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Old 02-02-2011, 12:18 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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My main beef with Chandler is he can't drive to both sides of the ball. That's a major flaw in his game. His game has fell off lately since the Melo trade rumors, it's clearly effecting his game.

Truth be told, the way things are shaping up, it's a very realistic possibility that Melo becomes a Knick. And if that does happen, we're simply too deep at SF.

Bc there's just no room for both melo and Gallo/Chandler. Sure, we can go small and have

C: Stat
PF: Gallo
SF: Melo

but, that's probably the worst rebounding and defensive front court in the league.

If we get Melo, chances are we're going to have to trade both Gallo and Chandler. 1 in a package for Melo, and the other for a legit defensive rebounding Center.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm a fan of both Gallo and Chandler but the Knicks need Melo if they want to take the next step into the NBA elite. It's really that simple. Stat & Melo would be a dangerous 1-2 combination.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm a fan of both Gallo and Chandler but the Knicks need Melo if they want to take the next step into the NBA elite. It's really that simple. Stat & Melo would be a dangerous 1-2 combination.
Pretty much. And if we do get Melo, whoever stays, be it Gallo or Chandler, either of them should be moved for a Center.

The only player that's untouchable to me is Stat. I really wish we can keep Fields too, but I doubt we can. He's almost guaranteed to be part of a trade for Melo.

Fields needs to work on that jumper though. He'll never be an elite player, but he'll always be a great role player. I'm gonna miss him if we lose him.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I've kind of soured on Melo a bit. His attitude isn't great, he's not an elite superstar, he's a excellent player and a superb scorer but he's just not a very good team player.

I really don't want to give up Gallo or Chandler for him. If he wants to come to the Knicks so badly he'll sign in the off-season.

Right now I'm more concerned with getting a big man who can play some defense, a back up PG, and maybe another outside shooter or two.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Carmelo is 3X the player than Gallo or Chandler. 3x is probably an understatement.

Think of it this way, who was the best player Melo ever had on his team? He's never had a guy like Stat to play with. He's not on the same level as Lebron or Wade, but Melo is one notch below that.

And worst case scenario, you move him for another star player in the future. It's easy trading 1 star for another. This is a great opportunity to aquire a star player while only giving up role players for him.

These kind of opportunities don't present themselves all the time.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Carmelo is 3X the player than Gallo or Chandler. 3x is probably an understatement.

Think of it this way, who was the best player Melo ever had on his team? He's never had a guy like Stat to play with. He's not on the same level as Lebron or Wade, but Melo is one notch below that.

And worst case scenario, you move him for another star player in the future. It's easy trading 1 star for another. This is a great opportunity to aquire a star player while only giving up role players for him.

These kind of opportunities don't present themselves all the time.
I'm not trying to say Gallo or Chandler is better by any means. I just think if we want Melo we should wait to the off-season. It's clear he doesn't want to go to the Nets. It's also clear his number one team is the Knicks. Lets keep guys who can be great contributors or trade pieces in Gallo, Chandler and Fields and let the chips fall where they may in the off-season.

Worst case scenario he goes elsewhere and we package some players for another star who will inevitably want to get dealt.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm not trying to say Gallo or Chandler is better by any means. I just think if we want Melo we should wait to the off-season. It's clear he doesn't want to go to the Nets. It's also clear his number one team is the Knicks. Lets keep guys who can be great contributors or trade pieces in Gallo, Chandler and Fields and let the chips fall where they may in the off-season.

Worst case scenario he goes elsewhere and we package some players for another star who will inevitably want to get dealt.
In a perfect world we get Melo in the offseason, but I just don't see it happening. He'll eventually cave and sign that 65 mill extension.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I rather trade for Chris Paul than Melo.

Then trade Felton for a Center, or a SG. And sign a C/SG in the offseason. Guys I'd be interested in is Chandler and Dalambert at Center.

Rumor has it the Knicks aren't that interested in Melo to begin with. I forgot where I read that. They don't want to give up 5 guys in a deal for Melo. Supposedly 3 players and a draft pick.

Which will probably be:

Chandler
Fields
Curry's contract
1st for Randolph
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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My main beef with Chandler is he can't drive to both sides of the ball. That's a major flaw in his game. His game has fell off lately since the Melo trade rumors, it's clearly effecting his game.

Truth be told, the way things are shaping up, it's a very realistic possibility that Melo becomes a Knick. And if that does happen, we're simply too deep at SF.

Bc there's just no room for both melo and Gallo/Chandler. Sure, we can go small and have

C: Stat
PF: Gallo
SF: Melo

but, that's probably the worst rebounding and defensive front court in the league.

