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Old 02-15-2011, 03:08 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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I think we're overrating our own players. I love Landry Fields, every team needs a Landry Fields, but he's in all likelihood going to be nothing more than a very good role player.

Gallo is a solid #3 option. Good player, never will be a great one. Again, it's not the end of the world if you lose a guy like that in a package for a great player.

Role players are role players. They're easy to replace.

Having that said, I'm feeling confident we get a trade done after the all star break, and I think Donnie is going to get a good deal done. I don't think we lose all our pieces for Melo.

We may give up 1 extra piece just to get it done, but let's say that piece is Fields for example, do any of us really care if we lose him along with Chandler plus the cap relief and Randolph to get Melo?

Bc I sure as hell don't. And I love Fields too. He's probably my 2nd favorite player on the team behind Stat.
Problem is if we give up too much we won't have enough assets to replace our young players. If Fields becomes Doug Christie 2.0 and Gallo becomes a super tall Manu Ginobli, which I think both players are more than capable of doing, those are perfect compliments that would be hard to replace, especially with no assets left. Plus we'd only need to give up Chandler and AR if we wait til the summer and not Chandler, AR, Felton-for-Billups and those two. It's poor asset management, poor negotiating and it's a really poor way to build a contender because we'd be stuck hoping for Paul or Deron to come join Amar'e n Melo and also that those 3 would be enough to beat Miami, Boston or LA.

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There's no way they get all of that. This is a classic case of posturing on both sides. We're lowballing the hell out of them, they're demanding a king's ransom, and realistically, something in the middle gets agreed upon.

Probably skewed more towards our offer than their demands.

I'm intrigued by the thought of getting Billups and Melo if we put Felton in part of the package.

What's your thoughts on that? I don't know how I feel about it. Billups is pretty good, but he's getting old.

He's Mr. Big Shot though, which will be huge in the playoffs when teams crash Stat and Melo in crunch time.
Billups is just too old, we'd need to limit his minutes and it would basically mean going all in on Paul or Deron with no prospects left to trade, aka hopes n dreams.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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So it seems like the only team that could come up with an offer is Dallas who won't be giving up much more than Boubeais, an expiring and picks which isn't really better than Chandler, picks and a TPE for EC's contract.

I'm thinking worst comes to worst we give up AR, WC, EC and Felts to get Melo and Billups provided Dolan doesn't get involved and **** things up.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Not only that, but I also can't imagine them trading Melo to a team in the West. It just makes no sense for them.

We have all the leverage. Hopefully Donnie does his thing and Dolan stays away. At this point I'll be shocked if we don't get Melo.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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Hahn says the Felton-for-Billups won't be a dealbreaker.

In other words, if this deal happens, I'd expect Felton to be dealt. I wouldn't have a problem with that because:

a) Billups is still a good veteran player
b) Once Melo joins STAT, CP3 is only a matter of time - PG won't be an issue in 2K12. I'd rather let an old Billups walk or re-sign as a a back-up than just push away Felton after two years of pouring his heart and soul into it for us.

Today's Hahn article also indicates that D'Antoni isn't thrilled about a roster shakeup at this point (not surprising). I'm also getting the sense that he simply doesn't want to give up Gallo (personal ties). If he gets in the way of this deal (which is essentially for Melo AND CP3 as far as I'm concerned) because of an affinity for a mediocre player I'll never forgive him.

Other things to consider:

+Melo is reportedly distancing himself from his team right now, which is the equivalent of demanding a trade (forcing the Nuggets hand, probably) without actually coming out and saying it. Great for us.

+The report that he might consider signing an extension was more him telling the Knicks "get me now! I can't wait!" rather than him actually considering it.

-New Jersey could change their stance but I'd find it hard to believe that Prokorov would make himself look like a fool in that regard after his first big press conference and message to his team and the rest of the league.

+By all accounts, Dallas is the only other team that could enter the bidding but they reportedly deem Roddy Buckets untouchable. Great for us because he may be the player with the most upside that any team could offer for Melo.

