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Old 02-19-2011, 10:33 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Guys, Melo doesn't give a damn about the team.

He wants his money, and he wants to live in the tristate area. That's all he cares about. The team is the icing on the cake.

If push comes to shove, he'll sign with the Nets.

Exaclty, **** him, I want a ring not to watch Melo n Amar'e get paid to loss to Miami and Boston.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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I think Melo wants to win.

I think he prioritizes money first, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. It's easy for us to say take $40 million and be happy but when you have an opportunity at 20 more it's not a crime to want to take it...

Two questions:
1) What team is giving us a 1 for Anthony Randolph? LOL
2) Why don't we give them 2 #1s (the one we get from Randolph and our own)? Maybe we can keep Wil or Gallo then.

Here's our rotation:

PG: Chauncey Billups, Toney Douglas
SG: Landry Fields, Douglas
SF: Carmelo Anthony, Shawne Williams, Bill Walker
PF: Amare Stoudamire, Anthony
C: Timofey Mozgov, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams

Obviously, this trade puts more pressure (and gives more opportunity) to Williams, Douglas, and Walker.

I'm down.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I think Melo wants to win.

I think he prioritizes money first, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. It's easy for us to say take $40 million and be happy but when you have an opportunity at 20 more it's not a crime to want to take it...

Two questions:
1) What team is giving us a 1 for Anthony Randolph? LOL
2) Why don't we give them 2 #1s (the one we get from Randolph and our own)? Maybe we can keep Wil or Gallo then.

Here's our rotation:

PG: Chauncey Billups, Toney Douglas
SG: Landry Fields, Douglas
SF: Carmelo Anthony, Shawne Williams, Bill Walker
PF: Amare Stoudamire, Anthony
C: Timofey Mozgov, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams

Obviously, this trade puts more pressure (and gives more opportunity) to Williams, Douglas, and Walker.

I'm down.
Melo hurt our leverage by trying to not be hated like Lebron. He is trying to have it look like he didn't screw the Nuggets over which is hurting us and with Dolan rumored to be running things now it is hurting our leverage even more.

1) Minnesota and Portland have both been rumored to want Randolph for a 1st

2) We don't have a 1st of our own to trade that we are able to trade until 2014 cause of the T-Mac trade.

3) Chandler isn't worth the contract he is going to get in FA this year since he is in line for a pay rise.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Exaclty, **** him, I want a ring not to watch Melo n Amar'e get paid to loss to Miami and Boston.
Who says we can't win a ring with Melo and Stat? We don't HAVE to get CP3 to build around these 2. They're more than capable of pulling it off if we get good players around them.

This is a significant upgrade to the talent on the team. I just don't understand why you're so against it.

Boston is a year away from retirement, and Miami can be had if we build this team the right way. I guarantee you this, if we pass up on Melo and instead put our eggs in the Gallinari basket, we're not winning ****.

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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Because we'd be putting all of our eggs into the Chris-Paul-being-willing-to-take-a-more-than-7-mil-per-year-pay-cut basket...aka we'd be giving away any hope of winning a ring any time in Amar'e career.
No we wouldn't. Why can't Stat and Melo be enough? Why do we HAVE to have that 3rd star? Worse 1,2 combos have went on to win championships.

Can we have a dynasty? No. But we can surely compete for a championship.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Who says we can't win a ring with Melo and Stat? We don't HAVE to get CP3 to build around these 2. They're more than capable of pulling it off if we get good players around them.

This is a significant upgrade to the talent on the team. I just don't understand why you're so against it.

Boston is a year away from retirement, and Miami can be had if we build this team the right way. I guarantee you this, if we pass up on Melo and instead put our eggs in the Gallinari basket, we're not winning ****.



No we wouldn't. Why can't Stat and Melo be enough? Why do we HAVE to have that 3rd star? Worse 1,2 combos have went on to win championships.

Can we have a dynasty? No. But we can surely compete for a championship.
If you don t have a 3rd Star you need a bench and depth which this trade hurts us since we don't have the greatest bench to begin with and won't have many assets to improve it.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I think Melo wants to win.

I think he prioritizes money first, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. It's easy for us to say take $40 million and be happy but when you have an opportunity at 20 more it's not a crime to want to take it...

