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Old 10-27-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
terribletowel39
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Are you going to acknowledge that he's been playing hurt?
I mean, I guess. I was just using it as an example because MetSox asked what Merriman had done lately (while hurt nonetheless).
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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This is a great signing and a high-reward, low-risk one as well.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
I mean, I guess. I was just using it as an example because MetSox asked what Merriman had done lately (while hurt nonetheless).
Ware had been playing hurt at the beginning of the season, and now his performance has been up to his level the past few games. Shawne Merriman has yet to even record a sack this season, no forced fumbles or INTs, and has only 18 tackles, 7 of which were on assists. That's three tackles a game. THREE. Merriman hasn't done anything in a couple of years now, and all of a sudden a team is gonna throw out a contract similar to Ware's? I doubt that.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
It's not like you lose all the effects of roids in a week. If you keep working out hard you can keep a lot of the muscle mass you gain. I don't know if Merriman's lack of production has more to do with having been injured or being off roids, but your argument doesn't really hold up because going off roids after testing positive doesn't mean he would immediately lose all the benefit he gained from being on them.

edit: and to keep this on topic, Demarcus Ware is a cool cat.


How about a few months instead of a week then? If the roids were still in his system, wouldn't he have tested positive more than once. He's probably the most tested player in the league after that incident, and he has been negative since. And you could argue that he used a masking agent immediately after he tested positive, but the NFL has shown that they can sniff those out as well.

He was doing fine in 2007 too until he got cheapshotted by the Titans. Now he's recovering from a major injury where he had both the ACL and PCL repaired.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Ware had been playing hurt at the beginning of the season, and now his performance has been up to his level the past few games. Shawne Merriman has yet to even record a sack this season, no forced fumbles or INTs, and has only 18 tackles, 7 of which were on assists. That's three tackles a game. THREE. Merriman hasn't done anything in a couple of years now, and all of a sudden a team is gonna throw out a contract similar to Ware's? I doubt that.
Ware didn't have the same injury to the extent that Merriman did so your point is kinda moot in that regards. Also Merriman, despite his injury, is still getting pressure on the quarterback. He has a couple of forced interceptions as well noticeably in the Ravens game and the KC game. And he's still getting double teamed.

And it's kinda stupid to bring up the fact that Merriman hasn't done anything in the last couple of years when you use injury as an excuse for Ware. Hello, Merriman got season ending surgery last year to repair both his ACL and PCL. He's not going to come back as soon as Ware. But he's slowly getting there.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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YES!!!! This has made my day. Thank you and good night.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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You can't let a player of his caliber walk, and his contract isn't too extravagant either. Good job Cowboys.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
Merriman's 2006 season was every bit as good as DeMarcus Ware's 2008 season.
Probably better in terms of rushing the passer. He did that in twelve games. Would've gotten well over 20+ sacks if he had played the entire year. Ware's 2008 was better overall though. Ware is easily the more complete player. Merriman completely healthy is a better pass rusher, not by much though.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Probably better in terms of rushing the passer. He did that in twelve games. Would've gotten well over 20+ sacks if he had played the entire year. Ware's 2008 was better overall though. Ware is easily the more complete player. Merriman completely healthy is a better pass rusher, not by much though.
Let the record show that Merriman is actually pretty good in coverage and stellar against the run, and that opinions to the contrary are inaccurate. Not lately, but he's looking alright now.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Let the record show that Merriman is actually pretty good in coverage and stellar against the run, and that opinions to the contrary are inaccurate. Not lately, but he's looking alright now.
I don't think people are trying to take anything away from Merriman when it's said Ware is a more complete player. Mierriman never was and probably never will be a one dimensional player. He took to playing linebacker very well. But if you're asking them to line up on somebody, I'm taking Ware every time.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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I don't think people are trying to take anything away from Merriman when it's said Ware is a more complete player. Mierriman never was and probably never will be a one dimensional player. He took to playing linebacker very well. But if you're asking them to line up on somebody, I'm taking Ware every time.
Yah, I try to stay away from kneejerk defense of Merriman but I do feel like he is largely regarded as just a pass rusher when he really is a total linebacker as well.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I understand the Merriman & Ware arguments are impossible to avoid because of where they are drafted, and I'm not gonna act like I know how long he was using roids, but come on, you can't say stuff like "I'd take 2006 Merriman over _____" or anything resembling that sentence without acknowledging he was juicing that year and obviously reaping benefits from it.


Before? Don't know. After? Probably not. But in 2006 he was using and playing out of his mind, it's not like he sucked, but let's not act it wasn't obviously making him a better player that year. If you want to use a year for the Merriman argument, how about using one where he wasn't tested positive for Roids.


It's not like he started using a week before he got caught, so I fail to see how that's relevant using that season as a measuring stick for how good he is, or how he would of had 20+ sacks.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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I understand the Merriman & Ware arguments are impossible to avoid because of where they are drafted, and I'm not gonna act like I know how long he was using roids, but come on, you can't say stuff like "I'd take 2006 Merriman over _____" or anything resembling that sentence without acknowledging he was juicing that year and obviously reaping benefits from it.


Before? Don't know. After? Probably not. But in 2006 he was using and playing out of his mind, it's not like he sucked, but let's not act it wasn't obviously making him a better player that year. If you want to use a year for the Merriman argument, how about using one where he wasn't tested positive for Roids.