-Wilson Chandler may need surgery in the offseason and he's a restricted free agent. The Nuggets know if they value him or not. We assume they do but we don't know.

I think something along the lines of Rosebud's deal gets done but not before this things takes a million twists and turns until next Thursday.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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I'm almost certain at this point a deal gets done. Now it's a matter of how much we're giving away for him.

Either way, I'm excited. We need another star player on this team. We won't go anywhere with just Stat and good role players. We played that game with Ewing in the early/mid 90s and ruined his prime with shortcomings in the playoffs bc of it.

I don't want us to do that again.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Unless the cap goes up with a hard cap we need to keep everyone except Chandler and AR from this trade because we wouldn't be able to sign Paul or Deron in FA the way we can Melo, in which case we'll actually have to make a strong trade offer to make that big 3 actually possible.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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If we do somehow pull of the big 3, I can't imagine Gallo being part of our future plans. He'll either be dealt in part of a package for CP3 or they'll let him walk in FA to clear room for CP3.

We're getting waaaaaaaaay ahead of ourselves though. Let's just focus on Melo right now.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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If we do somehow pull of the big 3, I can't imagine Gallo being part of our future plans. He'll either be dealt in part of a package for CP3 or they'll let him walk in FA to clear room for CP3.

We're getting waaaaaaaaay ahead of ourselves though. Let's just focus on Melo right now.
No doubt, but if we've got Melo and Amar'e eating up 40 mil of the cap we won't be able to offer Paul or Deron more than 12 mil a year even if we dump everyone else, including Gallo, Fields, Mozzie, Turiaf, Dougie, Bill SkyWalker and Purple Drank. That's why it's important we keep as many assets as possible to be able to actually trade for that third star.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:35 AM    (permalink
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Listening to Boomer and Carton, is it really true they want Gallo/Chandler/Fields/Felton/Curry and possibly a 1st?
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:14 AM    (permalink
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Listening to Boomer and Carton, is it really true they want Gallo/Chandler/Fields/Felton/Curry and possibly a 1st?
Yeah. But I highly doubt they get it.

Typical negotiation tactics. They go high, we go low, and they meet in the middle somewhere.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Or it's just Denver's way of saying "see Melo, they don't love you like I love you, we made them an offer of what you're worth and they wouldn't do it, so **** them, come on baby you know you want to..." while telling the Knicks that they're not serious about making a trade.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Or it's just Denver's way of saying "see Melo, they don't love you like I love you, we made them an offer of what you're worth and they wouldn't do it, so **** them, come on baby you know you want to..." while telling the Knicks that they're not serious about making a trade.
Wouldn't surprise me. The Nuggets have seemed like douche bags throughout this entire process, with the Nets and now the Knicks.

I hope he leaves in the off-season, signs with the Knicks, and we give them a **** deal for the S&T.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I swear if the Nets get Melo I'm gonna be pissed.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I swear if the Nets get Melo I'm gonna be pissed.
I just don't see him buckling and taking the extension from a **** franchise, with a **** fanbase that won't make the playoffs this year even with Melo, they are 8.5 games back with only 25 to go.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see him buckling and taking the extension from a **** franchise, with a **** fanbase that won't make the playoffs this year even with Melo, they are 8.5 games back with only 25 to go.
If the Nuggets go up to him and say "Look, we're not accepting any offers from the Knicks bc their offers suck, so either accept this trade to NJ or stick with us and get no extension"

And Carmelo thinks hard about 65m, I think he takes the deal.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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If the Nuggets go up to him and say "Look, we're not accepting any offers from the Knicks bc their offers suck, so either accept this trade to NJ or stick with us and get no extension"

And Carmelo thinks hard about 65m, I think he takes the deal.
*shrug* that 65 mil is a false number since he'll get near that from us if he waits until the summer. Plus Melo's already nixed trades to NJ before so I think if Uriji tries to do that to him, Melo will tell him to blow it out his ass and take what he can get from NY before getting Bosh'd.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure Melo wants nothing to do with the Nets. He doesn't like the idea that the Nuggets supposedly want to rebuild, so I'm pretty damn sure he wouldn't want to be on the Nets for the same reason.

