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Old 10-12-2009, 01:53 PM    (permalink
Bengalsrocket
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post

If the Bengals get out of Week 10 with the AFC North lead, count me as a believer. They have a rough stretch coming up.

We just got out of a tough stretch :( Divisional games in the AFC North are always tough and emotional, and we just cleared out all 3 divisional rivals in a row.

I think Houston is a weaker opponent than the Ravens and the Steelers by a lot. Chicago is playing well, and maybe they're equal to the Ravens and Steelers as far as talent goes, but they're not better. And then we replay Ravens at home.

These 3 games, in theory, should be easier than our last 3. Next up from there is a tough divisional game against the Steelers, followed by 3 easy ones in Oakland, Cleveland & Detroit.

Even if we lose to the Ravens and Steelers, despite beating them in our first meeting, and Chicago takes us down. We could still be 8-4 by week 13. And that's assuming we don't win any of our hard match ups.


P.S. this was post 1,000 zomg

Last edited by Bengalsrocket : 10-12-2009 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
ThePudge
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
-The Bengals are forreal. And more importantly, Cedric Benson is a legit MVP candidate this year.

Yes. Cedric Benson.

Cedric Benson.

Who wouldve thought that? I was a big believer in the guy and thought he'd rejuvenate his career with the Bengals. I saw him run harder and faster than he ever did with the Bears, but I didn't expect him to be THIS good. He's a beast. I had him as my fantasy sleeper, and he's treating me pretty good right now ;)

Oh, and someone rep Rosebud for me. I said since last year that the Bengals were an up and coming team, but I didn't realize it until after they played the Giants last year. I remember prior to that game Rosebud kept telling me, don't sleep on the Bengals defense, and I was like yeah whatever. After teh game though, I became a believer. I knew that team was legit and would bounce back after seeing them play.

And they are. Theyre a good team despite Carson Palmer looking very mediocre this year. Theyre winning with defense and the run game.

Speaking of which, lets give Jonathan Joseph some love. We know about Corey Webster's dramatic turnaround (top 3 CB in the league imo behind Nmandi and Revis), but Joseph has made an impressive turnaround himself. He's been a damn good CB for 2 years now.
Cedric Benson's a Pro Bowl caliber runner if he gets enough help from our offensive line and stays healthy. MVP? No. Cedric's 2nd in line for the MVP of his own team, to a quarterback you referred to as having a mediocre year.

Your assessment of the Bengals is all wrong. They're competing because of their defense and running game, they're winning because of Carson Palmer. Mediocre? Not unless you're looking just at numbers. 4 Games, 4 Drives, and 4 times Carson has put this team on his back and fought to win the game. It would have been 4 wins if it had not been for that debacle against Denver. Where have you been? Carson is and continues to be the heart and soul of the Bengals. The guy is not getting the credit he deserves, it's pretty crazy.

Sorry for getting a little heated, I'm just a little tired of people looking at the numbers and assuming things about the Bengals. Some of us have watched every game, and know that the final statistics don't tell the story. Unless you witnessed Palmer's 4 drives...

vs. Denver -
11 plays 91 yds in 5:43. 6/6 69 yds; 1 car 2 yds. Puts the Bengals up 7-6 with 38 seconds left.

vs. Pittsburgh -
16 plays 71 yds in 5:00. 7/11 59 yds 1 Td; 1 car 1 yd. Game Winning 4 Yard Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 0:14 remaining. 2/2 on fourth downs.

@ Cleveland -
To put it into OT: 10 plays 70 yards in 4:39. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td. Game Tying 2 Yard Td pass to Chad Ochocinco on fourth down with 1:55 remaining.

To win: 13 plays 67 yards in 3:19. 4/8 51 yds; 1 carry 15 yds. 15 yard run on 4th and 11 to set up the GW FG.

