Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

View Poll Results: Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush?
Darren Sproles 75 69.44%
Reggie Bush 33 30.56%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
CC.SD
Shock Therapist
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,434
Reputation: 1827586
CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
My thoughts exactly. I voted Bush b/c if you swapped them Bush would look great behind SD's line with SD's play selection and Sproles would look pedestrian in the Saints system.

Make the poll question specific - "in their respective system" or "based on talent" and the vote probably changes quite a bit.
I doubt it, people seem to have solidified their opinions about Reggie, and Darren just won't stop playing the hero card.
CC.SD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 02:20 PM    (permalink
wonderbredd24
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 5,190
Reputation: 126663
wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Unless the system Bush is put in makes him play with the heart and toughness of Sproles, he's boned
wonderbredd24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 02:28 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 621
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I have no doubt in my mind that Reggie Bush is probably the most talented dynamic running back we have seen coming out of college in QUITE some time....


That being said think about the idea of Olandis Gary being an 1100+ yard rusher for the Broncos years back....


Reggie is in a TERRIBLE running back offense.... Sure him being so dynamic makes it seem like all he can do is catch the ball split out wide....


But the fact is Bush in a Bronco type running offense, would probably be a sure fire future HOFmer


Darren Sproles like wise, is not NEAR as physically talented as bush, but plays in a RUNNING offense hence why Tomlinson, Turner have played great also in that system


Put Bush in an actual running offense and not an offense that has a QB that has a chance yearly or at least in contention to challenge Dan Marino's records, then we might be able to compare them.


This is an inverse of putting like Jerry Rice in his heyday on a team focused on pounding the ball 40 times a game. And i GUARANTEE we wouldn't be holding every good WR to Jerry Rice's record.


and like wise the term "System player" is EXACTLY what it is....Look at Brees putting up ridiculous stats in Sean Peyton's offense....but 4-5 years ago he was labeled as a bust in SD and hence the drafting of River's.


it comes down to Bush is WAYYYY more physically gifted but is playing in an offense known for throwing....


Being a Bronco's fan i love the idea of running the ball, i love the draft pick of Moreno...

That said the question was who would you take, assuming the player is coming to my team..i would take the better athlete...because at this point the better player is a measure of the player performing for there present team.

Sproles in a system that has had Tomlinson, and Turner blaze the NFL

or

Bush in an offense where the only time he really touches the ball is from his QB that is trying to break Marino's records.


Talent wise there is a reason Bush ran a 4.33, and was the 2nd overall pick...
and Sproles went in the 4th round.


But like i said if the player were to come to MY team i would hands down choose Bush.
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
Moderator
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KO-V>O-V
Posts: 14,837
Reputation: 1045649
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
I have no doubt in my mind that Reggie Bush is probably the most talented dynamic running back we have seen coming out of college in QUITE some time....


That being said think about the idea of Olandis Gary being an 1100+ yard rusher for the Broncos years back....


Reggie is in a TERRIBLE running back offense.... Sure him being so dynamic makes it seem like all he can do is catch the ball split out wide....


But the fact is Bush in a Bronco type running offense, would probably be a sure fire future HOFmer


Darren Sproles like wise, is not NEAR as physically talented as bush, but plays in a RUNNING offense hence why Tomlinson, Turner have played great also in that system


Put Bush in an actual running offense and not an offense that has a QB that has a chance yearly or at least in contention to challenge Dan Marino's records, then we might be able to compare them.


This is an inverse of putting like Jerry Rice in his heyday on a team focused on pounding the ball 40 times a game. And i GUARANTEE we wouldn't be holding every good WR to Jerry Rice's record.


and like wise the term "System player" is EXACTLY what it is....Look at Brees putting up ridiculous stats in Sean Peyton's offense....but 4-5 years ago he was labeled as a bust in SD and hence the drafting of River's.


it comes down to Bush is WAYYYY more physically gifted but is playing in an offense known for throwing....


Being a Bronco's fan i love the idea of running the ball, i love the draft pick of Moreno...

That said the question was who would you take, assuming the player is coming to my team..i would take the better athlete...because at this point the better player is a measure of the player performing for there present team.

Sproles in a system that has had Tomlinson, and Turner blaze the NFL

or

Bush in an offense where the only time he really touches the ball is from his QB that is trying to break Marino's records.