If we get Melo, chances are we're going to have to trade both Gallo and Chandler. 1 in a package for Melo, and the other for a legit defensive rebounding Center.
Melo guarded Kobe in the WCF. If he can do that he can play the 2 down the stretch in the playoffs. That's why I think it's so important to keep Gallo or Chandler, with Gallo being my preference. It lets us go small with Felton, Fields, Melo, Gallo and Stat or big with Felts, Melo, Gallo, Stat and a Center.

I think it's a mistake to give up one of Gallo or Chandler for a Center because we won't get a C good enough to replace the impact a guy like Gallo has on the game. If we could get a guy as good as Mark Gasol, Bogut or a prime Okur that'd be great and I'd do it, but we won't. Any C we get for Gallo or Chandler won't be complete and will either get in the way offensively, or be just a mediocre Defender or Rebounder at which point is he really that much better than a guy like Turiaf or possibly even Mozzie?

I just don't know who this magic C we could get is other than Nene, who I like, but isn't worth giving up Gallo for. Dallas won't trade Chandler and Dally would get in the way on O because he's not even a good passer like Turiaf is and isn't even a great enough Defender to make up for it. That's not a solution and would be a down grade from either Gallo or Chandler's impact on offense and our ability to get out and run.That's why so many of our rebounds go to our guards, we're trying to get out and run and so instead of waiting the few second it would take for Dally to find a guard and pass him the ball, our bigs will just box out and let the easy rebounds go to the guards so that we can start moving down the court faster.

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Honestly, I've kind of soured on Melo a bit. His attitude isn't great, he's not an elite superstar, he's a excellent player and a superb scorer but he's just not a very good team player.

I really don't want to give up Gallo or Chandler for him. If he wants to come to the Knicks so badly he'll sign in the off-season.

Right now I'm more concerned with getting a big man who can play some defense, a back up PG, and maybe another outside shooter or two.
I'd give up Chandler, but I really would hate to give up Gallo, you saw in the Miami game that the only guys we have who can score in the halfcourt against good D are Gallo and Amare. We could use another guy like that in Melo, but Melo's a guy I waffle on and that worries me when talking about giving up a king's ransom for a "superstar" we can sign in the offseason.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 02-03-2011, 06:33 AM    (permalink
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The rebounding on our team is absolutely pathetic. It's going to be the death of us. I love Stat, but god he is an awful rebounder. Sometimes it doesn't even look like he tries to rebound.

So many rebounds by Dallas last night where they simply just out hustled our big men. It was pathetic.

I guess Mozgov fell back down to earth too. Just a bad game.

We really need to do something about our rebounding woes.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I thought Mozzie played alright, he's still a raw rookie getting acclimated to the NBA. Games like Detroit just reminds us of what tools he has, games like today remind us how much work he still has to go to properly utilize those tools.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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I'm not gonna give up on Mozzy just yet. He needs time. I do think he should get more minutes just to get his feet wet. 1 rebound in 10 minutes is pretty awful at 7 1" though. He's gotta get stronger.

I noticed our team is so eager to get going in transition that often they forget to get the damn rebound first, and they just get out hustled on the boards. It's so frustrating.

Our best rebounder is Fields, and he's a SG. That's sad.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, we certainly need to get a rebounding/defensive center during the off-season. If we can't get a quality player like Gasol or Bogut, like Rosebud said, we're better off seeing if we can get someone on the cheap in the off-season via trade or free agency. Even if it's just a one dimensional center.

I agree with BBD that I'd rather have CP3 than Melo. I've always felt that way though. Can you imagine CP3 in D'Antoni's offense? He could put up 25-12 every night with ease.
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm not gonna give up on Mozzy just yet. He needs time. I do think he should get more minutes just to get his feet wet. 1 rebound in 10 minutes is pretty awful at 7 1" though. He's gotta get stronger.

I noticed our team is so eager to get going in transition that often they forget to get the damn rebound first, and they just get out hustled on the boards. It's so frustrating.

Our best rebounder is Fields, and he's a SG. That's sad.
Read one of my last posts, Mike D wants the guards grabbing as many boards as they can. Plus Landry Fields just has sublime instincts when rebounding the ball, he is afterall one of the best rebounding wings in the league as a rookie. Not saying we don't need to rebound better, just saying I'd look at our team rebounds instead of getting to focused in on individual numbers since ideally on D our bigs would box out and one of the guards will come down with the board, letting everyone just start running the instant the board is secured.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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You know you love him BBD! Haha.
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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That's so great, BBD, how can you not want to make cute Gallo babies after seeing stuff like that?
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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I tell you what, if he can consistently attack the basket the way he has lately, I'll like him a lot more.

