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Old 02-19-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I wouldn't ditch my whole team If I had my choice I would yes regardless of your hatred say I would keep Gallo but if it came down to Gallo as a deal breaker I would trade him.

Imo I don't like the Billups-Felton swap as well as having to give up a Gallo or a fields I think either you do the swap or you give up the 1 player. I think doing both is more then necessary.
Alan Hahn is reporting that the Nuggets don't even want Gallo. They rather have Fields/Mozgov.

What does that tell you about how other teams feel about Gallo?


I rather trade Gallo than Fields and Mozgov personally.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we have to. I'm saying in a hypothetical situation where we did, I would.

But I feel like we probably already gave them 1 more piece than we needed to. I think we need to stay firm until the last minute, and I think Denver will eventually buckle.

But again, hypothetically, I would. Do I think it's going to be necessary? No. I think we need to be firm and we can get him with the current offer on the table.
See, with his pending free agency I just wouldn't give up all of our assets and tie up 40+ mil into two players who aren't in the top 5 of the league because they regularly play poor defense and are not good at passing the ball, or at least too often forget they have that option.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Alan Hahn is reporting that the Nuggets don't even want Gallo. They rather have Fields/Mozgov.

What does that tell you about how other teams feel about Gallo?


I rather trade Gallo than Fields and Mozgov personally.
I can give you other reports that say they still want Gallo from today and then we can have the media and Gallo argument you and I had from before if you really go down that road I got a lot of time available today if that's what you want .

Yes I rather trade 1 player then 2 as well considering I have been saying we need depth with Melo if we plan to win.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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It seems like Denver just doesn't want to let us have him this is going to come down to whether Melo will let Denver shoe horn him into going to New Jersey. I'm really curious to see whether when push comes to shove he shows some balls and refuses to sign the extension with New Jersey or if he gives in and takes the money.

PS, **** that Brett Bearup guy, what a bitter fat *****.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 02-19-2011 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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God, this is all so confusing. Just man up Melo and tell everyone you'll only sign with the Knicks.

Stop being a *****.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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The Nuggets can draw this out til the final seconds if they want but they've basically ran out of options. They have no leverage, if they were smart they'd take whatever they could for Melo. What we should really do is start taking pieces off the table and call their bluff, make them squirm a little bit for making this process so difficult.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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The Nuggets can draw this out til the final seconds if they want but they've basically ran out of options. They have no leverage, if they were smart they'd take whatever they could for Melo. What we should really do is start taking pieces off the table and call their bluff, make them squirm a little bit for making this process so difficult.
They have no power, but with this NJ thing, Melo's lack of balls and Dolan's impatience they've created some leverage with the help of guys like Screamin A Smith. Still we do hold the power in this situation provided Melo really doesn't want to spend the next 3 years of his career on first round playoff team in a weaker conference. That's why I think we should just tell denver that if they want Chandler, 2 picks, Felton and a TPE to call, otherwise we'll talk to them in the summer about which picks we'll send them in the S&T.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Glipper of hope if Mannix aint full of ****

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Melo admitted he was starting to get concerned about what the team he is going to will look like after they deal for him.
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Glipper of hope if Mannix aint full of ****

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Melo admitted he was starting to get concerned about what the team he is going to will look like after they deal for him.
And someone else reporting that he's starting to tell people he doesn't want to sign the extension with Jersey...dare I get my hopes up that it won't come down to Dolan caving in?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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And someone else reporting that he's starting to tell people he doesn't want to sign the extension with Jersey...dare I get my hopes up that it won't come down to Dolan caving in?
I think if you talked to just about 90% of the Knicks fan base they could have told you that piece of news in August or September. I don't have my hopes up for anything until Melo is on a podium holding up a Knick jersey.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I just want this saga to end. All the rumors of Isiah Thomas running the Knicks again is scaring the bejesus out of me.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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They are not new rumors they have been around since this summer when Dolan tried to hire him as a consultant and Stern wouldn't allow it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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At first I was in denial though. But now...i mean it's pretty much out there that Isiah is running the Knicks through Dolan again.