Talent wise there is a reason Bush ran a 4.33, and was the 2nd overall pick...
and Sproles went in the 4th round.


But like i said if the player were to come to MY team i would hands down choose Bush.
1. Tomlinson is a HOFer. No doubt. He was the 5th overall pick and is still the only RB to go for 1000+ and 100 receptions. And back then the OL wasn't even good.
2.Turner was one of the best RBs in the NFL last season, away from San Diego. He's legit, not a case of being a system RB.
3. Bush in Denver would IMO be terrible. He doesn't have the patience to play in a ZBS, and can't break tackles.
4. Running the ball isn't all about physical talent. It has a lot to do with intelligence. Shaun Alexander wasn't the biggest or the fastest, but he won an MVP as a runner and was an exceptional player for a long time.
5. If Reggie is so good, but his offense is so bad, why have Pierre Thomas and Deuce McAllister(soon to be Mike Bell) been able to have more success than Reggie? Deuce was a great back, but Reggie's entire career has been spent playing with post knee surgery McAllister, Thomas is nothing special, and Mike Bell was undrafted and cut twice. Also, that whole argument goes against conventional wisdom that says a great passing game opens up the running game. If Reggie wasn't getting many carries but was still translating the fact that Drew Brees takes so much pressure off of him into 4.0-4.5 ypc, the fact that he is such a dynamic receiver would silence critics and make him a top 5 RB. Unfortunately for him, even with Drew Brees throwing the ball and backing those safeties off, he's still worthless as a runner, failing to do the most important job at his position.
6. Is that the same reason Ryan Leaf went 2nd overall and Tom Brady went in the 6th round...?
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do i tell you when to flip the burger?
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:10 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 621
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
1. Tomlinson is a HOFer. No doubt. He was the 5th overall pick and is still the only RB to go for 1000+ and 100 receptions. And back then the OL wasn't even good.
2.Turner was one of the best RBs in the NFL last season, away from San Diego. He's legit, not a case of being a system RB.
3. Bush in Denver would IMO be terrible. He doesn't have the patience to play in a ZBS, and can't break tackles.
4. Running the ball isn't all about physical talent. It has a lot to do with intelligence. Shaun Alexander wasn't the biggest or the fastest, but he won an MVP as a runner and was an exceptional player for a long time.
5. If Reggie is so good, but his offense is so bad, why have Pierre Thomas and Deuce McAllister(soon to be Mike Bell) been able to have more success than Reggie? Deuce was a great back, but Reggie's entire career has been spent playing with post knee surgery McAllister, Thomas is nothing special, and Mike Bell was undrafted and cut twice. Also, that whole argument goes against conventional wisdom that says a great passing game opens up the running game. If Reggie wasn't getting many carries but was still translating the fact that Drew Brees takes so much pressure off of him into 4.0-4.5 ypc, the fact that he is such a dynamic receiver would silence critics and make him a top 5 RB. Unfortunately for him, even with Drew Brees throwing the ball and backing those safeties off, he's still worthless as a runner, failing to do the most important job at his position.
6. Is that the same reason Ryan Leaf went 2nd overall and Tom Brady went in the 6th round...?
Def. Good counter points


But my point is the system dictates performance, and every now and then you can have a player transcend the system...exe. a John Elway on some TERRIBLE broncos teams early on but still make a HUGE impact.

But Turner was good in SD, showing that there is a common factor that SD has a good Running attack and you can see that with the success of Tomlinson, Turner, and Sproles. I think that fact that Turner is having success in Atlanta, and prior Warrick Dunn was having success also (not taking anything away from Turner) but Atlanta has a system that caters to the Running game, and takes pressure of then rookie Matt Ryan.


And again Running the ball is definitely about vision, patience, and in ALOT of cases having an offense successfully set/call the running game. For instance if you had say a Big Bruiser back and he was DAMN successful, but was then traded to a team that had an offense set up to run sweeps or tosses...his strength would be in between the tackles but he is in a System that is not doing him justice.

In Bush's case, i think its not a talent issue. Its not a vision issue, he had GREAT vision at USC. I think it comes down to the fact that he is playing in a system that is not ideal for his running style, and that doesn't make him any worse then a player playing in a Tailor made system, but shows exactly production is attributed to the system. And in an offense focused on passing the ball majority in most cases would open a running game up...but than again if the running game that the pass SHOULD be setting up is again not designed for the type of player running the ball there is not going to be success.