That has always been my main beef with him. Now he's finally attacking.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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I'm so pissed we lost last night. How did that happen? The Sixers suck. It's like we came out flat bc we underestimated them, then came back, then let up, and before you know it, had to make a crazy come back just to potentially send it to OT, and we lose.

The Knicks don't do a very good job of winning close games. It all goes back to defense and rebounds. You will not be a successful playoff team if you can't win close games, and you can't win close games if you can't play defense and rebound the ball.

It's part players, and part coach. I really don't like D'Antoni's brand of basketball. There are elements of it that I do like, but his overall blueprint is just flawed.

Positive notes:

-Mozgov is developing. He's high effort, you can tell his teammates don't trust him yet on the offensive side of the ball. He posts up, he requests the ball, but they just don't give it to him. All his points are on put backs. That trust will develop with time. I like his rebounding as well. It's obviously too early to really expect much from him, but the progress is nice to see. I want him to get more minutes as the season goes on.

To be fair, I expected us to outrebound Philly. They're a very short team. The true test of our rebounding is when we go against the Dallas's of the world, the teams with some muscle up front. We were dominated on the boards vs them.

-Gallo is really attacking the hoop right now. I tell you what, as much as I kill the guy, if he can bring it like that every night, I'll turn a new leaf on him. That's exactly what I've been asking from him for so long. He's finally attacking the hoop on a consistent basis.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Melo's agent informing teams he will only sign an extension with the Knicks.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Melo's agent informing teams he will only sign an extension with the Knicks.
That makes you wonder. If his agent is making it known he will only sign with the Knicks, then why on earth should the Knicks trade anything away for him? Why not just wait until next year and get him as a FA?

And if you're Melo, what do you gain by putting this information out? Now your chances of signing that extension is pretty much zilch. Why should the Knicks trade for you when they know you'll sign with them anyway?

It's all kind of confusing to me. I just hope we get him somehow.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm so pissed we lost last night. How did that happen? The Sixers suck. It's like we came out flat bc we underestimated them, then came back, then let up, and before you know it, had to make a crazy come back just to potentially send it to OT, and we lose.

The Knicks don't do a very good job of winning close games. It all goes back to defense and rebounds. You will not be a successful playoff team if you can't win close games, and you can't win close games if you can't play defense and rebound the ball.

It's part players, and part coach. I really don't like D'Antoni's brand of basketball. There are elements of it that I do like, but his overall blueprint is just flawed.

Positive notes:

-Mozgov is developing. He's high effort, you can tell his teammates don't trust him yet on the offensive side of the ball. He posts up, he requests the ball, but they just don't give it to him. All his points are on put backs. That trust will develop with time. I like his rebounding as well. It's obviously too early to really expect much from him, but the progress is nice to see. I want him to get more minutes as the season goes on.

To be fair, I expected us to outrebound Philly. They're a very short team. The true test of our rebounding is when we go against the Dallas's of the world, the teams with some muscle up front. We were dominated on the boards vs them.

-Gallo is really attacking the hoop right now. I tell you what, as much as I kill the guy, if he can bring it like that every night, I'll turn a new leaf on him. That's exactly what I've been asking from him for so long. He's finally attacking the hoop on a consistent basis.
Mozzie makes me really happy walsh took that gamble. He's clearly been putting in a lot of work in practice with the coaches and Amar'e. I think if he can actually become the player he has the talent to become he'd be one of the best fits at Center for this coach and roster. His athleticism, jumper and unselfishness make him a potentially good fit to not clog the lane for Amar'e on O. He can block shots on D even though his man D in the paint isn't very good, although that's because he doesn't have much experience with it since his teams in russia had him rushing out to meet the point guard on the perimeter. He's rebounding a lot better than I expected. Being a guy who was taught to focus on boxing out and not going after the boards I thought he'd struggle to rebound consistently although he seems to be making a much better effort on that front now than he was. I gotta give the coaching staff and Amar'e credit for what they've done with Mozzie so far, kid good get some real burn as a serious rotation piece now and I'm excited to see how it goes.