Two questions:
1) What team is giving us a 1 for Anthony Randolph? LOL
2) Why don't we give them 2 #1s (the one we get from Randolph and our own)? Maybe we can keep Wil or Gallo then.

Here's our rotation:

PG: Chauncey Billups, Toney Douglas
SG: Landry Fields, Douglas
SF: Carmelo Anthony, Shawne Williams, Bill Walker
PF: Amare Stoudamire, Anthony
C: Timofey Mozgov, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams

Obviously, this trade puts more pressure (and gives more opportunity) to Williams, Douglas, and Walker.

I'm down.
1. Minny, Kahn supposedly likes AR's potential more than anyone who'll be in the late lottery of this draft.
2. I think we'd be cool offering that if they let us keep Gallo, Fields and Mozzie, problem is the first pick of ours we could trade would be our 2014 pick so they'd rather have the player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Who says we can't win a ring with Melo and Stat? We don't HAVE to get CP3 to build around these 2. They're more than capable of pulling it off if we get good players around them.

This is a significant upgrade to the talent on the team. I just don't understand why you're so against it.

Boston is a year away from retirement, and Miami can be had if we build this team the right way. I guarantee you this, if we pass up on Melo and instead put our eggs in the Gallinari basket, we're not winning ****.



No we wouldn't. Why can't Stat and Melo be enough? Why do we HAVE to have that 3rd star? Worse 1,2 combos have went on to win championships.

Can we have a dynasty? No. But we can surely compete for a championship.
Because of LeBron, Wade and Bosh, and that's only for after the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs and Mavs fall apart. We won't beat those teams without a great bench around Amar'e n Melo and we won't have a great bench and support staff if we give up most of our assets in getting Melo. That's a fine duo offensively that plays poor D and doesn't excel at creating for their team-mates, so they'd need a lot of help to beat the teams they'd have to beat to win a ring without the basketball gods doing most of the work by taking out Wade, Paul Pierce and Bynum, as well as significant portions of those teams' benches while smiling on our health, which, being a NY fan you should know better than to expect.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 02-19-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Why can't we trade this year's first?
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Why can't we trade this year's first?
Because we don't have one next year so we can't trade our pick this year or our 2013 pick.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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If you don t have a 3rd Star you need a bench and depth which this trade hurts us since we don't have the greatest bench to begin with and won't have many assets to improve it.
Role players are easy to find. I have faith in Mozgov turning into a decent player, I think Fields will elevate his game when he works on his jump shot, hell, maybe we can even sign Felton in 2 years again. Why not? We can afford him.

Then you just fill out your bench with aging guys who are looking for a chance to compete. Boom. Done.

This trade makes us a better team. A much better team. We're the 6th seed right now with our current team. It's not like we're the 2 or 3 seed and we're gutting our roster. We're the 6th seed. The 6th seed!
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Why can't we trade this year's first?
Cause of the NBA Rules.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q74
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Role players are easy to find. I have faith in Mozgov turning into a decent player, I think Fields will elevate his game when he works on his jump shot, hell, maybe we can even sign Felton in 2 years again. Why not? We can afford him.

Then you just fill out your bench with aging guys who are looking for a chance to compete. Boom. Done.

This trade makes us a better team. A much better team. We're the 6th seed right now with our current team. It's not like we're the 2 or 3 seed and we're gutting our roster. We're the 6th seed. The 6th seed!
it makes us more talented I am not arguing that but a team is more then 2 good players.

Role Players are easy to find? show me a list of role players we can acquire so we can actually compete in the playoffs this year. I would like to see some BBD trades that we can make after this latest Melo deal so we can actually field a team that can win.

I hear all of your get Melo Now its all about now but Melo and Stat plus no 1 else will not win a title this year.

Every team that has ever won a title didn't just win it with only 2 people. Not even MJ can win a title by himself he had help.

This is not about me wanting to keep Gallo its about bringing a title to NY.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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1. Minny, Kahn supposedly likes AR's potential more than anyone who'll be in the late lottery of this draft.
2. I think we'd be cool offering that if they let us keep Gallo, Fields and Mozzie, problem is the first pick of ours we could trade would be our 2014 pick so they'd rather have the player.