@ Baltimore -
11 plays 80 yds in 1:53 - Td. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td; 1 car 6 yds. Game Winning 20 yd Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 22 seconds left. 1/1 4th Down Conversions.

Carson's the best Bengal and is being severely overlooked with the talk about the defense and running game. He's the miracle man and he's the reason we have any wins at this point. He's shown ability past any statistical category and is one of the most intangibly sound and gutsiest quarterbacks in the league. The word "poise" comes to mind and the word "clutch" has been ringing in my ear since Week Two.

That all being said, I liked your write-up as a whole. Just have been a bit annoyed at the lack of respect for the Bengals heart and soul and chose to illustrate it here.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
Vox Populi
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I've been all over the Bengals nuts since the first Hard Knocks episode this year. I knew that the offense would be much more competent with a fired up Ochocinco and a healthy Palmer along with a revitalized Cedric Benson. If you couldn't see Benson was becoming what he was supposed to be coming out of UT you must not have watched any Bengals games last year (I don't blame you, they were awful with Fitzpatrick). People who were paying attention could also see that their defense is much better with the way they've drafted and the way Mike Zimmer has helped change the culture on the defensive side of the ball there. Zimmer deserves as much credit as Gregg Williams is getting in New Orleans right now in my opinion.

If you've been paying attention to the Bengals since last year you could see it coming that they would be a much better and complete football team. Now, I didn't see them being first in their division, even this early in the season and now that the Steelers offense has found it's rhythm they will be a tough, but at this point, it looks like the Bengals have a great shot at going 5-1 in the division because I still think they'll pull out two victories with one against the Steelers or Ravens. If they go 5-1 in the division it will be hard for them not to win the division. They aren't going to be a Super Bowl contender probably, and I think the Steelers are the best team in the division still and way better suited to perform in the playoffs, but hey, anything can happen. It could be the Bengals year.

Oh, if you couldn't tell, since the Bills season is toast already I'm a Bengals fan now lol. I think the Bengals go 11-5 and 5-1 in the division and will be the 3rd seed in the AFC (Colts 1st, Broncos 2nd).

I have to admit that I am eating some serious McDaniels crow as well. I bought into the media hate fest way too easily. Of course being on the message board doesn't help either for all of the irrational Cutler love there has been since he was a prospect coming out of Vandy. I thought McDaniels was going to be terrible with the way that offseason went and I thought that their roster lacked serious talent all over the place and thought that their defense had no chance of improving with a transition to the 3-4 with a lot of missing pieces. The offense obviously has talent but I just didn't give the team enough respect and now I'm eating a hefty serving of crow :(

I mean, everyone knew he had a lot of potential as a coach on the field, but the way he handled the off-season just turned just about everyone off on him and the Broncos. Guess its working out for them though and I've got to give credit where credits due.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:32 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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While I agree that for most of Brady's career he wasn't putting up significantly better number than he's on pace for right now, but never in his career was he as inaccurate as he has been this year. In this past what kept his numbers down was a lack of weapons and dink and dunk passing scheme, not his accuracy. This year he has the weapons and dangerous passing scheme but not the accuracy. I think he'll get that accuracy back as he gets more comfortable, since he seems to get rattled by pressure like he never used to, and when that happens we'll see 2007 Brady again, not the same production but that same leet player.

As for Dallas I totally agree, we are so banged up that if players keep dropping like flies I think we might get taken out of that race by injuries and philly hasn't exactly been healthy themselves. While both teams are better than Dallas atm both would sure gladly give up a win or two to have Dallas' health and that could determine the NFC East this year.