I'm just in shock. How can anyone be so stupid? I hate James Dolan so much.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I think it's all BS at this point to be honest. I mean, do people really think Isiah has enough time to coach college basketball, recruit, etc, AND run the Knicks? I'm not denying he's still close to Dolan but this seems like all speculation.

Also, I think Charles Barkley said it the best over the All-Star Break. Why should the Knicks trade half their team for Melo when there is every chance he'll sign with us in the off-season?

Now the Nuggets want Mozgof too, reportedly. Seriously, **** this trade. The Nuggets can enjoy getting a bunch of ****** players from us in the off-season for a S&T.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Melo wants that 65 mill. I don't think we'll get him in FA anymore. If the CBA wasn't in flux I think he'd wait, but right now it's too risky for him to pass up on that 65 mill and enter FA.
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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He can suck it then. I'd rather have Paul or Deron Williams. We have enough pieces to get a deal done if they want out, which they probably will because Williams is still somewhat pissed at the Jazz for trading his best friend and the Hornets have been a **** organization since Paul has been there.

I'll take my chances on Melo in the off-season. As long as nothing wacky happens we can just S&T for Melo and get him his money.
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm tired of waiting for stars to come here. I don't want us to just assume we'll get CP3 or Derron. Like we assumed we'd get Lebron, like we assumed we'd get Melo.

We have a chance to get a star player, let's get him. I think we should hold tough and not include Mozgov, but if the clock is ticking on Thursday and Melo is a minute away from signing with the Nets, then you include Mozgov.

There's no question in my mind that I rather have CP3 or Derron than Melo, but I have no idea if we will get either one. Here's a chance to get Melo, let's get him.
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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You keep saying get Melo now cause he is a star but what is the point in giving up just about all your assets if you cant win with him.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Bc our assets aren't as great as we think they are. You can fill in the gaps with other players.

You're not getting Melo just for this year, this is a long term commitment. Think big picture, 2-3 years down the road.

In 2 years we can easily fill the rest of our roster and make a run. I don't think we can say the same thing if we go with the Gallo/Chandler/Felton combo long term moving forward.

The only asset that truly hurts to me is losing Felton. Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov, we can live without those guys.

Felton hurts a little. Hopefully Billups has some left in the tank and can mesh in this system.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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If this trade goes down and Mozgov is included, our new starting lineup is:

Turiaf
Stat
Melo

Billups
Fields

That starting 5 is still better than the one we currently have. Now sure, our bench takes a big hit in the short term, but we can live with that. Bench players aren't the biggest deal in the world, it's all about your starting 5 in the playoffs.

We might lose Turiaf in the offseason, so we'll need to sign a big man. That's why I'm hoping we keep Mozgov, bc he allows us to use a Mozzy/Turiaf 1,2 punch at Center all game long and keep Stat at the PF spot throughout the game, but if we lose him, it's not the end of the world.

I'd imagine our small lineup would be

Stat
Shawn Williams
Melo
Fields
Billups

Not too thrilled with that small lineup, and we all know D'Antoni loves small lineups, but again, the bottom line is this trade makes our starting 5 better, no question about it.

To me, this trade hurts your bench, that's it. But I'm just not valuing the bench as much as you guys are. It's just not that important in the playoffs.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:38 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Bc our assets aren't as great as we think they are. You can fill in the gaps with other players.

You're not getting Melo just for this year, this is a long term commitment. Think big picture, 2-3 years down the road.

In 2 years we can easily fill the rest of our roster and make a run. I don't think we can say the same thing if we go with the Gallo/Chandler/Felton combo long term moving forward.

The only asset that truly hurts to me is losing Felton. Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov, we can live without those guys.

Felton hurts a little. Hopefully Billups has some left in the tank and can mesh in this system.
I thought the goal was to win a title this move doesn't bring us closer to that seriously look at this bench after this trade

C Turiaf
PF Shawne Williams/Sheldon Williams
SF Bill Walker
SG Roger Mason/Azubuike
PG Douglas/Anthony Carter

That is an awful awful bench. Amare and Melo are not going to win a title by themselves. Your not going to win with just two guys.

