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Old 09-07-2009, 09:43 PM    (permalink
BlindSite
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Default Tidbits you probably don't know

I'm sick of threads that have the following:

Predict
List your
Who do you think is

So I decided to make this thread, took me a while going through a bunch of sources but here's some info ya'll probably don't know.

Steve Smith (CAR) was targeted 34% of passing snaps, highest in the NFL Brandon Marshall (DEN) was the NFL's most thrown to receiver nominally

Tony Gonzalez (ATL)
blocked on average one passing play per game in 2008

Kellen Winslow (TB)
Soldiered it up by blocking just 3 times on passing plays in 2008

Braylon Edwards (CLE) dropped over one third of all passes thrown his way

Larry Fitzgerald (Ari) is the NFL's most dependable primary target dropping just 3.14% of passes last year

Jared Gaither (BAL) only allowed 3 hits (1 sack) on his QB all season in 08

Johnathen Goodwin (NO) gave up the least amount of sacks for a C last year with 0

Greg White (TB) played a little over half the number of snaps as Gaines Adams (TB) yet recorded just 3 less hits on a QB and the same number of sacks

Jarrett Johnson (BAL) replacement to Adalius Thomas is probably the league's most versatile defender. Johnson played over 1,000 snaps last year at all 12 positions in the 34 and 43 (ILB/MLB x3, OLB x4, DE x4 and DT (43) at one time or another, the only exception NT in the 34.

Gerald Hayes (ARI) Played over 200 lass snaps than Karlos Dansby by finished with just 3 less stops.

Ahmad Bradshaw (NYG) and Derrick Ward (TB) both averaged more yards after contact than Brandon Jacobs (NYG)

Top 5 most elusive running backs (most missed tackles)
1. DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
58
2. Adrian Petersen (MIN)
52
3. Michael Turner (ATL)
51
4. Marshawn Lynch (BUF) 43
5. Johnathan Stewart (CAR) 35

Pierre Thomas (NO) was stuffed at the line the least of any running back in the NFL

Despite having over 1,000 yards rushing Derrick Ward (TB) had as many TD's as Fumbles (2) last year.

When adjusted for Defensive opponent and situation by football outsiders Adrian Peterson ranks as the NFL's 17th best RB last year.

Over half of undrafted WR Davon Bess (MIA) Yards came after the catch. If not for his short area elusiveness he wouldn't have eclipsed 300 yards receiving or 5 yards per catch.


Sources:
Football outsiders
Pro Football Focus

EDIT:

Chad Pennington (MIA) is the NFL's all time leader in completion percentage with 66%. For having a noodle arm his Passer rating over 20 yard completions is 91.6

Of Fred Jackson's (BUF) 317 yards receiving in 2008 303 of them came after first contact.

Juqua Parker (PHI) had more QB pressures than all but four other players in the NFL.

Leroy Hill (SEA) missed half as many tackles as Julian Petersen (SEA) and one third as many as Lofa Tatupu (SEA)

Chris Gamble (CAR) was targeted more than any other corner in the NFL (124 times) by allowed only 56.6% of completions (less than Darelle Revis (NYJ) who allowed 58.3%). The 70 completed were for an average of 11.5 yards and only 3.6 YAC. Meaning Gamble allowed just 6.5 yards per attempt. Putting him at 9th best for coverage in the NFL.

Eric Wright (CLE) allowed the longest pass against him to go for 28 yards, better than anyone else in the NFL.

Scrabble (OAK) was in coverage on 486 plays last year, he was thrown to 30 times, of those 30 he allowed just 53% completion.

Last year David Garrard (JAC) suffered through 42 sacks and 47 dropped passes.

Greg Jones (JAC) was one of the best pass protectors in the league last year giving up just 2 pressures in 42 plays.

Derrick Mason (BAL) was one of the NFL's most dependable receivers with 68.4% of passes thrown his way hauled in.