I guess the way I'm looking at this is for instance, defensively you have a GREAT secondary but with a terrible front 7, then in most cases the secondary even if its super talented is going to get beat time and time again.

or even if you had a terrible secondary and a GREAT front 7, the front 7 would be able to get pressure the QB and make the bad secondary look alot better than it REALLY is...because the scheme allows for a less talented secondary to actually play like a talented group.

So from that example I'm trying to get to the fact that sure it SHOULD work that bush should have all the room in the world to run....but the running game the saint's are trying to employ is not ideal for BUSH.


And I'm not saying he has to play in a specific running attack, but there is a reason the saints are still having dismal running attacks even when Bush is not playing. this goes back to the idea of having a less talented running back but being in a system that fits him and allows him to be successful..exe Olandis Gary in the Broncos Scheme...i would have never argued Gary was better than say at the time a Jamal Lewis, or Ricky Williams...but he was VERY PRODUCTIVE due to the system.


But one last thing the Mike Bell might actually fit what the saints have been trying to find in a HB...does that mean Mike Bell is in any way more talented or a better football player that Bush?


I guess i honestly believe the scheme and system play A LOT into production, exe if you played a 4-3 end as a 3-4 OLB...A LOT of times it just wont work...while a lot of the 3-4 OLBs were 4-3 Ends at one time, they fit better into the 3-4 Scheme, and that said if Dwight Freeney played 3-4 OLB and was not producing...thats a Scheme issue as he is a better 4-3 end.

Last edited by Denver Bronco56 : 09-18-2009 at 03:13 PM.
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:27 PM    (permalink
Stash
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 4,663
Reputation: 676484
Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
3. Bush in Denver would IMO be terrible. He doesn't have the patience to play in a ZBS, and can't break tackles.
4. Running the ball isn't all about physical talent. It has a lot to do with intelligence. Shaun Alexander wasn't the biggest or the fastest, but he won an MVP as a runner and was an exceptional player for a long time.
5. If Reggie is so good, but his offense is so bad, why have Pierre Thomas and Deuce McAllister(soon to be Mike Bell) been able to have more success than Reggie? Deuce was a great back, but Reggie's entire career has been spent playing with post knee surgery McAllister, Thomas is nothing special, and Mike Bell was undrafted and cut twice. Also, that whole argument goes against conventional wisdom that says a great passing game opens up the running game. If Reggie wasn't getting many carries but was still translating the fact that Drew Brees takes so much pressure off of him into 4.0-4.5 ypc, the fact that he is such a dynamic receiver would silence critics and make him a top 5 RB. Unfortunately for him, even with Drew Brees throwing the ball and backing those safeties off, he's still worthless as a runner, failing to do the most important job at his position.
This^

I definitely went with Sproles. About Bush, when you have a player with tons of hype and physical talent combined with a great college career you will get a lot of die hard fans who never hold him accountable for his failures in the NFL. They always find someone else to blame (similar to another player who's last name starts with a V, but that's not what this thread is about;)). We've already seen several people blame the o-line, but as SABF just mentioned, the Saints line seemed fine with Thomas, McCallister and now Bell.
Stash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:36 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 621
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stash View Post
This^

I definitely went with Sproles. About Bush, when you have a player with tons of hype and physical talent combined with a great college career you will get a lot of die hard fans who never hold him accountable for his failures in the NFL. They always find someone else to blame (similar to another player who's last name starts with a V, but that's not what this thread is about;)). We've already seen several people blame the o-line, but as SABF just mentioned, the Saints line seemed fine with Thomas, McCallister and now Bell.

Sure i will agree that Thomas and McCallister and one game Bell has had have been good for the Saints but at the same TIME THEY FIT THE SYSTEM.

If you put Randy Moss on Oakland...oh wait that already happened and was to say the least not productive...or in the College Ranks you take a Option QB and place him in the Pro Style Offense he wont be near as productive as before....


You wouldn't draft a 3-4 DE to play the 4-3 Speed Rusher would you?