It's not like he started using a week before he got caught, so I fail to see how that's relevant using that season as a measuring stick for how good he is, or how he would of had 20+ sacks.
We keep using that 2006 season because he tested positive once in August and has not tested positive since or before that incident. That's a fact. Now one has to wonder how long the roids were in his body to actually benefit him if he has been tested frequently since and has not been positive. Does it linger on and continue having an effect several months into the season when he's still beasting out? How about a year later when he's still performing at a high level despite an incompetent DC in Ted Cottrell?
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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How about a few months instead of a week then? If the roids were still in his system, wouldn't he have tested positive more than once. He's probably the most tested player in the league after that incident, and he has been negative since. And you could argue that he used a masking agent immediately after he tested positive, but the NFL has shown that they can sniff those out as well.

He was doing fine in 2007 too until he got cheapshotted by the Titans. Now he's recovering from a major injury where he had both the ACL and PCL repaired.
Cartoons aside (how old are you?), you're either not paying attention or you don't understand steroids.

I said the EFFECTS of steroids don't wear off immediately. You don't have to have steroids continually coursing through your body to keep a large percentage of the muscle growth you gained while on them. Depending on genetics (and I'm guessing Merriman has some of the best around) and training regimen (who has more opportunities to work out than an NFL linebacker) you could keep those gains for quite a while.

I think you're trying to imply that Merriman's roid use had little or nothing to do with his success, that he just is that good and that the roids didn't do much. If that is true, then why did he take them? I think you want to say that but you realize how lame it would sound, so you're talking around it while implying it the whole time. If a Pats fan tried to say their cheating didn't have any effect on any game, would you buy that? No one cheats just to cheat, they take the risk to benefit themselves.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Pittsburgh LBs: Plug 'n Play

Merriman: What have you done for me lately?
Exactly.

Ware's been a beast since he was a rookie, has a more well rounded game than Merriman, is younger than Harrison, isn't a "system" guy like it can easily be argued that Harrison is, and offers significant future upside and staying ability as 3-4 OLBs tend to age well being a position that relies so much on instinct, intelligence, and experience.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Cartoons aside (how old are you?), you're either not paying attention or you don't understand steroids.

I said the EFFECTS of steroids don't wear off immediately. You don't have to have steroids continually coursing through your body to keep a large percentage of the muscle growth you gained while on them. Depending on genetics (and I'm guessing Merriman has some of the best around) and training regimen (who has more opportunities to work out than an NFL linebacker) you could keep those gains for quite a while.

I think you're trying to imply that Merriman's roid use had little or nothing to do with his success, that he just is that good and that the roids didn't do much. If that is true, then why did he take them? I think you want to say that but you realize how lame it would sound, so you're talking around it while implying it the whole time. If a Pats fan tried to say their cheating didn't have any effect on any game, would you buy that? No one cheats just to cheat, they take the risk to benefit themselves.
Which brings it back to Merriman's excuse that it was a tainted supplement. Whether you believe his excuse is another issue. Surprisingly, I've noticed the whole tainted supplement has become an issue now after the incident with Merriman.

Personally, I don't think he took an anabolic steroid intentionally. Especially, one that can be picked up so easily. He was negative before the incident so I don't understand how he could have suddenly become positive and negative subsequently after if he was trying to get an edge. I do think that he is one of the many athletes who fall under the trap of taking supplements without checking to see if the ingredients fall under the NFL guidelines. Just because something is legally sold over the counter at a local drug store doesn't mean that it abides by the NFL rules.

And the "cartoons" are just a facepalm culmination from various animes. I do enjoy the fact that you actually resorted to the age argument for some reason.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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It is possible he took some OTC drug that screwed him over. This is where I wish the NFL were more forthcoming about things. You've got to admit the timing between his drug test, injury, and subsequent drop in production is at best unfortunate.

I just thought the cartoon thing was weird and was honestly asking how old you are. Because if I found out you were 14 I probably wouldn't bother continuing this discussion with you. You don't seem like you are though. I've seen the Star Trek facepalm thing so I get that. If you just image searched for facepalm and picked that one then... ok.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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It is possible he took some OTC drug that screwed him over. This is where I wish the NFL were more forthcoming about things. You've got to admit the timing between his drug test, injury, and subsequent drop in production is at best unfortunate.

I just thought the cartoon thing was weird and was honestly asking how old you are. Because if I found out you were 14 I probably wouldn't bother continuing this discussion with you. You don't seem like you are though. I've seen the Star Trek facepalm thing so I get that. If you just image searched for facepalm and picked that one then... ok.
I'm not 14, but I do question your own age for bringing something like that to use against me. It's freaking exaggeration on facepalms because there's multiple pictures of people doing the same thing over again. Brent had it in his avatar for like a month before the season began. Do you want me to question your age and competence because you have a picture of Jeff Fischer acting silly in your sig?

As for the timing, it's not that big of a coincidence. He continued to dominate even after 2006 until he got screwed over by Mawae and the other Titan oline in that 2007 Titan's game. It's not like it was just a freak accident that happened. They both blindsided him even though the play was away from him. Instead of getting surgery last offseason like he should, he decided he could keep on playing because he didn't want to miss the 2008 season. He ended up missing it anyways.
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