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Old 09-11-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
steelernation77
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Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES View Post
I think he is a good QB but last night he was getting way to much time to throw. IMO the Titans lost that game more than the Steelers won that game. The Titans missed a easy FG and only blitzed more than 4 people like 3 times the whole 4th quarter. Like someone posted earlier you can have a bunch of Asomugha's out there and if you give a QB that much time they will find someone open. If they couldn't run on the Titans then they are going to have a lot more trouble with the Ravens. The more passing plays against the Ravens means more blitzes and more opportunities for Ed Reed to snatch it out the air.
The Steelers have never been able to run on the Ravens and have done pretty alright. 3-0 last season if you don't remember.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's funny how many people just don't get how good Roethlisberger is. Call him a system QB if you want, but he's going to be playing in that system for a long time and he's really good at it. Big Ben and Eli are the two most underrated QB's in the league, by far. They will lead their teams to the playoffs yet again and the doubters will still think their teams win despite them.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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They scored 13 points in 4 quarters and OT, their QB got sacked 4 times, and they were forced to throw because of their abysmal rushing attack. Their offense is going to be bad this year, really bad. They will not be able to sustain a one-dimensional attack and expect to win a lot of games.
Have you been watching the Steelers at all in the last few years? The running game has been pretty awful for awhile and they certainly haven't been able to run against good defenses. This has been a pretty one-dimensional team for awhile.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's funny how many people just don't get how good Roethlisberger is. Call him a system QB if you want, but he's going to be playing in that system for a long time and he's really good at it. Big Ben and Eli are the two most underrated QB's in the league, by far. They will lead their teams to the playoffs yet again and the doubters will still think their teams win despite them.
He will play in a system that gets him hit a lot for a long time? Actually, I don't see much that resembles a system in their offense, their offense is so school yard because of Ben.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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This offense looks exactly like the one we had last year. Too many penalties, sloppy OL play, pathetic run game. Only thing that kept this game from being a blowout was the great defense and special teams.

Ben played great in the 2nd half, 11-11 in th 4th quarter, but he can't do it alone forever. The OL and run game both have to improve just so we can have some stability on offense.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Yea that is what I am saying. Ben isn't going to be able to do that every game. They are going to have to try to get that running game going more. I hope Troy P. falls down some steps and gets more weeks added to them 3-6. :)
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Actually, I don't see much that resembles a system in their offense, their offense is so school yard because of Ben.
He would be the new Favre if the old Favre would ever give it up.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Big Ben is a top tier quarterback, but you can't convince me that anyone could do what he's asked to do as good as he does. He takes a beating back there, and still isn't shy about hanging onto the football a long time.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I will say that the Titans pass rush REALLY exposed how mediocre the secondary is.

yep. you heard it here first (again, i said the same thing last year).
What's your definition of a good secondary then, AQ? If not being able to consistently cover receivers for 5-7 seconds makes you mediocre, then every secondary in the NFL is mediocre.

The whole statement is redundant. It's like saying, "I will say that x-team's poor run-blocking showed how mediocre their RB is."
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Big Ben is a top tier quarterback, but you can't convince me that anyone could do what he's asked to do as good as he does. He takes a beating back there, and still isn't shy about hanging onto the football a long time.
I 2nd that statement. Big Ben isn't a great QB he's just a good one that does what the team needs him to do to win. He does sort of resemble a Brett Farve.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Ok, so Big Ben is a QB who "does what the team needs him to do to win", but he's not 'elite'. Call him what you want, he's what most teams wish their QB was.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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BTW, every team in the AFC North have starting QB's with big time physical talent/potential. That will be a fun division to watch if you like watching big, athletic, strong armed QB's.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Ok, so Big Ben is a QB who "does what the team needs him to do to win", but he's not 'elite'. Call him what you want, he's what most teams wish their QB was.
I'd wager most people don't think he's "elite" because he does things differently than most QBs. Kurt Warner / Peyton Manning / Tom Brady / Aaron Rodgers / Drew Brees / Carson Palmer / Eli Manning / Kerry Collins / Delhomme / Hasselbeck etc. are all unique in their own right, but still do things basically "by the book".

Roethlisberger / Favre / McNabb (I think McNabb is kind of in between the two categories) and a few other guys, all do things a little bit differently. They don't necessarily stay in the pocket, or plant their feet when they throw, but whatever it is they're doing, does in fact, work. It's not what an offensive coordinator dreams of either, but they're generally happy w/ the out come.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Ben Roethlisberger is a good QB, but I wouldn't put him in the elite. I would slot him somewhere near Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb and behind Philip Rivers.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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They really need to clean up the line play. I would love to see Big Ben have time back there consistently to silence the doubters.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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They really need to clean up the line play. I would love to see Big Ben have time back there consistently to silence the doubters.
I'm not sure there's a OL unit in the game that can give Roethlisberger the kind of time he's asking for. He simply holds onto the ball too long more often than most, thereby making his line look worse than it is. Same thing with Parker/Mendenhall. Yeah the line isn't great, but it's no worse than the guys playing behind it.

In other words, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning are very easy to block for. They read the field like it's a traffic light and get the ball out quicker than anyone. They make any line look better.