Big picture? I assumed the big picture was to make a move for a title this is just you gutting your team for a guy who is right now clearly over rated. You keep complaining oh our pieces are over rated the 2 main pieces we are getting back are over rated as well.

You can make moves around Gallo, Chandler and Felton as well to make a run at a future title as well. When you make a move for a Melo you are making a move to win now not in 2 years. That is why Melo wanted out of Denver in the 1st place He wants to win now.

The most valuable asset we are giving is Gallo weather you want to admit it or not.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:48 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Melo isn't going to all of a sudden start sucking in 2 years.

Stat easily has at least 4 more years in the tank. Seriously, who gives a crap about the bench. We just need to somehow keep a combo of Mozgov/Turiaf long term to keep our Center position decent for a full 45 minutes, and we need a backup PG.

We needed to do that anyway. Now with Melo, you don't need a great bench, bc your starting 5 doesn't take a monumental hit on offense when you rest Stat, bc Melo is still on the floor. Conversely, when Melo needs a rest, you run the offense through Stat while he's off the floor, so our offense never takes the nosedive that it currently does whenever Stat gets a breather.

You're overrating the role of the bench immensely. We won't win crap with Gallo/Chandler/Felton long term.

Bring Felton back in 2 years if we can't get CP3, keep our draft picks starting in 2012 and just go from there.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Think about this for a second. Our bench, if this trade goes down, is the same bench that we currently have minus

Chandler
Mozgov

So we're complaining about what this does to our bench? Why? Bc we lose Chandler and Mozgov?

So it's more important to ultimately, not improve our starting lineup for the sake of keeping these 2 rotation guys?

Think about it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I think you're severely underrating the power of a good bench, BBD. This isn't college basketball where you get a few days off between every game so it's okay to have a short bench. Look back at a number of the teams who have one championships. Having a few good bench players can be huge in trying to win a ring. Guys like Posey and House for the when the Celtic won theirs. Odom for the Lakers. Manu and Robert Horry for the Spurs teams (amongst others). I mean the Spurs were more known more for their great bench and defense rather than having several stars. Manu and Parker are great players but few people consider them elite.

I don't know how much basketball you've watched since the Knicks have sucked BBD, but having a good bench is critical not only to your team success in the playoffs but as well as keeping guys fresh during the season, thereby having them at their best in the playoffs. Look how the Spurs have maintained themselves through the years, despite aging. Hell, they're the best team in the NBA again now that they've got an elite bench with guys like Gary Neal, George Hill, James Anderson, etc.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Melo isn't going to all of a sudden start sucking in 2 years.

Stat easily has at least 4 more years in the tank. Seriously, who gives a crap about the bench. We just need to somehow keep a combo of Mozgov/Turiaf long term to keep our Center position decent for a full 45 minutes, and we need a backup PG.

We needed to do that anyway. Now with Melo, you don't need a great bench, bc your starting 5 doesn't take a monumental hit on offense when you rest Stat, bc Melo is still on the floor. Conversely, when Melo needs a rest, you run the offense through Stat while he's off the floor, so our offense never takes the nosedive that it currently does whenever Stat gets a breather.

You're overrating the role of the bench immensely. We won't win crap with Gallo/Chandler/Felton long term.

Bring Felton back in 2 years if we can't get CP3, keep our draft picks starting in 2012 and just go from there.
I didn't say he would start sucking but the whole point of him wanting out is cause Denver is not in position to win. The lineup as it would stand after this trade( I think Moz stays and without looking at any moves we can make after) does not win you a title which defeats the whole purpose of the move.

People who actually know basketball give a crap about the bench. Every team that has won a title has won with good role players off the bench you cant win with out them.

This isn't a video game in real basketball you need role players.

If your going to rest Stat and just play Melo you are taking a huge hit on offense what are you talking about? Amare is our only post presence on O. Who is going to score in the post with the roster as it would stand after this trade? Seriously don't worry I will wait for you to come up for 1 offensive option we would have cause we would have none we would be even more jumper based with those lineups.

Your under rating the role of the bench. You wont win crap with just 2 players.

Felton would came back again why? and your getting CP3 away from the NBA owned Hornets how?
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