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Old 09-29-2009, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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*sigh*

Ben had Whistenhunt
Rivers had Cameron/Turner
Flacco has Cameron
Rodgers has McCarthey
Cutler had Shanny
Kolb has Reid

We had/have Huffnagel and Gilbride...

*sigh*
You also have Coughlin, who is a very brilliant and underrated offensive mind himself.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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The defense is put in a good spot because Flacco and the offense are putting points on the board and keeping them off the field. When you are ahead by a lot, it's easy for the D to sit back knowing that teams are going to pass on them. This Ravens D is not like the Ravens D of old. It is a good defense, but not one that will win games for you every week.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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You also have Coughlin, who is a very brilliant and underrated offensive mind himself.
Coughlin is a very good HC, but he's the kind of guy who needs great coordinators around him, like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher.


He's not really an Xs and Os guy. He's more of a motivator and overall manager of his team.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Coughlin is a very good HC, but he's the kind of guy who needs great coordinators around him, like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher.


He's not really an Xs and Os guy. He's more of a motivator and overall manager of his team.
Who do you know he is not an Xs and Os guy? Did you hear it in an interview or something?
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Who do you know he is not an Xs and Os guy? Did you hear it in an interview or something?
Obviously not, but he doesn't really take charge with our offense, and he doesn't do much if at all with our defense. Our OC and DC do much of the gameplanning outside the basic blueprint.

What Coughlin brought to NY was toughness, teamwork, accountability etc. And thats all great, I have no problem with that.

But he's never wowed me at any point in his 5 years here as an X and O guy.

We never outschemed anyone offensively. We just imposed our will on people. And again, I'm fine with that, but that doesn't make him an X and O genius.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?
With his play calling and schemes that he installs on the field?
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?
Its not his playbook.

Like I said, he's great at teaching the basics of the game, but he doesn't really take control of the playbook.

He's never even taken over playcalling. Even during the dark ages of the Huffnagel years.

I like the guy as a HC, but I think he can be a better one if we had some better coordinators around him.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Obviously not, but he doesn't really take charge with our offense, and he doesn't do much if at all with our defense. Our OC and DC do much of the gameplanning outside the basic blueprint.

What Coughlin brought to NY was toughness, teamwork, accountability etc. And thats all great, I have no problem with that.

But he's never wowed me at any point in his 5 years here as an X and O guy.

We never outschemed anyone offensively. We just imposed our will on people. And again, I'm fine with that, but that doesn't make him an X and O genius.

Again how do you know he doesn't take charge with our offense? Do you or I have an extra headset hearing what goes on? How is he supposed to wow you if you have no idea what goes on in the meetings, or during games without having a head set? Factor in no wide or tight shot angles either, lol. I mean come on, that's just fan talk or fan nonsense in my book.

That falls into the nonsense fans say, such as "he runs the wrong routes".

The fact is no one knows or can say stuff about that unless he, himself, comes on and says, "Look, I am not an Xs and Os guy, that's why I have good coaches around me." If he says something like that, then it's cool. He could be being humble as well. But without that, it's impossible to make a statement like that. You're better than that BBD.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Like I said, he's great at teaching the basics of the game, but he doesn't really take control of the playbook.
nfl players need to know how to play to win the game.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Again how do you know he doesn't take charge with our offense? Do you or I have an extra headset hearing what goes on? How is he supposed to wow you if you have no idea what goes on in the meetings, or during games without having a head set? Factor in no wide or tight shot angles either, lol. I mean come on, that's just fan talk or fan nonsense in my book.

That falls into the nonsense fans say, such as "he runs the wrong routes".

The fact is no one knows or can say stuff about that unless he, himself, comes on and says, "Look, I am not an Xs and Os guy, that's why I have good coaches around me." If he says something like that, then it's cool. He could be being humble as well. But without that, it's impossible to make a statement like that. You're better than that BBD.
Youre right.

But what bothers me is, why has he never gotten on his coordinators, or just taken over the offense?

He only made changes after management forced him to. He's either too loyal to his guys, or just not an X and O guy.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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nfl players need to know how to play to win the game.
whether thats cliche or not, i do believe in it.

i think teams have to learn how to win. some teams know how to win close games (the Pats being the best at it), and some teams just find ways to lose em. I think thats learned, I give coaches credit for that.

a lot of the "lucky" plays the Pats have made over the years aren't lucky at all.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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a lot of the "lucky" plays the Pats have made over the years aren't lucky at all.
this coming from the guy who believes in clutch.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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this coming from the guy who believes in clutch.
ok?

i just said that what people deem as lucky plays made by the Pats aren't lucky at all. They've been conditioned to react at those moments. Those are heady plays. Like week 1 vs the Bills. That wasn't luck. Leodis was dumb enough to take it out, and they ripped the ball out of his hands. It wasn't a lucky fumble, 2 guys went to rip it out and recover it. They knew what needed to be done and they did it. Thats not luck. Thats a well coached group of guys who are ready for any moment.