I'm going to talk about the Bills even though they've been miserable for a second. How bad has that coaching staff been? Granted they are being held back by a young and under-talented offensive line, but last season they started Langston Walker at LT for periods of time and they weren't so impotent. To me the problem is jauron, he can get a bad/mediocre team to be motivated to succeed as an underdog, but he can not take a good/talent team and make them excel. Add to that a poor OC and a QB who's been rattled badly and you have the embarassment that is this years buffalo bills. That said if that team gets healthy and gets a good coaching staff I could see them competing for the AFC East next season, provided the bring in the right personnel in the offseason, i.e. a new LT, bring back Reed to be that possession guy and bolster their defensive depth. They need to change that environment and start holding themselves to a higher standard because they have a lot of talent on both sides of the ball.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
Vox Populi
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I think with respect to the way Brady is playing, some amount of it can be attributed to losing McDaniels this off-season. McDaniels was Brady's QB coach and then the offensive coordinator that made Brady an MVP and got Cassel a big pay day. Maybe losing McDaniels did hurt the Pats offense because I don't think this offense is even as good as the one that Cassel was running last season with McDaniels. Sure its easier to say this after McDaniels goes 5-0, Orton is playing pretty solid football and Brady looks much worse though...
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:40 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Cedric Benson's a Pro Bowl caliber runner if he gets enough help from our offensive line and stays healthy. MVP? No. Cedric's 2nd in line for the MVP of his own team, to a quarterback you referred to as having a mediocre year.

Your assessment of the Bengals is all wrong. They're competing because of their defense and running game, they're winning because of Carson Palmer. Mediocre? Not unless you're looking just at numbers. 4 Games, 4 Drives, and 4 times Carson has put this team on his back and fought to win the game. It would have been 4 wins if it had not been for that debacle against Denver. Where have you been? Carson is and continues to be the heart and soul of the Bengals. The guy is not getting the credit he deserves, it's pretty crazy.

Sorry for getting a little heated, I'm just a little tired of people looking at the numbers and assuming things about the Bengals. Some of us have watched every game, and know that the final statistics don't tell the story. Unless you witnessed Palmer's 4 drives...

vs. Denver -
11 plays 91 yds in 5:43. 6/6 69 yds; 1 car 2 yds. Puts the Bengals up 7-6 with 38 seconds left.

vs. Pittsburgh -
16 plays 71 yds in 5:00. 7/11 59 yds 1 Td; 1 car 1 yd. Game Winning 4 Yard Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 0:14 remaining. 2/2 on fourth downs.

@ Cleveland -
To put it into OT: 10 plays 70 yards in 4:39. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td. Game Tying 2 Yard Td pass to Chad Ochocinco on fourth down with 1:55 remaining.

To win: 13 plays 67 yards in 3:19. 4/8 51 yds; 1 carry 15 yds. 15 yard run on 4th and 11 to set up the GW FG.

@ Baltimore -
11 plays 80 yds in 1:53 - Td. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td; 1 car 6 yds. Game Winning 20 yd Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 22 seconds left. 1/1 4th Down Conversions.

Carson's the best Bengal and is being severely overlooked with the talk about the defense and running game. He's the miracle man and he's the reason we have any wins at this point. He's shown ability past any statistical category and is one of the most intangibly sound and gutsiest quarterbacks in the league. The word "poise" comes to mind and the word "clutch" has been ringing in my ear since Week Two.