Because of LeBron, Wade and Bosh, and that's only for after the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs and Mavs fall apart. We won't beat those teams without a great bench around Amar'e n Melo and we won't have a great bench and support staff if we give up most of our assets in getting Melo. That's a fine duo offensively that plays poor D and doesn't excel at creating for their team-mates, so they'd need a lot of help to beat the teams they'd have to beat to win a ring without the basketball gods doing most of the work by taking out Wade, Paul Pierce and Bynum, as well as significant portions of those teams' benches while smiling on our health, which, being a NY fan you should know better than to expect.
Lakers are getting old.

Mavs are soft. Dirk is a ******* *****. Ice cream in the summer is harder than him.

The Spurs are good and developing, but they still rely heavily on Duncan's defense, and he's getting old.

The only team that really scares me moving forward is the Heat, and let's be honest, nobody is probably beating the Heat.

But that doesn't mean we can't try.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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it makes us more talented I am not arguing that but a team is more then 2 good players.

Role Players are easy to find? show me a list of role players we can acquire so we can actually compete in the playoffs this year. I would like to see some BBD trades that we can make after this latest Melo deal so we can actually field a team that can win.

I hear all of your get Melo Now its all about now but Melo and Stat plus no 1 else will not win a title this year.

Every team that has ever won a title didn't just win it with only 2 people. Not even MJ can win a title by himself he had help.

This is not about me wanting to keep Gallo its about bringing a title to NY.
Who said I'm talking about this year? We have no chance of winning a title this year period.

But Melo gives us a better chance in the future. I'm not talking about this year.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Who said I'm talking about this year? We have no chance of winning a title this year period.

But Melo gives us a better chance in the future. I'm not talking about this year.
If its not about now why do you want to trade him for at all bring him in as a FA if you are not going to win with him this year you wouldn't be complaining so hard for them to make a trade. Amare's knees can only last so long if you acquire a Melo you have to make pushes to win asap.


How if we have nothing around him? Amare and Melo are not enough to get past Boston, Miami, and Chicago
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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If its not about now why do you want to trade him for at all bring him in as a FA if you are not going to win with him this year you wouldn't be complaining so hard for them to make a trade. Amare's knees can only last so long if you acquire a Melo you have to make pushes to win asap.


How if we have nothing around him? Amare and Melo are not enough to get past Boston, Miami, and Chicago
Bc we're not going to get him as a FA. Believe me, if I knew for a fact we could get him in FA, I'd be completely against a trade. But it's pretty clear that he wants that 65 mill extension, so the only way of getting him is trading for him.

I rather pay more to have him than not have him at all. It's not like we're trading anyone worth a damn anyway. Melo gives us more than what we're losing.

We keep Fields, we keep Mozgoz. Resign Felton in 2 years, build up your bench with smart FA moves, and you got one hell of a team in 2 years.

Chicago doesn't scare me at all. I think we can take them the way we are now, let alone with Melo.

Boston won't hold up much longer after this year. Miami is the team to beat for the foreseeable future.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Bc we're not going to get him as a FA. Believe me, if I knew for a fact we could get him in FA, I'd be completely against a trade. But it's pretty clear that he wants that 65 mill extension, so the only way of getting him is trading for him.

I rather pay more to have him than not have him at all. It's not like we're trading anyone worth a damn anyway. Melo gives us more than what we're losing.

We keep Fields, we keep Mozgoz. Resign Felton in 2 years, build up your bench with smart FA moves, and you got one hell of a team in 2 years.

Chicago doesn't scare me at all. I think we can take them the way we are now, let alone with Melo.

Boston won't hold up much longer after this year. Miami is the team to beat for the foreseeable future.
Ya but you have to make moves to help re build the team cause the clock to win a title in NY starts to tick the second Anthony steps up to the podium and holds up his Knicks jersey.

You have to push for a title sooner then later otherwise your setting your franchise back cause as the team would stand after this trade you are not much better team then before more talented starting lineup with Melo obv but not much better team. You will have to rebuild the bench otherwise we have no shot.

We are trading things of value regardless of your opinion of Gallo he has value. Felton has worth and so does your boy Chandler. hell Randolph and his potential has value probably not as much as in July but still has worth.

Why would Felton even bother to resign after to being traded after half a dam season if I was Felton a near all star and you traded me for Old ass Chauncey Billups who probably will request a buy out and go to Miami I wouldn't come back here.

