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Old 09-08-2009, 09:05 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Good stuff about Corey Webster. I felt he was a top 5 CB in the league last year. He was absolutely dominant.

He's basically a clone to Terrance Newman when Newman was younger and healthy. He has the same game.

Ross on the other hand, had a disappointing season.
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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these are some interesting tid bits.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Chad Pennington (MIA) is the NFL's all time leader in completion percentage with 66%. For having a noodle arm his Passer rating over 20 yard completions is [b]91.6
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
This is why I love giving pennington credit, for not having a jamarcus russell like arm, but still able to put the ball where he wants it... over 66% completion rate... and how does that make the team work? a very surprising 11-5, which, as much as it's a resurgent defense, it's completing passes, not having cleo lemon, good 3rd down conversion rates... This is what makes a quarterback, not measurables, not intangibles, just ability to put the biscuit in the basket and make drives happen.

i think i beat you on the stat by like 2 days :)

but, in reality, how do you not put pennington as a top 10 qb in a situation like that... passer rating right behind manning and brady... sure, he make the most in his role, which is slightly unorthodox, but.. i really think he was underrated leaving the jets, and underrated on the dolphins.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Ive seen Chad Pennington work his magic the entire time he was with the Jets.

The problem with Chad was he didnt have the arm to survive in Jersey. People just don't understand how hard it is to throw at Giants stadium. Theres a reason why the Jets and Giants have had only Joe Namath and Phil Simms for the past 40 years.

And because of his noodle arm, he couldn't lead your team to a comeback in a 2 minute drill. Put those 2 together, and it just wasn't going to work.


But in Miami, he resurrected his career bc of the weather and he finally was healthy. But even then, he couldnt lead a team when they were down 2 scores in a game. See the Baltimore playoff game as an example.

He's a good qb. But I don't think you can win a championship with him. I like him as a rent-a-qb while your team develops a young guy. Parcells is doing it right in Miami.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
no one's arguing that. he said he didn't get credit for it in denver. he got credit for it everywhere, it's not like it was a big secret.
Perhaps bad choice of words for me. In any case, I was emphasizing his mobility and how he is more elusive than a lot of people think. He is by no means a scrambling QB, but has good short area quickness that enables him to avoid tacklers and make plays.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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He's a good qb. But I don't think you can win a championship with him. I like him as a rent-a-qb while your team develops a young guy. Parcells is doing it right in Miami.
This or build a team around him. Pennington has many skill sets, if you find a way to emphasis them and hide his weaknesses, then you could easily win a championship with him.

Either way though, I agree that Parcells is doing it right. Regardless of who ultimately becomes the franchise guy down in Miami (they're semi grooming Henne, experimenting with White and it's possible they even draft a guy sometime in the future), Pennington is a -great- filler, I'd take him over 12-16 of the current starting QBs in the league.
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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The problem with Chad was he didnt have the arm to survive in Jersey. People just don't understand how hard it is to throw at Giants stadium. Theres a reason why the Jets and Giants have had only Joe Namath and Phil Simms for the past 40 years.
Manning put up the exact same home/away differential as Pennington, Namath, Simms, Collins...

Comp %
Pennington, home/away: 65.7%, 66.3%
Namath, home/away: 49.1%, 51.1%
Manning, home/away: 54.3%, 57.5%
Simms, home/away: 55.2%, 55.6%
Collins, home/away: 57.2%, 58.5%

all are around 1.5% worse at home than on the road...

Pennington at Miami on the other hand is...
65.9% at home, and 69.2% on the road.

Curious?

I think not. Maybe in the kicking game, where wind velocity is MUCH more an issue (due to wind shear forces acting upon a non aerodynamic object)... in the passing game, i don't believe for a second arm strength is an especially valuable commodity especially at the meadowlands...
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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no one's arguing that. he said he didn't get credit for it in denver. he got credit for it everywhere, it's not like it was a big secret.