That all being said, I liked your write-up as a whole. Just have been a bit annoyed at the lack of respect for the Bengals heart and soul and chose to illustrate it here.
While I don't disagree I think it's a tough situation. To an outside the clear reason you guys are still in games late for Carson to pull of those drives is that the defense is playing very well and Benson has stolen Brandon Jacobs' ogre powers, and carson isn't playing very well the first three quarters. That said I completely agree that you need to give Carson all of the credit in the world for those late drives, but he's going through what eli had to go through where he'll be criticized for not making that magic happen sooner so that he doesn't need to pull the game out at the last minute. Mediocre was harsh, but I think it's fair to say that he is under-achieving and if he could start leading drives like those late drives earlier in the game a lot of us would feel a lot better about the Bengals as a team that could make some real noise in the playoffs. That said it's a long season and there's still plenty of time for Carson to get on a role or for injuries to strike and that team to fall apart, so it should be fun watching this play out.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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I think with respect to the way Brady is playing, some amount of it can be attributed to losing McDaniels this off-season. McDaniels was Brady's QB coach and then the offensive coordinator that made Brady an MVP and got Cassel a big pay day. Maybe losing McDaniels did hurt the Pats offense because I don't think this offense is even as good as the one that Cassel was running last season with McDaniels. Sure its easier to say this after McDaniels goes 5-0, Orton is playing pretty solid football and Brady looks much worse though...
While I think you might be right, it's premature to say because of just how much worse Tom Brady is playing, he's not setting up his throws well and his accuracy is terrible. The only time I've seen Tom Brady play this rattled was when my giants decided to put on a pass rushing clinic in the superbowl. I hope he is able to get over this and settle down in the pocket and think in time he will. Once Brady is the Brady of yore we'll be able to fairly determine just how much of an impact SexDanielz had.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Cedric Benson's a Pro Bowl caliber runner if he gets enough help from our offensive line and stays healthy. MVP? No. Cedric's 2nd in line for the MVP of his own team, to a quarterback you referred to as having a mediocre year.

Your assessment of the Bengals is all wrong. They're competing because of their defense and running game, they're winning because of Carson Palmer. Mediocre? Not unless you're looking just at numbers. 4 Games, 4 Drives, and 4 times Carson has put this team on his back and fought to win the game. It would have been 4 wins if it had not been for that debacle against Denver. Where have you been? Carson is and continues to be the heart and soul of the Bengals. The guy is not getting the credit he deserves, it's pretty crazy.

Sorry for getting a little heated, I'm just a little tired of people looking at the numbers and assuming things about the Bengals. Some of us have watched every game, and know that the final statistics don't tell the story. Unless you witnessed Palmer's 4 drives...

vs. Denver -
11 plays 91 yds in 5:43. 6/6 69 yds; 1 car 2 yds. Puts the Bengals up 7-6 with 38 seconds left.

vs. Pittsburgh -
16 plays 71 yds in 5:00. 7/11 59 yds 1 Td; 1 car 1 yd. Game Winning 4 Yard Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 0:14 remaining. 2/2 on fourth downs.

@ Cleveland -
To put it into OT: 10 plays 70 yards in 4:39. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td. Game Tying 2 Yard Td pass to Chad Ochocinco on fourth down with 1:55 remaining.

To win: 13 plays 67 yards in 3:19. 4/8 51 yds; 1 carry 15 yds. 15 yard run on 4th and 11 to set up the GW FG.

@ Baltimore -
11 plays 80 yds in 1:53 - Td. 4/7 49 yds 1 Td; 1 car 6 yds. Game Winning 20 yd Td pass to Andre Caldwell with 22 seconds left. 1/1 4th Down Conversions.

Carson's the best Bengal and is being severely overlooked with the talk about the defense and running game. He's the miracle man and he's the reason we have any wins at this point. He's shown ability past any statistical category and is one of the most intangibly sound and gutsiest quarterbacks in the league. The word "poise" comes to mind and the word "clutch" has been ringing in my ear since Week Two.

That all being said, I liked your write-up as a whole. Just have been a bit annoyed at the lack of respect for the Bengals heart and soul and chose to illustrate it here.
I only saw the Denver drive, but I've been paying close attention to everything else. It's pretty amazing. It's like he can just turn on the clutch and close out games. But it is strange, because statistically he's been mediocre when it's not his team's last drive. We should bring this into the "is there such thing as clutch?" discussion because this is some damn good evidence in favour.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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I only saw the Denver drive, but I've been paying close attention to everything else. It's pretty amazing. It's like he can just turn on the clutch and close out games. But it is strange, because statistically he's been mediocre when it's not his team's last drive. We should bring this into the "is there such thing as clutch?" discussion because this is some damn good evidence in favour.
I saw Eli go through the same thing, which is why I laugh whenever someone tries to tell me there's no such thing as clutch. Hell even early brady was the same way, he'd just dink n dunk until the pressure was on and then he'd drive his team as though he were playing catch with some buddies.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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-The Bengals are forreal. And more importantly, Cedric Benson is a legit MVP candidate this year.