Ben Roethlisberger is very difficult to block for. He's often very indecisive and just seems to disregard the clock that hangs over every pocket. He makes any line look worse.

Adrian Peterson and Steven Jackson are very easy to block for. They will get theirs behind any unit in the league.

Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall are very difficult to block for because they lack the required vision and burst to make it to the second level on a consistent basis. If you can't find the hole, can't get to the hole at its peak, and can't hit 5th gear through the hole, it doesn't mean the hole never existed.

Some of you need to go watch the game again. On most pass plays, Roethlisberger was given more than enough time to get the ball out. On most of their big plays and even on many of their bad plays, the offensive line provided more than ample time to get the job done. They actually had a solid game, imo.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I 2nd that statement. Big Ben isn't a great QB he's just a good one that does what the team needs him to do to win. He does sort of resemble a Brett Farve.
Thats what people said about Brady before he got Moss and Welker and starting putting up big numbers.

In order to be consider elite you have to put up top numbers and in order to do that you need a great supporting cast. Pittsburgh doesn't have same level of offense talent.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you can plug Ben into any offense and expect him to carry them like I think some other guys can. But he isn't just "doing what his team asks" he makes some plays with shoddy lines that maybe/possibly only HE could make, that's what impresses me most.

He is the best QB to play for the Steelers is what I'm saying, but he is more important than some people like to admit.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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I would not say the Steelers' line is "shoddy." Even he admits he makes them look bad because of his style. The Quarterback makes the O-Line; the Patriots are a fantastic example. Tom Brady (21) was rarely sacked, 5th least in the NFL, Matt Cassel (48) was sacked a lot, 5th most, same line.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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I would not say the Steelers' line is "shoddy." Even he admits he makes them look bad because of his style. The Quarterback makes the O-Line; the Patriots are a fantastic example. Tom Brady (21) was rarely sacked, 5th least in the NFL, Matt Cassel (48) was sacked a lot, 5th most, same line.
for pass pro its not bad, for the run game its pretty bad. He does make the line look bad, but at times the line is bad its self.
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Thats what people said about Brady before he got Moss and Welker and starting putting up big numbers.

In order to be consider elite you have to put up top numbers and in order to do that you need a great supporting cast. Pittsburgh doesn't have same level of offense talent.
I dont think I EVER heard anyone say that about Brady. He had great years with decent receivers. Brady rose to elite status after he proved his first super bowl wasn't a fluke....Big Ben is more on the Trent Dilfer side. He helps the team and wont kill them but the Defense is what carries them.
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Old 09-12-2009, 12:48 AM    (permalink
Flyboy
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I would not say the Steelers' line is "shoddy." Even he admits he makes them look bad because of his style. The Quarterback makes the O-Line; the Patriots are a fantastic example. Tom Brady (21) was rarely sacked, 5th least in the NFL, Matt Cassel (48) was sacked a lot, 5th most, same line.
I think Drew Brees is a better example of that actually.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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I think Drew Brees is a better example of that actually.
I think the steeler O-line is unnecessarily put in bad spots by ben's tendency to hold onto the ball, but gbiven how successful he is when he does have time, maybe theose mofos need to hold the line for another second and let the Steelers get the best of both worlds.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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People need to stop hating on Ben. He is not your conventional qb, but he's still a damn good qb.

Yes, he stares down his first read.

Yes, he can't read defenses.

Yes, he holds the ball too long.

Yes, he makes excuses and fakes injuries.

But you know what he also does? Win. And I don't want to hear that BS that the team wins despite him, bc its wrong. Everyone thinks that a good qb has to be somebody who carries his team. No qb who ever won a SB carried a bad team on his shoulders. If you think that, then you have no concept of how real football (not fantasy) operates.

Peyton didn't win a SB until he relied on his run game, and his defense. Brady won his SBs with a great defense and game managing style.

Aikman won his with a defense and run game. Elway didn't win until he handed off to Terrell Davis.

Get the point? You can't take away credit from a man who has accomplished something. Ben has done what every fan asks of his qb. Win a SB.

He's clutch as hell, and makes great plays with his feet. He gets it done. Yeah, hes staring down Holmes all day, but he has the arm to fling it between 3 defenders and get it to him anyway. And he can scramble around and wait for him to get open then hit him. So while its terribly unconventional and bad practice, the bottomline is he gets it done, and makes it work.

Some qbs crawl into a shell under pressure. I'll take Ben over all of em (all the ones who haven't proven to be clutch that is). I don't care if guys like Romo, Brees, and Cutler have better numbers than him. When the game is on the line, I'd rather have Ben Roethlisberger over all those guys any day of the week. So forget your stats. I want the guy who wins, the guy who makes it happen in the clutch.

I love Brees, but people forget how unaccomplished he is in the playoffs. Cutler never played a playoff game. I can go on and on.

And thats what fantasy football has done to our perception of what a good player is and what he isn't. Everyone forgot what its all really about. I hate stats with a passion, and Ben Roethlisberger is actually a perfect example of how the blogging fan has forgotten what makes a true franchise qb a franchise qb.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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How did a discussion actually occur in this thread? Don't really need its own. Lock em up
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