You wouldnt draft a 3-4 OLB to play 4-3 OLB
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:41 PM    (permalink
Stash
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 4,663
Reputation: 676484
Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Stash is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
If you put Randy Moss on Oakland...oh wait that already happened and was to say the least not productive..
Moss failed in Oakland because our pass protection was historically bad and he didn't try so that's really not relevant.
Quote:
You wouldn't draft a 3-4 DE to play the 4-3 Speed Rusher would you?

You wouldnt draft a 3-4 OLB to play 4-3 OLB
Just like you shouldn't draft a WR/KR to play RB.
Stash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:50 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 621
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

This whole thread really is speculatory as NJX said it would have to be an Offense that is tailored for a player like Bush, who is a VERY talented player....I do think he could learn to be a One Cut back, as Bobby Turner is one of the best HB coaches in the NFL, but again that is just speculation who knows if Bush would work out..


But Bush i feel like could have played great in the Marshall Faulk type roll in STL back in the day.


And back the Randy Moss Mention, my point what ever the reason he didn't work in the Oakland Offense...and then he goes to the Patriots offense that is pretty much a perfect fit and breaks records....

The oline could have been the issue, the routes, the play calling.....WHO KNOWS...all im saying the same thing is applicable to Bush, the Oline, The down field blocking, the actual plays...WHO knows why he is getting out performed by Mike Bell who wasn't good enough to be the RUNNING BACK IN DENVER of all places, but obviously fits in the saints attack
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,886
Reputation: 659348
Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
Def. Good counter points


But my point is the system dictates performance, and every now and then you can have a player transcend the system...exe. a John Elway on some TERRIBLE broncos teams early on but still make a HUGE impact.

But Turner was good in SD, showing that there is a common factor that SD has a good Running attack and you can see that with the success of Tomlinson, Turner, and Sproles. I think that fact that Turner is having success in Atlanta, and prior Warrick Dunn was having success also (not taking anything away from Turner) but Atlanta has a system that caters to the Running game, and takes pressure of then rookie Matt Ryan.


And again Running the ball is definitely about vision, patience, and in ALOT of cases having an offense successfully set/call the running game. For instance if you had say a Big Bruiser back and he was DAMN successful, but was then traded to a team that had an offense set up to run sweeps or tosses...his strength would be in between the tackles but he is in a System that is not doing him justice.

In Bush's case, i think its not a talent issue. Its not a vision issue, he had GREAT vision at USC. I think it comes down to the fact that he is playing in a system that is not ideal for his running style, and that doesn't make him any worse then a player playing in a Tailor made system, but shows exactly production is attributed to the system. And in an offense focused on passing the ball majority in most cases would open a running game up...but than again if the running game that the pass SHOULD be setting up is again not designed for the type of player running the ball there is not going to be success.


I guess the way I'm looking at this is for instance, defensively you have a GREAT secondary but with a terrible front 7, then in most cases the secondary even if its super talented is going to get beat time and time again.

or even if you had a terrible secondary and a GREAT front 7, the front 7 would be able to get pressure the QB and make the bad secondary look alot better than it REALLY is...because the scheme allows for a less talented secondary to actually play like a talented group.

So from that example I'm trying to get to the fact that sure it SHOULD work that bush should have all the room in the world to run....but the running game the saint's are trying to employ is not ideal for BUSH.


And I'm not saying he has to play in a specific running attack, but there is a reason the saints are still having dismal running attacks even when Bush is not playing. this goes back to the idea of having a less talented running back but being in a system that fits him and allows him to be successful..exe Olandis Gary in the Broncos Scheme...i would have never argued Gary was better than say at the time a Jamal Lewis, or Ricky Williams...but he was VERY PRODUCTIVE due to the system.


But one last thing the Mike Bell might actually fit what the saints have been trying to find in a HB...does that mean Mike Bell is in any way more talented or a better football player that Bush?


I guess i honestly believe the scheme and system play A LOT into production, exe if you played a 4-3 end as a 3-4 OLB...A LOT of times it just wont work...while a lot of the 3-4 OLBs were 4-3 Ends at one time, they fit better into the 3-4 Scheme, and that said if Dwight Freeney played 3-4 OLB and was not producing...thats a Scheme issue as he is a better 4-3 end.
This guy.

Thing is, to get any type of yards, in the Saints running game, you have to be able to fall forward when you get crammed in the backfield. That's Bush's weakness, he doesn't have the leg drive to push huge guys back when he's hit.

