Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-03-2009, 03:03 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,194
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Nepg, I'll make this simple since apparently I missed the crux of your argument.

Why is Randy Moss in your opinion a better WR than Jerry Rice??
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 03:12 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,194
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Moss experienced 6 years of bad to below average teams around him.
Moss only played on one Vikings team that wasn't in the top 10 in scoring.

At worst, he played on three bad offensive teams his entire career, so what??

Plenty of WRs have played on bad offensive teams and put up great numbers.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 03:17 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: God blessed Texas
Posts: 20,992
Reputation: 3952661
MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

You're terribly wrong if you think Jerry Rice was the best WR in the NFL for 20 years.
__________________
MetSox17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 03:25 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
Matt Forte = Baby Marcus Allen
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oktoberfestland
Posts: 19,455
Reputation: 680057
Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
You're terribly wrong if you think Jerry Rice was the best WR in the NFL for 20 years.
basically, more like 10-13
__________________

Gay Ork Wang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 05:36 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 20,758
Reputation: 1970779
LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I can't remember ever hearing Moss described as a 'leader' on any team he's played on, bigbluedefense. He's a respected vet because of his talent, but leadership skills have always been low on Moss' list of attributes.

There's a laundry list of NFL players who give Jerry Rice credit for teaching them how to train and workout like pros in the offseason, to improve on their games and how to always seek an edge through superb conditioning and route running technique.

Randy Moss is without question the greatest physical specimen, outside of Calvin Johnson, to ever play the WR position, but I don't think he'll ever be considered the greatest WR to play the game.
He's had too many seasons where the only impact he had on his team were stats, but was unable to elevate the overall performance of his team, especially his last years in Minnesota.

And his time in Oakland where he basically flipped a middle finger to the Raiders franchise will not be soon be forgotten.

To illustrate why Moss will fall far short in almost any comparison to Rice, let's compare their careers in Oakland.
Moss played for the Raiders still well in his prime, (28 and 29 yrsold), and had seasons of 60/1005/8 TDs and 42/553/3 TDs.

Rice played for Oakland well PAST his prime, ( 39, 40, and 41 yrsold), and had seasons of 83/1139/9 TDs, 92/1211/7 TDs, and 63/869/2 TDs.

Randy Moss is a nice player, a great player to be sure and future HOFer, but he's no Jerry Rice.

So I guess it doesn't matter that Rice played alongside Tim Brown, Jerry Porter, with Rich Gannon slinging the ball around right? Randy Moss was catching passes from Andrew freakin' Walters with an attrocious offensive line.


I'm not saying Moss is or will be better then Rice, but put Jerry Rice on that team and ask yourself what his stats would be.
__________________





Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
LonghornsLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 08:01 PM    (permalink
nepg
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,473
Reputation: 1534391
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Not to mention Taylor and a host of great TE's, RB's, the greatest QB ever, another HoF QB, and a QB that would have been an HoFer if he hadn't finally gotten a chance to start so late in his career...
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 08:09 PM    (permalink
Borat
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The NFC West. Where people play defense.
Posts: 10,829
Reputation: 2349248
Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Not to mention Taylor and a host of great TE's, RB's, the greatest QB ever, another HoF QB, and a QB that would have been an HoFer if he hadn't finally gotten a chance to start so late in his career...
I've been struggling to figure out who you are talking about. Garcia maybe? Either way, there definitely hasn't been another HOF-potential QB in SF since Young. Come on man, that's just silly.
__________________


I'm sorry Brian Sabean. I was wrong. I think I might have been right, but you have Scoreboard.
Borat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 08:35 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,194
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think nepg is talking about Rich Gannon.

Great WRs still put up stats on bad teams. It happens all the time. It happened last year with Calvin Johnson playing for the worst team in the history of the league.

I don't know why Randy Moss gets a pass for dogging it in Oakland. He quit on those teams, and I can't count the amount of times I saw Moss jog from the line at the snap when he played for the Raiders.

Why do you think the Pats were able to get a future HOFer in his prime for a 4th round pick? Because everyone knew his putrid perfomance wasn't the fault of the QB or because he played on a bad team. All the questions most teams had were about Moss and his desire and passion for the game. If he even cared about being a great player or not.

And for those who say a fortysomething Jerry Rice benefited by playing in Oakland with other talented WRs, logic says Jerry Rice's numbers would have decreased, he should not have continued to produce at an pro bowl level with supposedly fewer opportunities to catch the ball. And didn't Moss play with Jerry Porter too?

And are Montana and Young lesser QBs because they played in an offensive machine in SF?? I don't understand why people argue Moss never benefited from not having a HOF QB. He still played with a good QB in Minnesota and a future HOFer in NE. Besides, how talented does a QB need to be to get Randy Moss the ball? He only runs one route anyway.

Look, Moss may eclipse some of Rice's numbers, maybe he won't. But IMO people will be hard pressed to make a credible case that Moss is a better WR than Rice. Potentially equal numbers and better physical tools doesn't make you the best WR, it just puts you in the discussion.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 08:44 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,198
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Moss was injured a lot of his time in Oakland. He had nagging hamstring issues that had people thinking he was "done" and no longer had that game-breaking ability.

Not too mention it was one of the most dysfunctional offenses in recent memory. Let us never forget the Art Shell/Tom "Bed & Breakfast" Walsh offensive juggernaut.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: R4L 3:16 says I just whipped your ass
Posts: 12,707
Reputation: 2783873
Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
So I guess it doesn't matter that Rice played alongside Tim Brown, Jerry Porter, with Rich Gannon slinging the ball around right? Randy Moss was catching passes from Andrew freakin' Walters with an attrocious offensive line.


I'm not saying Moss is or will be better then Rice, but put Jerry Rice on that team and ask yourself what his stats would be.
Andre Johnson was catching passes from David Freakin Carr, Calvin Johnson was catching passes from Dan Orlovski Drew Stanton Daunte Culpepper and i think i'm forgetting 1 more QB.
__________________

Props to BK for the sig
"Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict, half animal half man"
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's because we're the only animal capable of getting it from other animals. the day a goat can milk cows, it will.
Raiderz4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:03 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,439
Reputation: 197475
Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Not too mention it was one of the most dysfunctional offenses in recent memory. Let us never forget the Art Shell/Tom "Bed & Breakfast" Walsh offensive juggernaut.
Seriously. We're talking about one of the worst offenses of the last 20 years of football here (which, coincidentally, was the last time anyone had tried to run that sort of scheme in the NFL).
Paranoidmoonduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 12:29 AM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,856
Reputation: 659348
Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Seriously, why are we even talking about what either did in Oakland? I don't want to even talk about which guy was better at his worst.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
Saints-Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.