Chad Greenway (MIN) should never be in coverage 84% of passes were completed against him, instead he should be turned loose against the QBs of the world (7 sacks) in 08.

Corey Webster (NYG) allowed just 40% of pass thrown his way to be completed, was thrown to the least in the NFL but still deflected more passes. He is the NFCs newest shutdown corner.

Sheldon Brown (PHI)
was thrown to less than Astante Samuel (PHI), allowed less TDs and gave up 12% less completions.

Sack numbers only indicate when a QB is tackled with the ball for a loss behind the LOS, when pressured the ability of a QB falls 37 points (passer rating) effectively. When pressured, Peyton Manning becomes Brad Johnson.

The three best teams last year at preventing pressures from turning to sacks i.e, QBs able to avoid pass rushers once they get off blocks were:
Indianapolis
New Orleans

Denver
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Kellen Winslow (TB) Soldiered it up by blocking just 3 times on passing plays in 2008
Quality stuff but thats definitely my favorite.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Jared Gaither (BAL) only allowed 3 hits (1 sack) on his QB all season in 08
Because he's the most underrated LT in the NFL!!!!
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Stats arent everything.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Stats arent everything.
I'm the first one to agree with you on that, but when a Center doesn't give up a single sack all year, that is a good indicator of his pass protection abilities.

I've always believed stats will lead you in the direction of how a player performs, but will only tell you a small piece of the puzzle.

Now, Goodwin gave up no sacks, and some of that can be attirbuted to Brees efficient throwing, and him being deceptively elusive. But Goodwin still deserves a majority of the credit for not allowing a single sack all season.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Stats arent everything.
Indeed, but this thread is better than the cookie cutter "who do you think is..." threads.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't quite understand the Gonzalez one....is that good or bad? What would like, the average for a TE be?
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Ineed, i just realised my post was a bit of a thread killer XD Soz guys.

On the other hand, concidering the Steelers offence wasnt especially great in any facets...id be interested to see some defensive stats there. Makes you wonder just how much, "defence wins championships."

Oh and good job btw BlindSite!
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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I don't quite understand the Gonzalez one....is that good or bad? What would like, the average for a TE be?
VD stayed in around 14% of the time, one snap per game for gonzo per game is pretty small for a starting tight end, only K2 had less.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm the first one to agree with you on that, but when a Center doesn't give up a single sack all year, that is a good indicator of his pass protection abilities.

I've always believed stats will lead you in the direction of how a player performs, but will only tell you a small piece of the puzzle.

Now, Goodwin gave up no sacks, and some of that can be attirbuted to Brees efficient throwing, and him being deceptively elusive. But Goodwin still deserves a majority of the credit for not allowing a single sack all season.
Yah it's cool and all, but he's a center! Albert Haynesworth got $100 million because he's a good pass rusher as an interior lineman, that goes to show how rare that skill is. Most teams in the NFL don't have a guy line up right over the center and if they do it's to eat up a double team, because that's what centers do most of the time (double team). Gaither giving up 1 sack as a left tackle and only 3 hits is a billion times more impressive than a center not giving up a sack for a season.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm the first one to agree with you on that, but when a Center doesn't give up a single sack all year, that is a good indicator of his pass protection abilities.

I've always believed stats will lead you in the direction of how a player performs, but will only tell you a small piece of the puzzle.

Now, Goodwin gave up no sacks, and some of that can be attirbuted to Brees efficient throwing, and him being deceptively elusive. But Goodwin still deserves a majority of the credit for not allowing a single sack all season.
He really doesn't. He's a decent pass blocker at once. No one outside of Brown and Evans do anything for me as pass blockers to be honest, Brees is insanely elusive in the pocket, and gets the ball out so quick.