We have never beaten Chicago at full strength first time was w/o Boozer 2nd was without Noah with both they can beat us. They are a SG away from being the best in the east.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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We'll take them in the playoffs, in fact, I'll say this, I guarantee the Knicks beat the Bulls in the playoffs if we see them. Regardless of whether we get Melo or not. I'm that confident. Rose is a beast, but Boozer isn't all that, Noah is just a grimey rebounder and defender, but neither of those guys can handle Stat. The Bulls don't scare me.

The clock is ticking regardless. The clock started ticking once we gambled on Stat's knees. So why not give him a Melo to work with instead of holding onto a bunch of role players?

Look, even if we don't get Felton back, Billups contract expires in 2 years. That means next year he's got the commodity of an expiring contract. So now he's sellable.

I have faith that Fields will develop into that blue collar guy everyone needs in their starting 5. He already is, once he works on his jump shot he'll get even better.

So let's say we can't get a CP3, now we invest that money into a legit Center, get a reliable underrated PG which is doable with a trade, and just rely on Mozgov and Fields to develop which I think they can and we'll be ok.

Didn't everyone say the Heat wouldn't be able to find role players? They have even less money to work with than we would and they made it work. It's not the end of the world, we can find good role players.

Finding star players is the hard part. I really don't understand why everyone is against this.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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We'll take them in the playoffs, in fact, I'll say this, I guarantee the Knicks beat the Bulls in the playoffs if we see them. Regardless of whether we get Melo or not. I'm that confident. Rose is a beast, but Boozer isn't all that, Noah is just a grimey rebounder and defender, but neither of those guys can handle Stat. The Bulls don't scare me.

The clock is ticking regardless. The clock started ticking once we gambled on Stat's knees. So why not give him a Melo to work with instead of holding onto a bunch of role players?

Look, even if we don't get Felton back, Billups contract expires in 2 years. That means next year he's got the commodity of an expiring contract. So now he's sellable.

I have faith that Fields will develop into that blue collar guy everyone needs in their starting 5. He already is, once he works on his jump shot he'll get even better.

So let's say we can't get a CP3, now we invest that money into a legit Center, get a reliable underrated PG which is doable with a trade, and just rely on Mozgov and Fields to develop which I think they can and we'll be ok.

Didn't everyone say the Heat wouldn't be able to find role players? They have even less money to work with than we would and they made it work. It's not the end of the world, we can find good role players.

Finding star players is the hard part. I really don't understand why everyone is against this.
Unless the Knicks go crazy from 3 Bulls will win against Knicks without Melo.

The clock was not ticking once we signed Amare and learned there was no Lebron. Nobody was expecting a title now. If you acquire Melo now then the clock and the pressure starts.

You still need players around the 2 of them The Knicks are not the Miami Heat were they can just out talent teams with Melo and Amare. without players around them you are not winning.

Even if Billups is willing to play and not request a buy out to Miami what are you trading him for? Hornets are not going to trade Paul for just his contract and we don't really have anything else to give them with his contract so what are you going to do with it?

I have no problem with Fields but him alone isn't enough. We still need more players then just Fields.

What under rated PG look around the market and draft and identify one that we can get when we will have little to nothing to trade and a late 1st rd pick.

Legit Center? were? its like the Big Foot in todays NBA.

They were able to get players cause the Lebron and Wade didn't take their full maxes while Melo and Amare will.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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We'll take them in the playoffs, in fact, I'll say this, I guarantee the Knicks beat the Bulls in the playoffs if we see them. Regardless of whether we get Melo or not. I'm that confident. Rose is a beast, but Boozer isn't all that, Noah is just a grimey rebounder and defender, but neither of those guys can handle Stat. The Bulls don't scare me.

The clock is ticking regardless. The clock started ticking once we gambled on Stat's knees. So why not give him a Melo to work with instead of holding onto a bunch of role players?

Look, even if we don't get Felton back, Billups contract expires in 2 years. That means next year he's got the commodity of an expiring contract. So now he's sellable.

I have faith that Fields will develop into that blue collar guy everyone needs in their starting 5. He already is, once he works on his jump shot he'll get even better.