BBD this is the guy Gallo was in Italy, well he also was the primary playmaker for his team, but we haven't seen that yet, but as a scorer Gallo was a slasher who could hit some clutch shots and get really hot from three but it was his craftiness going to the hoop that lead to all of his success in Italy. Then he came to the knicks, hit a growth spurt and just showed up hitting every shot he could find, so the team mis-read him thinking that he would be a Dirk or Peja like perimeter sniper when that wasn't his game, it didn't help that on those god awful knick teams he actually was the most consistent 3-pt sniper we had. Now he's finally getting to play more like he did in Europe and I think the next step we'll see from Gallo is him running the PnR sometimes, be it when Felton's on the bench or even with Felton spotting up I think we'll start seeing Gallo and Amare raping some teams with that. If that happens before the playoffs start this year I'm going to be really excited for our matchup with the Bulls, might even get tickets to one of the games in chicago.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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That makes you wonder. If his agent is making it known he will only sign with the Knicks, then why on earth should the Knicks trade anything away for him? Why not just wait until next year and get him as a FA?

And if you're Melo, what do you gain by putting this information out? Now your chances of signing that extension is pretty much zilch. Why should the Knicks trade for you when they know you'll sign with them anyway?

It's all kind of confusing to me. I just hope we get him somehow.
Knicks lose at least Chandler and probably AR or Turiaf just to open up a full max to sign Melo this summer and lose the chance to use the MLE if it still exists in the next CBA. So there's that inherent cost to waiting for the summer, which is why I would trade Wilson Chandler, AR, Buike and Eddy Curry for Melo if Denver would take it but wouldn't up that offer. Which I think is somewhat close to what Donnie's doing as he waits it out.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Mozzie makes me really happy walsh took that gamble. He's clearly been putting in a lot of work in practice with the coaches and Amar'e. I think if he can actually become the player he has the talent to become he'd be one of the best fits at Center for this coach and roster. His athleticism, jumper and unselfishness make him a potentially good fit to not clog the lane for Amar'e on O. He can block shots on D even though his man D in the paint isn't very good, although that's because he doesn't have much experience with it since his teams in russia had him rushing out to meet the point guard on the perimeter. He's rebounding a lot better than I expected. Being a guy who was taught to focus on boxing out and not going after the boards I thought he'd struggle to rebound consistently although he seems to be making a much better effort on that front now than he was. I gotta give the coaching staff and Amar'e credit for what they've done with Mozzie so far, kid good get some real burn as a serious rotation piece now and I'm excited to see how it goes.

BBD this is the guy Gallo was in Italy, well he also was the primary playmaker for his team, but we haven't seen that yet, but as a scorer Gallo was a slasher who could hit some clutch shots and get really hot from three but it was his craftiness going to the hoop that lead to all of his success in Italy. Then he came to the knicks, hit a growth spurt and just showed up hitting every shot he could find, so the team mis-read him thinking that he would be a Dirk or Peja like perimeter sniper when that wasn't his game, it didn't help that on those god awful knick teams he actually was the most consistent 3-pt sniper we had. Now he's finally getting to play more like he did in Europe and I think the next step we'll see from Gallo is him running the PnR sometimes, be it when Felton's on the bench or even with Felton spotting up I think we'll start seeing Gallo and Amare raping some teams with that. If that happens before the playoffs start this year I'm going to be really excited for our matchup with the Bulls, might even get tickets to one of the games in chicago.
Mozgov makes you wonder, do we need that backup center or do we just gamble on Moz developing more in the offseason?

That's why I hope we really increase his minutes this year. So we get a better idea of what to expect next year from him. He needs reps.

I really like the matchup vs the Bulls. I think we should beat them if we play them in the playoffs.

To me, this year will be a success if we win the 1st round. Everything after that is gravy. But I do want to win a playoff series.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Mozgov makes you wonder, do we need that backup center or do we just gamble on Moz developing more in the offseason?

That's why I hope we really increase his minutes this year. So we get a better idea of what to expect next year from him. He needs reps.

I really like the matchup vs the Bulls. I think we should beat them if we play them in the playoffs.

To me, this year will be a success if we win the 1st round. Everything after that is gravy. But I do want to win a playoff series.
I want to win a playoff series, but this is the first time I've been able to tell people in Chicago that I'm a Knicks fan without feeling a little embarassed since 99, when I was all of 10 years old and the Michael Jordan statue could still teabag me from the United Center. If we can make the playoffs and our young guys can really get a good taste/make it a really tough battle. I want a win, but I will be happy if the Knicks can do what the Colorado Avalanche did in the NHL last year, which is put up a really tough fight before ultimately losing in 6 after losing an OT game in game 5 where they were a few inches away from a win.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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As for Mozzie yep. That's why I don't want Dalembert or a guy like that who's not going to get more than 20 minutes on this team. If we could get a guy who'd get big minutes like Nene I'd be all for it, but he's almost the only guy we might be able to get who I'd be really stoked about.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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