just a simple fact that age will catch up with a player with previous injury concerns.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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That is extremely ambitious if you think he will be playing anywhere near his current level in 5 years. His play declined a few years ago slightly due to injury and no doubt he is getting back to the Seymour that was dominant for the Patriots in the Superbowl years but how many all pro defensive ends/tackles do you know who are 35? He will definitely not only upgrade talent levels but will also bring a Championship mentality to the Raiders however he will not be continue to play at such a high level. It is just a simple fact that age will catch up with a player with previous injury concerns.
The best point I've heard on this whole thing is that even if his play does drop off, what he will bring to the team is highly likely to be far more valuable than whatever Al would have used the 1st rounder on.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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The best point I've heard on this whole thing is that even if his play does drop off, what he will bring to the team is highly likely to be far more valuable than whatever Al would have used the 1st rounder on.
Exactly - the way Al has been blowing picks lately, it's a safe assumption that Seymour has way more value than the 2011 pick.

Even without that little tidbit, however, I don't think the Raiders can 'lose' in this trade unless they don't retain his services beyond 2 years. Seymour is a beast and has a reasonable chance at continuing his pro-bowl calibur play for 3 years with 2 better than average years after that. I'd say the quote by Al describing this trade as a draft pick for an all-time great with HOF potential is dead on.

It can be a win/win trade or a Raiders win.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Exactly - the way Al has been blowing picks lately, it's a safe assumption that Seymour has way more value than the 2011 pick.

Even without that little tidbit, however, I don't think the Raiders can 'lose' in this trade unless they don't retain his services beyond 2 years. Seymour is a beast and has a reasonable chance at continuing his pro-bowl calibur play for 3 years with 2 better than average years after that. I'd say the quote by Al describing this trade as a draft pick for an all-time great with HOF potential is dead on.

It can be a win/win trade or a Raiders win.
All that's true, but the way I look at it is, why spend a future 1st when your a typically bad team, on an old player who won't help you win the super bowl?


Yes he's still an awesome player, but he probably makes them go from 4 wins to 7? How much better are we talking? The Raiders won't be winning a super bowl before Seymour retires, and I feel like that pick could of been much more valuable to the team.


Al does screw up nearly every one of his 1st rounders, but if your still in the market for a QB by that time it's kind of hard to argue taking Seymour who helps you win a few more games a year over another crack at a franchise QB(or maybe LT).
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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All that's true, but the way I look at it is, why spend a future 1st when your a typically bad team, on an old player who won't help you win the super bowl?


Yes he's still an awesome player, but he probably makes them go from 4 wins to 7? How much better are we talking? The Raiders won't be winning a super bowl before Seymour retires, and I feel like that pick could of been much more valuable to the team.


Al does screw up nearly every one of his 1st rounders, but if your still in the market for a QB by that time it's kind of hard to argue taking Seymour who helps you win a few more games a year over another crack at a franchise QB(or maybe LT).
See, you can't think like that, Al doesnt think like that. He thinks the Raiders can contend in the weak AFC west this year. he is trying to improve the team. you cant think 'well, we are terrible, so lets just keep going the way we have been going the past 7 yrs, and maybe we will improve.' Obviously we have trouble drafting. At least with this trade we have gotten a proven professional who can absolutely help the team. We are improving, there is no doubt. Honsetly, I think that this move was made with the following year in mind. If we hadn't made the trade at the time we did, there is no way we could have gotten seymour. We still have a first rounder next yr, and our young players will have another year under their belt. KC and Denver are pretty much in full blown rebuilding mode, so it's not out of the realm of possibility to think the Raiders have a shot at contending. We will have to revisit this topic throughout the year, who knows, maybe seymour is the next Reggie White.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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With an 8-8 record winning the division last year, the improvement from 4 to 7 wins does get the Raiders right into the mix.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Who still thinks this was a bad trade for the Raiders?
Yes, after one game the argument about whether or not trading for Seymour was a good has been decided.

My opinion was that if Davis could not resign him, it was a bad deal. If they could resign him, it was a good deal. It has been mentioned that Davis' drafting track record lately is well, bad. Being able to get a player that probably has 2-3 more good years left on his tires and signing him to an extension would be a good move (and it looks like that will happen). Had the Raiders failed to keep him past this year though it would have been a bad deal.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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just throwing that one in there, but seriously i want to know what was different about that play and the Ben Watson TD catch.
The play before a San Diego defender dropped an interception that hit him square in the numbers.

The Raiders caught a break and the Charges caught a break on the next play. It did not, however decide the outcome of the football game. There was an entire second half to play. Fans, players, and coaches who blame refs costing them games are making excuses instead of looking at their performance on the field.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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I love how some have all ready wrote off the Chiefs after they went toe to toe with the Ravens for 3 quarters.

Any one that watched the game instead of just looking at the stats would know the Chiefs played really hard just let it slip away late.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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The play before a San Diego defender dropped an interception that hit him square in the numbers.