So let's say we can't get a CP3, now we invest that money into a legit Center, get a reliable underrated PG which is doable with a trade, and just rely on Mozgov and Fields to develop which I think they can and we'll be ok.

Didn't everyone say the Heat wouldn't be able to find role players? They have even less money to work with than we would and they made it work. It's not the end of the world, we can find good role players.

Finding star players is the hard part. I really don't understand why everyone is against this.
Here's the thing about the heat. All 3 of those guys took less money so that they could play together and sign Mike Miller. So even they had their superstars take less money to build the supporting staff. If Melo really needs his next contract to start at more than 6 mill higher than LeBron's otherwise he won't sign with us, he can go **** himself.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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With the Nuggets now wanting Fields and or mozzie to be added to the deal to do you still think we should make the trade? I really want the knicks to walk at this point. Leave Melo to choose between the extension with NJ or Denver or with waiting to sign with a team that could actually win a title. If he picks the extension I'll be disappointed, but if that's who melo is we were never going to build a contender with him n Amar'e. Our problem is he wants his cake and to eat it to, which is screwing us and making it impossible for us to work out a deal that would let him get his extension from a team that could contend for a ring. So we should walk and let Melo decide whether he wants us or the extension. If he decides he wants us, he'd come out and public say he's given up on pursuing the extension and is starting to gear up for Free Agency, in that case I wouldn't be shocked to find Denver come running back to us to get whatever we'll give them, that's how Melo could actually get his cake and eat it to, we just need to force him to grow a pair and make that statement instead of worrying about "LeBron'ing the Nuggets"
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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That's bc they have 3 guys. We don't need 3 guys.

I'm sorry, but if the Knicks feel that keeping Gallo and Felton is more important than getting Melo, it's the Knicks who can go **** themselves.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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With the Nuggets now wanting Fields and or mozzie to be added to the deal to do you still think we should make the trade? I really want the knicks to walk at this point. Leave Melo to choose between the extension with NJ or Denver or with waiting to sign with a team that could actually win a title. If he picks the extension I'll be disappointed, but if that's who melo is we were never going to build a contender with him n Amar'e. Our problem is he wants his cake and to eat it to, which is screwing us and making it impossible for us to work out a deal that would let him get his extension from a team that could contend for a ring. So we should walk and let Melo decide whether he wants us or the extension. If he decides he wants us, he'd come out and public say he's given up on pursuing the extension and is starting to gear up for Free Agency, in that case I wouldn't be shocked to find Denver come running back to us to get whatever we'll give them, that's how Melo could actually get his cake and eat it to, we just need to force him to grow a pair and make that statement instead of worrying about "LeBron'ing the Nuggets"
Yup. I'll still part ways with either of them.

If our players were THAT good, we would be better than the 6 seed.

So yes, to me everyone is tradable outside of Stat. I would still do it if I had to. I think we can stay firm with our offer and get him anyway, but if I had to had to do it, yes, I would.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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We are the only team bidding on him if you believe todays round of meida Prok has been making statements all day that he and the Nets are still out.

So why would you ditch your whole team for one guy that isn't named Lebron?
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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We are the only team bidding on him if you believe todays round of meida Prok has been making statements all day that he and the Nets are still out.

So why would you ditch your whole team for one guy that isn't named Lebron?
I don't think we have to. I'm saying in a hypothetical situation where we did, I would.

But I feel like we probably already gave them 1 more piece than we needed to. I think we need to stay firm until the last minute, and I think Denver will eventually buckle.

But again, hypothetically, I would. Do I think it's going to be necessary? No. I think we need to be firm and we can get him with the current offer on the table.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we have to. I'm saying in a hypothetical situation where we did, I would.

But I feel like we probably already gave them 1 more piece than we needed to. I think we need to stay firm until the last minute, and I think Denver will eventually buckle.

But again, hypothetically, I would. Do I think it's going to be necessary? No. I think we need to be firm and we can get him with the current offer on the table.
I wouldn't ditch my whole team If I had my choice I would yes regardless of your hatred say I would keep Gallo but if it came down to Gallo as a deal breaker I would trade him.

Imo I don't like the Billups-Felton swap as well as having to give up a Gallo or a fields I think either you do the swap or you give up the 1 player. I think doing both is more then necessary.
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