I really would like to replace Goodwin a lot.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Well, the Gonzalez one I read as "Tony Gonzalez had the most passing plays where he ran a route instead of blocking." Which, he being Tony Gonzalez, is perfectly understandable.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Yah it's cool and all, but he's a center! Albert Haynesworth got $100 million because he's a good pass rusher as an interior lineman, that goes to show how rare that skill is. Most teams in the NFL don't have a guy line up right over the center and if they do it's to eat up a double team, because that's what centers do most of the time (double team). Gaither giving up 1 sack as a left tackle and only 3 hits is a billion times more impressive than a center not giving up a sack for a season.
Agreed, especially considering that LTs go up against the elite pass rushers, and Centers do have it relatively easier in pass pro (I played OL). I wouldn't say its a billion times more impressive, because giving up 0 sacks is incredibly impressive, no matter at what position, but being a linemen myself, LTs get most of, if not all, the love, and I'm just giving some to my fellow interior O-linemen.

Also, Haynesworth isn't just an interior pass rusher, he does it all...
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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VD stayed in around 14% of the time, one snap per game for gonzo per game is pretty small for a starting tight end, only K2 had less.
I think you'll find that most of the good receiving tight ends are low on the list like Winslow and Gonzalez since they are usually one of the top two reads on any given passing play for their team and those two specifically were probably the most reliable targets on their teams last year and they both line up in the slot quite a bit as well (especially Gonzalez). Most of the passing plays that top tier receiving tight ends block in are probably play action passes or situational passing plays like inside your own 5 or 3 yard line where a sack will probably mean a change of possession and 2 points going to the other team. Kind of a weird stat.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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He really doesn't. He's a decent pass blocker at once. No one outside of Brown and Evans do anything for me as pass blockers to be honest, Brees is insanely elusive in the pocket, and gets the ball out so quick.

I really would like to replace Goodwin a lot.
From watching the saints he is pretty much nothing in run blcoking, so I understand wanting to replace him for sure. But I don't care who you are, 0 sacks over a season (didn't he miss a game or two, not sure) even if it is 14 games is impressive, and very few linemen give up 0 sacks over a period of time that long.

As I said, Brees should get credit, and seniormysterioso spoke about the guards around him as factors as well, but also the factor of his competiton should be counted as well, and there aren't many premier interior pass rushing DL in the NFC south for him to go up against, and that plays a role in it as well. But the majority of the credit should go to Goodwin for giving up 0 sacks in that time.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I think you'll find that most of the good receiving tight ends are low on the list like Winslow and Gonzalez since they are usually one of the top two reads on any given passing play for their team and those two specifically were probably the most reliable targets on their teams last year and they both line up in the slot quite a bit as well (especially Gonzalez). Most of the passing plays that top tier receiving tight ends block in are probably play action passes or situational passing plays like inside your own 5 or 3 yard line where a sack will probably mean a change of possession and 2 points going to the other team. Kind of a weird stat.
I think more than anything it's a testament t the changing of teams' aims at the tight end position.

Time was the Tight End was an extra lineman who occasionally trundled a couple of yards into a zone hole and caught a few yard check down on 2nd and short or first and ten.

Nowadays tight end stables usually consist of a good blocker a good receiver and a veteran or developmental prospect the team is trying to improve to replace whomever is older or declining of the other two. With every team bar a few searching for that special guy like Jason Witten (personally I think he's the best in the NFL) who can do both very well.

The stat is either good or bad depending on how you want to look at it. Either you like having an all round tight end, or you're happy to have an extra receiver. Either way it just shows the propensity some coaches have to use players of a certain type in certain situations.

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From watching the saints he is pretty much nothing in run blcoking, so I understand wanting to replace him for sure. But I don't care who you are, 0 sacks over a season (didn't he miss a game or two, not sure) even if it is 14 games is impressive, and very few linemen give up 0 sacks over a period of time that long.
From the same article, it points out he tends to get overwhelmed by bigger DT's it pointed out Williams from Minnesota and Kemoeatu from carolina in the run game. Against smaller quicker DT's he had no issues in either facet of the game.