The Raiders caught a break and the Charges caught a break on the next play. It did not, however decide the outcome of the football game. There was an entire second half to play. Fans, players, and coaches who blame refs costing them games are making excuses instead of looking at their performance on the field.
obviously i understand it did not decide the outcome of the game. I guarantee there is no raider fan out there who believes that call decided the outcome of the game. I don't believe I'm stretching the truth, however, when I say that the majority of questionable calls go against the raiders.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally I was calling out the people who killed the raiders for this trade and thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever. I thought it was an excellent trade even before I saw the game. The game acted as further evidence to support my belief. dont really think that makes me an 'extremist'. The fact is the Raiders Defense has been completely transformed by one man.
I was saying you were an extremist because you basically made it seem as though the trade was already a win for the raiders because he played well in one game. His play may taper off this year,he could get hurt, he may be a monster this year and nothing ever again, or you could never make the playoffs with him on the team, who knows? I personally wish him the best of luck, and wanted to see him stay with the pats, but I'd rather get a first round pick for one year (for us, we were not going to re-sign him) of his services. My point is, it is way to early to judge.

For the pats it boils down to this: drafted Seymour 6th overall, got 9 (IIRC) years, 3 championships and 4 superbowls out of him, with 5(again, IIRC) pro-bowls, and get a first round pick return for that investment.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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The Patriots will ultimately win out in this trade because while Seymour is a fantastic player and in my opinion, a future hall of famer, he could very well be gone before the Raiders can compete at a high level again.

I just can't get over the fact the Raiders COULD have Seymour and RJ Raji side by side right now and instead they took a track star with a quarterback who has trouble throwing it in the same zipcode as his receivers
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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I love how some have all ready wrote off the Chiefs after they went toe to toe with the Ravens for 3 quarters.

Any one that watched the game instead of just looking at the stats would know the Chiefs played really hard just let it slip away late.
I really hope the Chiefs do well in future and while they did play very hard and putting up 24 points against Baltimore is a hell of an achievement, they gave up 500 yards of offense to Baltimore. 300 yards to Joe Flacco. Imagine if that was the Saints. It will be two to three years before the Chiefs can compete again and until then all they can do is compete hard every week, which it seems they are happy to do.
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:13 PM    (permalink
Splat
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I really hope the Chiefs do well in future and while they did play very hard and putting up 24 points against Baltimore is a hell of an achievement, they gave up 500 yards of offense to Baltimore. 300 yards to Joe Flacco. Imagine if that was the Saints. It will be two to three years before the Chiefs can compete again and until then all they can do is compete hard every week, which it seems they are happy to do.
The whole 500 yards thing is very missleading the D was so tired by the second half that they had nothing left on top of that Brandon Flowers arguably their best defender didn't even play.

The Chiefs O left them out to dry in the first half and they fought tooth and nail but their tank can only hold so much.

The Chiefs are not a playoff team by any means but if you were to ask most Ravens fans they would agree that the stats don't tell the whole story of that game.
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:32 PM    (permalink
Bucs_Rule
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Ravens fans would be concerned with how many points they gave up. Its great that you scored a lot more points than usual, but its bad that you give up so many to a bad offense with a crappy QB starting.

Taking just the good or the bad from that game would be misleading.
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:42 PM    (permalink
Whistler6
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Seymour just did an interview for Petros and Money on Fox Sports Radio. He seems like a real legit guy. No hard feelings towards the Pats, but was pretty shell shocked when he realize his new team was 3000 miles away.

Said his 4 young kids and wife are more important to him than where he's playing and as long as they are with him he's happy. He also said that sitting out on his porch in sunny Cali beat the weather in New England by a longggg shot.

One more thing, he said he didn't even practice before playing in Monday's game and only saw a small bit of film. Today was his first Raider practice.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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I think the Patriots will be happy with the trade as well. Seymour is 30, facing a new contract extension and the Pats are selling high.
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:47 AM    (permalink
locseti
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The thing with the pats is Brady is not getting any younger, and I would have gone for broke. This year was a great opportunity for them to go all the way. They may still be able to do it, but it's gong to be much tougher with Jarvis green in the starting lineup cause he's sure as hell no Richard Seymour.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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The thing with the pats is Brady is not getting any younger, and I would have gone for broke. This year was a great opportunity for them to go all the way. They may still be able to do it, but it's gong to be much tougher with Jarvis green in the starting lineup cause he's sure as hell no Richard Seymour.
Seymour will definitely leave a hole that can't be filled by one player. Jarvis is a solid starter and NE will use more 4 man fronts, allowing Wright/Brace/Green/Burgess to combine to fill that hole. With the LB core posing the biggest threat to NE's consistency on defense, I would say the loss of Seymour will be far less dramatic than anyone thinks. Plus the offense should make each game a shoot out and there are not many teams built to keep up. On passing downs Big Rich moved inside so we're looking at a need to fill his spot at DT more than DE (5-tech) on more plays than not.
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