If you put all of these guys in a big offensive line (maybe like Dallas or Philly) one that is going to give you plenty of time to get to the second level, then Bush is going to average more yards per carry, because he's so much more dangerous once he hits that point.

Bush isn't a back that can run behind shoddy run blocking where someone gets in and gets a lick every time. Bell/Thomas, those guys are really powerful, they can break a lot of tackles when they don't even have their feet moving yet.

You sure up your line though, and give him time to get out of the backfield, he's going to look amazing, and everyone would be licking his nuts again.

ALSO, send him downfield Sean Payton, every single time a LB is on Bush, he should be motioned out, and sent deep, not used as a checkdown.

His yards per touch is always really high, despite catching everything in the backfield or 1-2 yards past the line of scrimmage. Half of his catches are glorified toss plays, or one where he catches just past the D-line, but just before the linebackers, so then he has to make a linebacker or 2 miss, then get past the DBs, and he's good for 5-10 yards every time... that's our way of getting him past those initial hits in the backfield when Stinch or Goodwin let their man fly in, get him past the line, and great things happen.

Quote:
I doubt it, people seem to have solidified their opinions about Reggie, and Darren just won't stop playing the hero card.
Yup, people love to try and pile on to highly touted prospects.

Anyway, when Bush was healthy, he was number 1 in the league in touchdowns last year before going down with his injury.

I think the trap people are falling into is thinking his passes are sending him downfield, when they are all basically runs to the outside, or like a run to the middle without having to break the D-Linemen.

Love Sproles, but his sample size is pretty small to be honest, and he's never been gameplanned against like Bush is.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
Saints-Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 04:26 PM    (permalink
niel89
SuperBowl Prop Bet Winner
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 2nd deck at Stanford Stadium
Posts: 7,814
Reputation: 1733952
niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

How do you spell Darren Sproles?



__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Don't be a stranger. Jordyzzzz would want you to stick around. ;o)

Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy
niel89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:41 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
#1 Vickscuser
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LakerLand
Posts: 13,130
Reputation: 628697
yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
They should abandon the Reggie Bush-Running back project.
Make him a full time WR and put him in the slot in a Welker-role.
He'd dominate.
I was saying this before he was even drafted. Nobody wanted to listen, though. People were too busy getting ready to induct him into the HOF.
yourfavestoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:08 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: God blessed Texas
Posts: 21,515
Reputation: 4341911
MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
I was saying this before he was even drafted. Nobody wanted to listen, though. People were too busy getting ready to induct him into the HOF.
I 'member.
__________________
MetSox17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:34 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
Moderator
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KO-V>O-V
Posts: 14,837
Reputation: 1045649
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I was in that camp as well. I thought he'd be better than this, but I knew he needed to do some adjusting and wouldn't be able to run around against players as athletic as he was. If you look at the Texas game, save a couple of plays, Bush was bottled up pretty well. That was the best defense he faced, and still not nearly as good and athletic as an actual NFL defense.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do i tell you when to flip the burger?
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:44 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,222
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I really wish you could have set up the poll so we could see what 17 people voted for Reggie Bush.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:45 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
Matt Forte = Baby Marcus Allen
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oktoberfestland
Posts: 19,455
Reputation: 680057
Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
I really wish you could have set up the poll so we could see what 17 people voted for Reggie Bush.
i did. its easier to find Rbs than incredible slot WRs ;)
__________________

Gay Ork Wang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,222
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What I think is amazing is plenty of Running Backs, with less hype, became what Reggie Bush should have been. Not only Sproles, but also Maurice Jones-Drew and Steve Slaton. At least now everyone knows what Reggie Bush is, a Kevin Faulk type, and the hype has all but disappeared.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
gsorace
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,281
Reputation: 94852
gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
Make the poll question specific - "in their respective system" or "based on talent" and the vote probably changes quite a bit.
"Based on talent" Michael Vick is a better QB than Joe Montana.

People need to stop making excuses for Reggie Bush, he's a great athlete but a bad football player.
gsorace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
gsorace
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,281
Reputation: 94852
gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gsorace is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
What I think is amazing is plenty of Running Backs, with less hype, became what Reggie Bush should have been. Not only Sproles, but also Maurice Jones-Drew and Steve Slaton. At least now everyone knows what Reggie Bush is, a Kevin Faulk type, and the hype has all but disappeared.
Don't forget Leon Washington
gsorace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:58 PM    (permalink
Malaka
Thinking of Juan
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 4,143
Reputation: 359133
Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
"Based on talent" Michael Vick is a better QB than Joe Montana.