*shrug* this is why stats are worthless. if it's a pressure after 10 seconds, who cares, the qb or wr should've done something already. if it's only a pressure before that, then it's a far more relevant stat. and i'm not arguing it one way or another, or suggesting that the pressure numbers "shouldn't count". but the metrics used would be interesting.
I didn't write the stats, I just gathered them, it's stuff I've had kicking around that was going to be part of a bigger article I don't have time to write.

AS I said to MOTH, Stats, I agree, are just part of the picture.
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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A RB who caused the most misses isn't necessarily the most elusive. RB's with more carries are gonna have more opportunities to make defenders miss.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
Manning put up the exact same home/away differential as Pennington, Namath, Simms, Collins...

Comp %
Pennington, home/away: 65.7%, 66.3%
Namath, home/away: 49.1%, 51.1%
Manning, home/away: 54.3%, 57.5%
Simms, home/away: 55.2%, 55.6%
Collins, home/away: 57.2%, 58.5%

all are around 1.5% worse at home than on the road...

Pennington at Miami on the other hand is...
65.9% at home, and 69.2% on the road.

Curious?

I think not. Maybe in the kicking game, where wind velocity is MUCH more an issue (due to wind shear forces acting upon a non aerodynamic object)... in the passing game, i don't believe for a second arm strength is an especially valuable commodity especially at the meadowlands...


Its easy to throw a high completion percentage when youre throwing 5 yard passes to TEs and RBs half the time.

Ive seen enough of Chad Pennington in the 5 or so years he was in Jersey to know what he is. Ask any Jet fan if you don't believe me.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Not hating just a couple of postseason thoughts:
  • Tom Brady has never lost a home playoff game (8-0)
  • Kurt Warner has never lost a home playoff game (6-0)
  • Eli Manning has never won a home playoff game (0-2) but is 3-1 away from home
  • In nine trips to the postseason Peyton Manning has lost the first playoff game 6 times
  • Last year was the first time this decade there wasn't a number one seed in the superbowl
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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On TE's like Tony G and Kellen Winslow on passing downs blocking... you guys are saying it like it's a bad thing, I would never have those guys pass blocking... like ever, maybe a chip at most.
+1, I don't want a TE blocking on a pass play either.
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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+1, I don't want a TE blocking on a pass play either.
You basically are saying that between your line and any backs staying in that you have no confidence and require more help. That said, I can understand that a TE who blocks on pass plays more often does make your play action game more dangerous as you can't read off the TE.
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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tony romo had the best qb rating in the 4. quarter with 114,7
i find that really hard to believe.
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:43 AM    (permalink
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A RB who caused the most misses isn't necessarily the most elusive. RB's with more carries are gonna have more opportunities to make defenders miss.

Williams had the 9th most carries in the NFL 103 less than turner and 90 less than Peterson, Stewart had the 28th. Lynch had the 12th.

Williams made more people miss with a hell of a lot less carries.
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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Williams had the 9th most carries in the NFL 103 less than turner and 90 less than Peterson, Stewart had the 28th. Lynch had the 12th.

Williams made more people miss with a hell of a lot less carries.
Now here is where style of running comes in to play I think. Turner may be called a burner, but he breaks a good deal of tackles as well. I'd like to see the combined totals of missed tackles with broken tackles, unless broken tackles is included in the missed category. If that is the case, the numbers seem very low, and there should be more for many of these runners.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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Ive seen Chad Pennington work his magic the entire time he was with the Jets.

The problem with Chad was he didnt have the arm to survive in Jersey. People just don't understand how hard it is to throw at Giants stadium. Theres a reason why the Jets and Giants have had only Joe Namath and Phil Simms for the past 40 years.

And because of his noodle arm, he couldn't lead your team to a comeback in a 2 minute drill. Put those 2 together, and it just wasn't going to work.


But in Miami, he resurrected his career bc of the weather and he finally was healthy. But even then, he couldnt lead a team when they were down 2 scores in a game. See the Baltimore playoff game as an example.