I just found it to be an interesting stat considering his statistical performance was actually comparable to Nick Mangold's last year.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Pierre Thomas (NO) was stuffed at the line the least of any running back in the NFL
he's my fantasy team's hidden gem for a reason
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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he's my fantasy team's hidden gem for a reason
It's no wonder how good NYG running game was last year, if memory serves, both their top rushers where above 50% for being stuffed behind the line and within the top 5.

Thomas Jones was also surprisingly good, outside of normal stats, for DVOA and DYAR he was in the top 10.

Portis was like the 2nd best rusher for "effective yards" behind DeAngelo Williams, who had a ridiculously good season in almost every possible category.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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When adjusted for Defensive opponent and situation by football outsiders Adrian Peterson ranks as the NFL's 17th best RB last year.
Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Over the last two seasons, Rian Lindell has not missed a field goal on the road. 31/31, or 32/32 counting the game in Toronto.

At home, he has missed 11 over this same period of time. 22/33 at the Ralph.

Expand it over three years, and there's only one miss on the road with the numbers turning to 42/43.

He has also never missed a PAT on 282 attempts. Pretty sure that makes him the best, though he doesn't have the volume of someone like Elam. Kind of sad when you compare his PAT attempts to someone who has been in the league half as long as he has (Kaeding) or even a third as long (Gostkowski).
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Cool thread, got any more? :)
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.
I dare say a large part of it is the teams we played last year. Colts, Atlanta, New Orleans, Chicago(x2), Detroit(x2), Green Bay(x2) and a couple of others, I'd be surprised if any of them were in the top half of teams against the run which would seriously deflate AD's credit for what he did. We basically played the who's who of bad defensive teams or bad against the run teams.

Which makes how bad our offense actually was all the more scary. On a positive, we also kind of played the who's who of offensive teams and still had a crushing defense, without our star MLB to boot. That's a positive. It also probably goes a long way to explaining the myth that we have/had a great offensive line when we clearly haven't for those watching at home.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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I have to say that I love the Saints stats.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.
As I understand it it's paired in a big way with the performance of the offensive line.

The adjustments fall into how well he did against certain opponents, in certain situations and how successful he was how often. I think a lot of it has to do with how often he ran for a first down, touchdowns vs turnovers, receiving and things like how good the defenses he faced were and how well he performed therein.

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Running backs are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this RB carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.
The next statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.
Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.
The final statistic is Success Rate. This number represents the player's consistency, measured by successful running plays (the definition of success being different based on down and distance) divided by total running plays. A player with higher DVOA and a low success rate mixes long runs with downs getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. A player with lower DVOA and a high success rate generally gets the yards needed, but doesn't often get more. Success Rate is further explained here. It is not adjusted for opponent.
The simple version: DYAR means a running back with more total value. DVOA means a running back with more value per play.
  • These numbers do not separate the performance of a running back from the performance of his offensive line. (You'll find numbers that try to do that on this page.) Be aware that one will affect the other.
  • All fumbles are considered equal, whether recovered by the offense or defense.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

D Williams is number in almost every category except total yards and success rating.

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I dare say a large part of it is the teams we played last year. Colts, Atlanta, New Orleans, Chicago(x2), Detroit(x2), Green Bay(x2) and a couple of others, I'd be surprised if any of them were in the top half of teams against the run which would seriously deflate AD's credit for what he did. We basically played the who's who of bad defensive teams or bad against the run teams.
I think a lot of it is that, but Carolina played similar teams, Atlanta, new Orleans and Tampa x2, and GB, Detroit and Chicago x1.

I think the opponents compared head to head is a bit of a wash, moreover. the idea behind the DVOA and DYAR rankings is to remove the bias that the opponent can provide.

It's designed to show whether or not one RB is better than another even if RB1 has 500 yards but faced the top 13 rushing defenses and RB2 has 1500 yards but faced the bottom 13.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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This is an awesome thread, I sadly don't have anything to contribute. I would have said that Marshall was targeted more times than any receiver last year if that wasn't in the first one.
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