He wants to come to the Knicks because A) We're in his home town and B) We're not rebuilding, we're trying to put together a great team for a big championship run.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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SpearsNBAYahoo: Y! Sports has learned NYK has now offered Gallo, Felton, Chandler, Curry and a to be acquired 1st rounder to DEN for Melo, Billups & fillers
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:46 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Are we finally going to flush that turd down the toilet?

As much as I admit we're giving up a lot for Melo (which I'm still fine with btw), I almost want this trade to go down just so I don't have to hear about Gallinari anymore.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Are we finally going to flush that turd down the toilet?

As much as I admit we're giving up a lot for Melo (which I'm still fine with btw), I almost want this trade to go down just so I don't have to hear about Gallinari anymore.
I have a lot of respect for you BBD but that's a pretty foolish reason to want a deal to go down.

And I don't think I'd be very happy giving up all that for Melo. Melo has become so overrated these days it's not even funny.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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I have a lot of respect for you BBD but that's a pretty foolish reason to want a deal to go down.

And I don't think I'd be very happy giving up all that for Melo. Melo has become so overrated these days it's not even funny.
Why? What are we losing other than depth?

C: Mozgov/Turiaf
F: Stat
F: Melo
G: Billups
G: Fields

From our starting lineup, we actually improve. I've said all season I don't care much for depth if it means we improve the starting 5. Felton is better than Billups, no doubt, but Billups isn't a scrub. Plus Melo is infinitely better than Gallo.

Plus Billups contract expires in 2012. So what's the problem? We keep Fields, We still have Mozgov which is good, bc we can use him and Turiaf in a rotation at Center while keepng Stat healthy in the PF position, we won't have that small lineup with Gallo at PF which realistically, is a terrible lineup bc it's just way too small.

I don't see what the problem is. We're losing role players for a star player. It's a no brainer to me.

You'll look back at this trade in 2 years and thank the basketball gods that it went down (if it goes down).
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Think of it this way guys, we were losing Chandler anyway. We were going to lose those expiring contracts anyway. We were never going to use Randolph anyway.

So this trade is Carmelo and Billups for Gallo + Felton plus guys who we'd lose anyway. Who WOULDN'T make that trade? You'd be criminally insane to think that the combo of Gallo and Felton is more valuable than Melo.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure Melo wants nothing to do with the Nets. He doesn't like the idea that the Nuggets supposedly want to rebuild, so I'm pretty damn sure he wouldn't want to be on the Nets for the same reason.

He wants to come to the Knicks because A) We're in his home town and B) We're not rebuilding, we're trying to put together a great team for a big championship run.
IMO the only we he ok's a trade to NJ is if all he cares about is getting that extension signed before the CBA talks. In which case him n Amar'e will never win a ring alone, so he's not worth giving away all of our assets for.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Guys, Melo doesn't give a damn about the team.

He wants his money, and he wants to live in the tristate area. That's all he cares about. The team is the icing on the cake.

If push comes to shove, he'll sign with the Nets.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Why? What are we losing other than depth?

C: Mozgov/Turiaf
F: Stat
F: Melo
G: Billups
G: Fields

From our starting lineup, we actually improve. I've said all season I don't care much for depth if it means we improve the starting 5. Felton is better than Billups, no doubt, but Billups isn't a scrub. Plus Melo is infinitely better than Gallo.

Plus Billups contract expires in 2012. So what's the problem? We keep Fields, We still have Mozgov which is good, bc we can use him and Turiaf in a rotation at Center while keepng Stat healthy in the PF position, we won't have that small lineup with Gallo at PF which realistically, is a terrible lineup bc it's just way too small.

I don't see what the problem is. We're losing role players for a star player. It's a no brainer to me.

You'll look back at this trade in 2 years and thank the basketball gods that it went down (if it goes down).

Because we'd be putting all of our eggs into the Chris-Paul-being-willing-to-take-a-more-than-7-mil-per-year-pay-cut basket...aka we'd be giving away any hope of winning a ring any time in Amar'e career.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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