Yes. Cedric Benson.

Cedric Benson.

Who wouldve thought that? I was a big believer in the guy and thought he'd rejuvenate his career with the Bengals. I saw him run harder and faster than he ever did with the Bears, but I didn't expect him to be THIS good. He's a beast. I had him as my fantasy sleeper, and he's treating me pretty good right now ;)

Oh, and someone rep Rosebud for me. I said since last year that the Bengals were an up and coming team, but I didn't realize it until after they played the Giants last year. I remember prior to that game Rosebud kept telling me, don't sleep on the Bengals defense, and I was like yeah whatever. After teh game though, I became a believer. I knew that team was legit and would bounce back after seeing them play.

And they are. Theyre a good team despite Carson Palmer looking very mediocre this year. Theyre winning with defense and the run game.

Speaking of which, lets give Jonathan Joseph some love. We know about Corey Webster's dramatic turnaround (top 3 CB in the league imo behind Nmandi and Revis), but Joseph has made an impressive turnaround himself. He's been a damn good CB for 2 years now.
Give Ceddie his due as he has been fantastic for us to this point, but the thing I have been most impressed with is our reshuffled OL. We have former LG Andrew Whitworth now playing LT, Evan Mathis replacing incumbent Nate Livings at LG, UDFA Kyle Cook at Center, and newbie Dennis Roland playing RT. The only starter returning at the same spot is Bobbie Williams at RG. They have been much better than expected in all phases.

Agreed on the JJ mention. When healthy he is a very good player with all the skills to become one of the best in the league but injuries have really held him back the last two years. Paired with Leon Hall, they could be one of the better duos in the league with time.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Great writeup like usual. Always enjoy these.

Thank you for mentioning Tamba Hali. Most thought it would be a rough transition for him moving to 3-4 OLB but he has shown flashes. He lost weight, he is working hard, and he is going to stick there. Gotta root for a guy that plays as hard as he does every play.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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While I think you might be right, it's premature to say because of just how much worse Tom Brady is playing, he's not setting up his throws well and his accuracy is terrible. The only time I've seen Tom Brady play this rattled was when my giants decided to put on a pass rushing clinic in the superbowl. I hope he is able to get over this and settle down in the pocket and think in time he will. Once Brady is the Brady of yore we'll be able to fairly determine just how much of an impact SexDanielz had.
To me the Pats just arent the team they were two years ago, on either side of the ball. They easily could have lost the Buffalo and Baltimore. Brady doesnt have the time to throw and to me Moss looks timid. Just my take.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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To me the Pats just arent the team they were two years ago, on either side of the ball. They easily could have lost the Buffalo and Baltimore. Brady doesnt have the time to throw and to me Moss looks timid. Just my take.
I agree. I just think we can't really tell how different they are because of how off Brady has been. That OL has never been great but Brady used to have such great pocket presence that it didn't matter whether he got 6 seconds or 2, he'd still avoid the pressure and set himself up to make a great throw. He's just not doing that this season.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Perhaps my words were a little misleading.

Im not doubting the importance of Carson's game winning drives, they have been huge for this team. And I am personally a believer in clutch, and yes Carson has been clutch this season.

But he's not the MVP of the team bc of it. I can make the case that, if Benson hasn't been performing the way he has, this team wouldn't be put in those clutch situations to begin with, and I can make a strong case that without Benson chewing up the clock and keeping the defense off the field, this team could just as likely be 0-5 as it is 4-1.

Carson has been clutch. But that doesn't make him the MVP of the team. He has been mediocre in the game up to those clutch moments. How many pick 6s has he thrown this year? I can't call him the MVP of the team when he's been average outside of the last drives of the game.

