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Old 10-17-2009, 11:53 AM    (permalink
Splat
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2007- Turk McBride
2006- Bernard Pollard
Thanks Herm there all ready gone...
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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We've had this conversation before, but I could really care less what my DE's do against the run if they can produce a pass rush. Let's say it's the 54th pick (I think 9-10 wins is reasonable for the Bears). The last 5 guys at 54 are:

2009- Phil Loadholt
2008- Jason Jones
2007- Turk McBride
2006- Bernard Pollard
2005- Eric Shelton

We'll see what Loadholt does, but I'd take Gaines over the other 4 no question.
Its not fair to compare him to 1 prospect taken at 54 per year though, bc there are a lot of other players that had been taken beyond 54 that are arguably better than those picks that would be considered at that moment in the draft.

With the way your oline is playing, I think youd strongly consider William Beatty at 54 this past year if you can do it over again.

I loved the Jay Cutler trade bc I think Cutler was worth every penny, but in what should be a deep draft, I don't know if it was worth trading a 2nd for a guy who's been rather mediocre so far in his career.

I know Tampa's coaching is abysmal this year, but giving up on a DE 2.5 years into his career? Isn't that a bad sign?

And its not like he played for a crappy DC for his first 2 years. If Monte Kiffin couldn't reach this guy, who will?
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Its not fair to compare him to 1 prospect taken at 54 per year though, bc there are a lot of other players that had been taken beyond 54 that are arguably better than those picks that would be considered at that moment in the draft.
But that's assuming we would make that choice. 54 was just a random number, maybe if I would have done 53 or 55 I'd get a different result, but the point is that a late 2nd really isn't that valuable of a pick.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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But that's assuming we would make that choice. 54 was just a random number, maybe if I would have done 53 or 55 I'd get a different result, but the point is that a late 2nd really isn't that valuable of a pick.
ok, i can see that.

whats Chicago gonna do with that oline and WR situation now without any day 1 picks?

lets assume Gaines works out, now your dline is set. Your LB core is fine, but theres still issues in the secondary, oline, and WR.

Most importantly in my eyes, the oline. im assuming with no 1st and 2nd round picks, the Bears can make a FA splash if theres a new CBA on the table?
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Good trade for the Bears. A 4th overall pick for a 2nd.
They must see something in him that makes them think they can get him to reach his potential
I hope he does- dude looks like he could turn into a beast
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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ok, i can see that.

whats Chicago gonna do with that oline and WR situation now without any day 1 picks?

lets assume Gaines works out, now your dline is set. Your LB core is fine, but theres still issues in the secondary, oline, and WR.

Most importantly in my eyes, the oline. im assuming with no 1st and 2nd round picks, the Bears can make a FA splash if theres a new CBA on the table?
Honestly I dont' think we have a WR situation. Hester, Bennet, and Knox look like a really good trio.

The secondary isn't great, but with our system it doesn't need to be, and it's probably not something we'd spend a top pick on anyway. Adding Gaines helps our secondary if he can get a pass rush.

Offensive line is definitely the biggest issue going forward. The hope is probably that Pace has another year in him. If not, Chris Williams goes to LT and Kevin Schafer starts. Not ideal, but passable I think.

On top of all of that, the biggest situation is if O-Gun leaves and we have nobody to take his spot. You can't run this defense without a good pass rush.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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On top of all of that, the biggest situation is if O-Gun leaves and we have nobody to take his spot. You can't run this defense without a good pass rush.
That completely justifies the trade for the bears IMO. They year they made it to the Superbowl their pass rush was awesome. Their run D is already good, they just need a consistent rush off the edge to save their mediocre secondary some time.
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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I like this trade for both sides, with maybe the slight edge to Chicago.

Tampa wasn't going to get the best out of Gaines Adams, especially with Monte Kiffin gone, so getting a 2nd round pick now is big to their rebuilding effort. Unless they blow the pick of course, but that goes for any team in the Draft and so on.

I think there's a great chance that Chicago can get more out of Adams, if not the best. He's a very good fit for their defense. Didn't Marinelli, when he was HC of Detroit, love Adams? Tampa at #4 wouldn't give up what Millen was asking for in a trade, so Detroit stayed at #2 and took Calvin Johnson. But Marinelli gets to work with the guy he wanted now, giving the Bears a talented young pass rusher that they sorely needed.

In a sort of ironic way, maybe the Bears benefit from this former 4th overall pick as Cincinnati benefits from their former 4th overall pick Benson.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Yes Marinelli loved him. Holy crap, how bad would that be if that trade happened. Gaines Adams to Detroit and no Calvin. Thats the only time Millens WR fetish paid off.

Marinelli will help him. Marinelli was a doofus head coach and didn't know how to run an enitre defense nor did his son in law Barry but our Dline did get better when we had some talent(2007) as Chicago does have talent on their Dline. Redding became a decent DT instead of a nobody DE, DeVries had a good 2007 somehow for being a career backup,Avril looked decent as a rookie,DeWayne White had good starts to the seasons in 2007/2008 before he got hurt and now sucks this year and is hurt again,Shaun Rogers had his best year as a Lion in 2007,hurt in 2006 with Marinelli(then was stupidly traded for no talent), even James Hall in the beginning of 2006 had a good number of sacks before he got hurt on IR and traded in 2007 offseason. Only guys Marinelli didn't help was Kalimba Edwards and Shaun Cody. As far as run D though Marinelli doesn't help that much, he's more of a pass rush specialist coach IMO.
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Tampa wasn't going to get the best out of Gaines Adams, especially with Monte Kiffin gone, so getting a 2nd round pick now is big to their rebuilding effort. Unless they blow the pick of course, but that goes for any team in the Draft and so on.
I think that's a huge key to this.

New System, New Guy. Get the max value... and luckily for the Bears, he's not a bad fit, good size, good speed, and Rod's guy... I think for all the people who say 'hey, he can't coach. look what he did in detroit' are clearly blinded by the fact, he coached a team... Now he spend every waking hour crafting and building these players if he has to, instead of 'playing the detroit game'.
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I know Tampa's coaching is abysmal this year, but giving up on a DE 2.5 years into his career? Isn't that a bad sign?
Good players have been given up on by bad coaches many times. It's not exactly rare in the NFL.

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And its not like he played for a crappy DC for his first 2 years. If Monte Kiffin couldn't reach this guy, who will?
Coordinators aren't line coaches. I've never seen a quote from Simeon Rice or Warren Sapp that Monte Kiffin taught them how to be better linemen...but I have seen them say that about Marinelli. Kiffin was a linebacker coach.

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Old 10-17-2009, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Gaines has potential, he's still increidbly quick off the snap and he's more powerful than he's given credit for. He just hasn't gotten down those few key moves that a lot of DE's use to extreme extents like Freeney and Allen to wreck opposing lines. In Chicago he could be a very good situational guy.

A little known fact too is that in his first two years he actually has more sacks, hurries and hits on the QB than super Mario in Houston, so he's not really a bust.

Then again a second isn't exactly what I'd want to pay for him. I suppose this is just one of those "wait and see" moves.
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