I don't see what correlation youre trying to make.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Youre right.

But what bothers me is, why has he never gotten on his coordinators, or just taken over the offense?

He only made changes after management forced him to. He's either too loyal to his guys, or just not an X and O guy.
He is the oldest coach in the league and they are old school. So if I am the HC and I give you the play calling duties in my system, then your calling the plays, and adding stuff on your own. I am not going to breathe down your neck and interfere. He could be like that or who knows maybe he does interfere, but the fan wouldn't know it because he has no means of knowing.

1. He is not in the meetings
2. He doesn't have a headset
3. He doesn't have the 2 different views.

I think he is too loyal to his guys. If the guys are good people but stink, it's very hard, if you're old school to go up to someone and fire them. Some coaches have no worries about it. Others feel bad doing it. Let's not forget each person is different and handles stuff like that differently.

But fans should not make statements like that because they don't have enough information to properly come up with that deduction. If you have all the stuff I listed above, then feel free to make those things.

Plus that's not factoring in coaching chemistry or dynamic among the staff. Who gets to create the call sheet each week? All the offensive coaches? Just Gilbride? Does Coughlin help? I don't know, and neither does the fan.

Coughlin's offense is basically a smash mouth offense which relies on the run. Factor in a coach who used to run the Run and Shoot, and that element is added in our passing game. It is what it is.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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ok?

i just said that what people deem as lucky plays made by the Pats aren't lucky at all. They've been conditioned to react at those moments. Those are heady plays. Like week 1 vs the Bills. That wasn't luck. Leodis was dumb enough to take it out, and they ripped the ball out of his hands. It wasn't a lucky fumble, 2 guys went to rip it out and recover it. They knew what needed to be done and they did it. Thats not luck. Thats a well coached group of guys who are ready for any moment.

I don't see what correlation youre trying to make.
Well those lucky plays are usually titled "clutch" plays.

If brady executes in the last 2 minutes and scores. That isnt clutch. That is just a good player executing. You see the correlation?
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Flacco's so good because he's got the best RB in the league on his team. Those juicy thighs just distract the DB's, obv.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Well those lucky plays are usually titled "clutch" plays.

If brady executes in the last 2 minutes and scores. That isnt clutch. That is just a good player executing. You see the correlation?
If said CB's strip the ball, it's because they practice to and are strong enough.
If said DE's bull rush through the tackle, it's because they practice and are strong enough.

it's not clutch. it's good players executing the skills they have. because clutch doesn't exist.

the opportunity to fail and fall apart, aka, the mike vanderjagt syndrome, does exist.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I wish we had Cam as a coach again....but only as a coordinator. He doesnt know how to lead a team but he sure does know how to develop QB's.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:36 PM    (permalink
gsorace
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Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
Fun fact: Relatively unheralded Jaguars linebacker Justin Durant is on pace for 149 tackles (123 solo) and five forced fumbles this year.

He has led the team in tackles every week so far.
Not saying he isn't a good player because i haven't seen him play at all, but tackles might be the most meaningless stat in all of professional sports, right up there with QB rating and saves in baseball.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Devin hester has more receiving yards than Fitzgerald, Boldin, Roy Williams, TO, Roddy White, marshall, edwards and Houshmandzadeh. beast!
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:05 PM    (permalink
Thecollegedropout
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I think you mean David Harris being on Pat Willis level of a MLB/ILB not Jon Beason......
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:06 PM    (permalink
dolphinfan2k5
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Originally Posted by Da-Phins View Post
I wish we had Cam as a coach again....but only as a coordinator. He doesnt know how to lead a team but he sure does know how to develop QB's.
John Beck?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:07 PM    (permalink
Thecollegedropout
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
Embarrassments from the wk:
  • Brady Quinn -- Welcome back to riding the pine.
  • Jason Campbell -- Almost singlehandedly broke the Lions 16-game losing streak
  • Bobby Carpenter -- Can't tackle your grandmother
  • Vikings FG team -- Walk them thru it again, it's all about blocking the rushers
  • Carolina DBs missed tackles -- See Carpenter comment, above
  • Jake Delhomme -- clinging to the Turnover King crown with 17 of them since the 08 playoff loss
  • Entire Rams team -- The Sheep are neck in neck with Cleveland for the #1 pick next April
Not that he is an embarrassment to the Jets but Ryan Mouton cost the Titans 14 pts and what was the game.

He gets the embarrassment gameball of the week hands down.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:07 PM    (permalink
Sniper
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
If we're speaking of underrated ILBs, to me, the most unappreciated MIKE is easily David Harris.

David Harris in my eyes, is better than Patrick Willis.

He's played like it thus far in his career, the only reason why he doesn't get the recognition that Willis gets is because he doesn't have the workout numbers that Willis has.

But Harris is the best 3-4 ILB in the game, arguably the best inside backer in the league.
You're so wise.
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