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Old 09-07-2009, 04:40 PM    (permalink
BigBanger
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Originally Posted by DoughBoy View Post
Yep, thats what they said about David Carr. This is stupid move, unless the OL got 20x better.
That's what they said about Joey Harrington too. The OL can be utter ****, which they are, but if Stafford is going to be a bust, he'll be a bust on his own. David Carr is a ****** NFL QB. Simple as that. Houston could have built the greatest OL in the history of OLs and he would have still been a bust. Stafford will be hindered by his OL until it improves, but he wont bust because of it. That's not how it works. Many QBs have played behind ****** OLs and still went on to have great careers. Big Ben just won a facking SB with one. If he's a bust, he'll be a bust regardless of their OL. Getting pressure or getting hit and facing pressure wont be anything new to Stafford. He's had three years of it in college.

Now, if Detroit wants to actually be any good, it might be in their best interest to draft a LT. Maybe a couple guards. A center for the future. **** like that.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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That's what they said about Joey Harrington too. The OL can be utter ****, which they are, but if Stafford is going to be a bust, he'll be a bust on his own. David Carr is a ****** NFL QB. Simple as that. Houston could have built the greatest OL in the history of OLs and he would have still been a bust. Stafford will be hindered by his OL until it improves, but he wont bust because of it. That's not how it works. Many QBs have played behind ****** OLs and still went on to have great careers. Big Ben just won a facking SB with one. If he's a bust, he'll be a bust regardless of their OL. Getting pressure or getting hit and facing pressure wont be anything new to Stafford. He's had three years of it in college.

Now, if Detroit wants to actually be any good, it might be in their best interest to draft a LT. Maybe a couple guards. A center for the future. **** like that.
This post just constantly contradicts itself.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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If David Carr had a decent O-line he wouldn't have picked up so many bad habits as he did getting sacked 10000000000x times... and your also going to tell me if Stafford somehow went to the Patriots without the Patriots losing any key offensive player, ala Matt Cassell he wouldn't be just a little bit better of a player.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Well, their are people like me and Texans fans out there that belive David Carr could have been good had he had an O-line. After taking the beating that he did in his first couple of years he became a completely diffrent QB. He showed no willingness to hold wait for a play to develop because he was afraid to get hit, his carrer went down hill because he had trust issues with his supporting cast. The same thing could happen to Matthew Stafford and it isnt a question of talent but sometimes a team can be so bad a good player can take his game down an entire level and stay there. Heath Shuler is another guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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We should draft a LT in Round 2 next year. Center ain't gonna happen, we signed Dominic Raiola to a 4 year extension a few months ago. The guards can definitely be upgraded though.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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We should draft a LT in Round 2 next year. Center ain't gonna happen, we signed Dominic Raiola to a 4 year extension a few months ago. The guards can definitely be upgraded though.
Why round 2? Jeff Backus is at best mediocre...
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I dont like it either. Then again, I've never been a big Stafford fan. I wouldnt expect one of those good rookie seasons from him. Some good flashes, some really bad plays, lots of INTs. I think Sanchez is more ready than Stafford is.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Why round 2? Jeff Backus is at best mediocre...
Probably because at this point no OT has proven to be worth a top 3 pick where the Lions will almost assuredly be picking.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Yep, thats what they said about David Carr. This is stupid move, unless the OL got 20x better.
As bad as our line my be, it isn't half as bad as that Houston line that Carr played behind. That 2002 Houston offensive line was one of the worst in history.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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We really need to get some help on Defense. Especially on the DL. I also think you can find success in a Round 2 LT just as 'easy' as you can in Round 1. I mean, I wouldn't be terribly upset at a Round 1 LT but I'd prefer going the Round 2 route.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't think there's much risk. Stafford won't be rattled.

This will just get a head start on Stafford/Calvin becoming the most feared QB/WR combo in history.
Calvin/Anybody is one of the most feared combos in history
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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As bad as our line my be, it isn't half as bad as that Houston line that Carr played behind. That 2002 Houston offensive line was one of the worst in history.
I agree but if Stafford gets sacked 40,50,or 60 times expect the same results.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Well, their are people like me and Texans fans out there that belive David Carr could have been good had he had an O-line. After taking the beating that he did in his first couple of years he became a completely diffrent QB. He showed no willingness to hold wait for a play to develop because he was afraid to get hit, his carrer went down hill because he had trust issues with his supporting cast. The same thing could happen to Matthew Stafford and it isnt a question of talent but sometimes a team can be so bad a good player can take his game down an entire level and stay there. Heath Shuler is another guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
I honestly don't buy any of this crap. A good QB is a good QB. Any QB will do poorly if they have a terrible OL, and better if they have a good one.

But a good QB is a good QB. You get them some help, they will play well. All of those guys that are being mentioned, Carr and Joey in particular, had chances later in their career with better teams and were no better themselves. They were just as bad because they were bad QB's. Look at Harrington, not even able to hold a #3 job. That's because he sucks.

You cannot tell me that two or three years of having bad line play ruined them as QB's. If that's true, they were mental midgets to begin with.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he will get sacked that much. Last year all Lions quarterbacks combined got sacked 42 times. We made a slight upgrade to our LG position, Gosder has another year of experience, Stafford has a quicker release than anyone on our roster last year, and he's far more mobile than Jon Kitna and Daunte Culpepper with a bum knee.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't buy any of this crap. A good QB is a good QB. Any QB will do poorly if they have a terrible OL, and better if they have a good one.

But a good QB is a good QB. You get them some help, they will play well. All of those guys that are being mentioned, Carr and Joey in particular, had chances later in their career with better teams and were no better themselves. They were just as bad because they were bad QB's. Look at Harrington, not even able to hold a #3 job. That's because he sucks.