Now, to clarify, mediocre means average. It sounds harsher than it really is.

of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate. per dictionary.com

Ordinary. Carson has been ordinary this year. But thats ok. Ive seen Eli be an ordinary qb for 3 quarters and show up clutch in the 4th for most of his career. You can be ordinary but also clutch, Ive seen it first hand prior to Eli becoming the qb he has become the past couple of years.

But you can't call him the MVP of the team bc of it. Its just not fair to the other guys. Benson has carried that offense. He carried that offense vs Baltimore. He's easily the MVP of the team in my mind. The whole team feeds off of his contributions. The defense doesn't play the way it does without the rest he gives them, the complimentary pass game doesn't produce the way it does without him softening the defense.

Now I could be ignorant of the situation. If Carson is calling the plays at the line, audibles and adjusts the protection schemes or the run blocking, etc (ie, call the offense and adjust it on his own), then you can make a case for Carson. But I don't have that knowledge of the team, so as an outsider, I view Benson as the guy.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Great writeup like usual. Always enjoy these.

Thank you for mentioning Tamba Hali. Most thought it would be a rough transition for him moving to 3-4 OLB but he has shown flashes. He lost weight, he is working hard, and he is going to stick there. Gotta root for a guy that plays as hard as he does every play.
A lot of people forget Hali was very raw coming out of college too. As I recall he didn't play football until sometime in high school. Alot of times it just takes guys like that a couple years to adjust and get going at this level. Or it takes scheme change for a guy to really blossom and find their niche.

On another note I'm curious to see if the Packers would consider trading Kampman to a 4-3 team with a need for a pass rusher. My guess is that they could probably get a first round pick for him.

I'm not really sure of a team (probably would be looking to make playoff run) who needs a 4-3 end though. At least not off the top of my head.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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A lot of people forget Hali was very raw coming out of college too. As I recall he didn't play football until sometime in high school. Alot of times it just takes guys like that a couple years to adjust and get going at this level. Or it takes scheme change for a guy to really blossom and find their niche.

On another note I'm curious to see if the Packers would consider trading Kampman to a 4-3 team with a need for a pass rusher. My guess is that they could probably get a first round pick for him.

I'm not really sure of a team (probably would be looking to make playoff run) who needs a 4-3 end though. At least not off the top of my head.
I think the Bengals would be open to it. Maybe the Titans.

Id give em Kiwi and a 4th for him. How awesome would our dline be with Kampman?
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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I think the Bengals would be open to it. Maybe the Titans.

Id give em Kiwi and a 4th for him. How awesome would our dline be with Kampman?
Bengals would probably make sense too. They aren't in the NFC, their first round pick will probably be late enough to where they could live without it this year, and I think they could use an elite pass rusher.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why you're bashing DHB.

He won a race yesterday at Giants stadium even though the other runner had a head start.

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Old 10-12-2009, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd love Kampman here, but I don't know if we have room. Plus, our pass rush has been good thus far, just not elite.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why you're bashing DHB.

He won a race yesterday at Giants stadium even though the other runner had a head start.

hahaha, i remember that. i was like wtf is he doing?

the comments on that video had me cracking up, esp the one where the guy says "he was waiting for someone to pass him the baton"
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why you're bashing DHB.

He won a race yesterday at Giants stadium even though the other runner had a head start.

Wow, f'ing terrible. Basically 'track star over football player' personified in one clip.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Hey, at least give him credit for running down field to make a tackle even though the play had technically been blown dead.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Hey, at least give him credit for running down field to make a tackle even though the play had technically been blown dead.
I would if I thought there were even a slight chance that he knew that.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Would have been funnier if he sprinted to the endzone looking back at #41 holding his arms like this
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Hey, at least give him credit for running down field even though the play had technically been blown dead.
FTFY. I found the "to make a tackle" part questionable.
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