He's a good qb. But I don't think you can win a championship with him. I like him as a rent-a-qb while your team develops a young guy. Parcells is doing it right in Miami.
If Pennington played in a pure WCO, short dumpoffs to the RBs and FB, intermediate routes to the WRs and TEs, I bet he would rock.

His accuracy, intelligence, field vision and mediocre arm strength are best suited IMO for a Bill Walsh offensive scheme.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:49 AM    (permalink
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As I said, Brees should get credit, and seniormysterioso spoke about the guards around him as factors as well, but also the factor of his competiton should be counted as well, and there aren't many premier interior pass rushing DL in the NFC south for him to go up against, and that plays a role in it as well. But the majority of the credit should go to Goodwin for giving up 0 sacks in that time.
I guess that's why the pundits say the Saints have the best passing offense in the league now, by best I think they mean most efficient with regard to less 3 & outs & scoring. The modern NFL is all about pass defense & pass protection, maybe in the salary cap/FA era you can't afford both. Perhaps that's why NO was schizoid, great passing offense but awful secondary & defensing the pass.

Still it's an interesting evolution of the Saints from a running team with former top pick (now unemployed) Deuce McAllister to a passing one beginning with the acquisition of the most beloved by his receivers QB in the NFL, Drew Brees. I think it's b/c he throws one of the most catchable balls in the league, & he brings added value with his game management & team leader skills, that guy is just plain $.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Its easy to throw a high completion percentage when youre throwing 5 yard passes to TEs and RBs half the time.

Ive seen enough of Chad Pennington in the 5 or so years he was in Jersey to know what he is. Ask any Jet fan if you don't believe me.
And?

Most fans are as baseless of their opinions as you are.

LETS PLAY A GAME.

Which quarterback career stat line is which: Eli or Pennington

Yards/Attempt: 6.4
Yards/Attempt: 6.3

Yep. So. Same Y/A... and about 10% greater completion rate... what is it? Both were running first teams... in the same stadium. One has CONSIDERABLY more arm strength than the other... Hell, they have around the same pass attempts and about the same number of starts... (although Penningtons Career is a bit longer)... Why?

Tell me BBD, what is it that makes the meadowlands need a qb with such a great arm strength?
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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i find that really hard to believe.
and that is what makes it so damn interesting

4th Quarter att 109 com 69 pct 63.3 yards 946 tds 9 ints 1 rating 114.7

http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/...s?id=ROM787981
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:48 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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On the topic of corey webster he also lead the league in PDs with 21.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Not a stat or about NFL players, but interesting "tidbit" nonetheless

BYU reportedly has 26 married players on their football team and 26 players with children. Advantage to be 2-3-4 years older than the rest of your competition? I think so...
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Now here is where style of running comes in to play I think. Turner may be called a burner, but he breaks a good deal of tackles as well. I'd like to see the combined totals of missed tackles with broken tackles, unless broken tackles is included in the missed category. If that is the case, the numbers seem very low, and there should be more for many of these runners.
It's both Broken and missed tackles, part of me thinks Williams is so high not just because he's a quick shifty guy but because he's got a nasty stiff arm too.

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Originally Posted by Whistler6 View Post
Not a stat or about NFL players, but interesting "tidbit" nonetheless

BYU reportedly has 26 married players on their football team and 26 players with children. Advantage to be 2-3-4 years older than the rest of your competition? I think so...
I don't know much about BYU but is that the school that has a lot of mormons or former missionaries or something?
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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It's both Broken and missed tackles, part of me thinks Williams is so high not just because he's a quick shifty guy but because he's got a nasty stiff arm too.



I don't know much about BYU but is that the school that has a lot of mormons or former missionaries or something?
yeah its a mormon college, they all have to do some missionary work thats why byu players are often a couple of years older when they enter the draft. i think
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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On the BYU stat, thats kind of cool that you have all those players that are taking care of their families and are still able to compete at such a high level despite some pretty obvious restrictions on recruiting. That's a real credit to the coaching staff.
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