People need to stop making excuses for Reggie Bush, he's a great athlete but a bad football player.
He's not bad but pretty damn mediocre. I think he should be used differently but this has been discussed time and time again.
__________________

Bone Krusher, the best
Malaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 07:28 PM    (permalink
Bucs_Rule
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,091
Reputation: 36574
Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bucs_Rule is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Bush would make a great slot WR. He's playing out of position.
Bucs_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,915
Reputation: 3938479
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I just don't get it. I really don't.

First off, why should Sean Payton change his offense for Bush? Why? Don't they put up a ******** of points every week? So why should he change the system for a bust RB with a diva attitude who would probably bust anyway?

And for those saying run outside with him, thats not realistic. You can't just run outside all game. Defenses will eat that up in no time. If youre a RB, you have to run between the tackles. Period.

And I don't care what his triangle numbers are, RBs are all about vision. Bush has no vision. So even if you did run outside runs, he'd still suck. The guy has one of the worst visions at RB in the game.

I got an idea, if Bush wants to succeed, why doesn't he learn how to play within the system? Why doesn't he learn how to block? What crime is it to learn how to block?

Let's give it a rest. He is what he is. He's not a very good NFL player. He's a dynamic slot WR/kick returner in a different system. Thats it. Nothing more.

He's not a RB. People need to accept that fact.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
wonderbredd24
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 5,190
Reputation: 126663
wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wonderbredd24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I just don't get it. I really don't.

First off, why should Sean Payton change his offense for Bush? Why? Don't they put up a ******** of points every week? So why should he change the system for a bust RB with a diva attitude who would probably bust anyway?

And for those saying run outside with him, thats not realistic. You can't just run outside all game. Defenses will eat that up in no time. If youre a RB, you have to run between the tackles. Period.

And I don't care what his triangle numbers are, RBs are all about vision. Bush has no vision. So even if you did run outside runs, he'd still suck. The guy has one of the worst visions at RB in the game.

I got an idea, if Bush wants to succeed, why doesn't he learn how to play within the system? Why doesn't he learn how to block? What crime is it to learn how to block?

Let's give it a rest. He is what he is. He's not a very good NFL player. He's a dynamic slot WR/kick returner in a different system. Thats it. Nothing more.

He's not a RB. People need to accept that fact.
I disagree... Reggie Bush has vision as illustrated by his playmaking ability when he has the ball in his hands, but he is a ***** between the tackles. He's Peter Warrick
wonderbredd24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 07:55 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
Moderator
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KO-V>O-V
Posts: 14,837
Reputation: 1045649
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

It's easy to have vision when you catch the ball on the outside and have the phonebooth quickness he has. He'd be a star at WR. Literally, a star. They need to put him there and draft a legit RB.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do i tell you when to flip the burger?
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 08:10 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,429
Reputation: 1183720
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Sproles has shown a lot more and is being used better. That said if Shaun Payton weren't a tard I think Reggie would be looking a lot better.
Yeah, it's Sean Payton's fault the 2nd coming of Gayle Sayers is the NFL's biggest bust since Tim Couch.

Sproles all day, every day.

Call me when Reggie rushes for 1000 yards in a season.

EDIT: Bush fans need to be careful about making too many excuses for him, the fact is he lacks the pure running instincts to be successful in the pros.

Take Clinton Portis, he dominated in a ZBS in Denver, then came to the Skins in the NFCE, which is a smash mouth between the tackles division. It didn't make any difference, Portis still wrecked the league.

Personally I think Bush may be soft and runs a little scared. He's not strong and his game speed is not the huge advantage it was for him at USC.

Reggie Bush is about the same size Marshall Faulk was, and yet they aren't even in the same universe as football players. Faulk also played in a pass happy scheme in St. Louis, but when they won the SB, Marshall rushed for 1300+ yards and had over a 1000 yards receiving.

I don't know why, but as a pro Bush doesn't have 'IT'.

Last edited by FUNBUNCHER : 09-18-2009 at 08:32 PM.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.