You cannot tell me that two or three years of having bad line play ruined them as QB's. If that's true, they were mental midgets to begin with.
Years of abuse can negatively affect a players psyche to the point where they are unable to get over things mentally at any point in their career. It doesn't happen to all players, but it can happen to some. For the lions sake, I hope that Stafford either a) doesn't take a ton of abuse or b) is able to overcome the abuse he is probably going to take.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he will get sacked that much. Last year all Lions quarterbacks combined got sacked 42 times. We made a slight upgrade to our LG position, Gosder has another year of experience, Stafford has a quicker release than anyone on our roster last year, and he's far more mobile than Jon Kitna and Daunte Culpepper with a bum knee.
ESPN says that they gave up 52 sacks.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...ing/sort/sacks
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't buy any of this crap. A good QB is a good QB. Any QB will do poorly if they have a terrible OL, and better if they have a good one.

But a good QB is a good QB. You get them some help, they will play well. All of those guys that are being mentioned, Carr and Joey in particular, had chances later in their career with better teams and were no better themselves. They were just as bad because they were bad QB's. Look at Harrington, not even able to hold a #3 job. That's because he sucks.

You cannot tell me that two or three years of having bad line play ruined them as QB's. If that's true, they were mental midgets to begin with.
There's a reason young fighters dont get thrown in the ring too early against veteran fighters and they dont run 2 year old horses against 5 year olds. Stafford will be allright because i think they'll manage what he does out there but for me you would bring him in a month in to the season to pick up the pieces from Culpepper.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't buy any of this crap. A good QB is a good QB. Any QB will do poorly if they have a terrible OL, and better if they have a good one.

But a good QB is a good QB. You get them some help, they will play well.
All of those guys that are being mentioned, Carr and Joey in particular, had chances later in their career with better teams and were no better themselves.They were just as bad because they were bad QB's. Look at Harrington, not even able to hold a #3 job. That's because he sucks.

You cannot tell me that two or three years of having bad line play ruined them as QB's. If that's true, they were mental midgets to begin with.
So you do agree? Im confused? And lol at mental midgets? Are you really going to sit there and tell me that if Matt Stafford gets sacked 52 times a year he is going to play well because he is a good QB? Aint gunna happen.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Years of abuse can negatively affect a players psyche to the point where they are unable to get over things mentally at any point in their career. It doesn't happen to all players, but it can happen to some.
Right - the ones who weren't going to be able to take it anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I think maybe Culpepper should have started 2 or 3 games to begin with. Or at least I could have accepted that decision. But the coaching staff is going all in with Stafford because they think he's the best option and as a Lions fan you have no idea how much we've needed a coaching staff that would make some ballsy decisions.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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So you do agree? Im confused? And lol at mental midgets? Are you really going to sit there and tell me that if Matt Stafford gets sacked 52 times a year he is going to play well because he is a good QB? Aint gunna happen.
reading comprehension pls

I said that any QB will play worse with poor OL help. I'm talking about this "oo it'll affect him down the road and ruin his career" thing everyone's saying.

If he is a good QB, then he will be affected by terrible OL play like any QB would, but it won't make a difference in his long-term development, if the Lions get better OL play down the road or he ends up on another team with a good OL, he will play better, unlike these other examples of QBs like Joey or Carr who ended up with better teams later and played just as bad.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Right - the ones who weren't going to be able to take it anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I think maybe Culpepper should have started 2 or 3 games to begin with. Or at least I could have accepted that decision. But the coaching staff is going all in with Stafford because they think he's the best option and as a Lions fan you have no idea how much we've needed a coaching staff that would make some ballsy decisions.
They may not have been able to take it anyway, but they could have been a much better QB had they not experienced that type of abuse. It's all opinion with no way of knowing either way. We'll just have to wait and see if Stafford can handle the abuse we all expect him to take.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I say best of luck, I like Stafford.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Do you hear that? Thats the sound of the Vikings,Bears,Packers secondary crapping their pants. JK

This is not a David Carr situation. Carr had a worse Oline, due to an injury I believe to their starting LT. They didn't have a 1st Round RT either, a center with over 100 starts and a stud good blocking tight end. Kevin Smith isn't too shabby either. Oh and Carr didn't have a super stud WR to throw too either his rookie year with those 70 sacks or whatever he took. Corey Bradford was their number 1 which is just bad and will lead to more sacks if WRs can't get open. I'll take Bryant Johnson and Northcutt over Bradford by a large margin.

Its all about the release. Kitna slow release sacked a ton, Daunte always had a slow release and has always been sacked a ton even in Minnesota, Stanton clueless last year and was sacked 6 times in a game last year. Dan O actually had a decent release and mobility and was only sacked 14 times in 8 games. Stafford will take his lumps but if he is what they drafted, he'll be fine.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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reading comprehension pls

I said that any QB will play worse with poor OL help. I'm talking about this "oo it'll affect him down the road and ruin his career" thing everyone's saying.

If he is a good QB, then he will be affected by terrible OL play like any QB would, but it won't make a difference in his long-term development, if the Lions get better OL play down the road or he ends up on another team with a good OL, he will play better, unlike these other examples of QBs like Joey or Carr who ended up with better teams later and played just as bad.
Lets agree to disagree. Best of luck to Stafford he has all the tools.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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The thing about QBs, is talent can get outweighed by poor development. Yes, there are busts like Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf. But, I still feel if Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, or David Carr had a good situation and time to develop, they may have been superb NFL QBs. Stafford has the tools, he has shown some signs of greatness already, but if this hinders him, it may not matter how "good" he is.
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