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View Poll Results: What do you do?
Take the guaranteed points. 50 53.76%
Run the clock down and attempt the Field Goal. 43 46.24%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-16-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm sure jose cortez will be happy to learn he didn't actually miss a 10-19 yd FG in 2001, since they're equivalent.

and why would we care what coaches use? we're arguing over whether WE think it was the right call. i don't care if raheem morris or jack del rio or whichever coach you feel like channeling would've done it.
Thanks for making my point going way back to 2001. That's about how often a kick like that is missed. That and the John Carney XP 3 or 4 years ago and Romo in the playoffs. Yet how often do we see teams drive entire lengths of the field in the 2 minutes drill to win a game?

Del Rio played the percentages. Kicking that FG gave his team a better chance to win the game.

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Old 11-16-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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his name was the first one i looked for and then posted. but yeah, i have no doubt you spent even a third of a second looking up relevant statistical backing for your claim.

we see team's drive down the field in the final two minutes constantly, because nfl people still seem to think the prevent is a valid defensive strategy, despite the fact that everyone else on earth sees weekly proof that it's not.

*shrug* if i'm making the call, that's not a problem.



did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?

further, i disagree with the strategy. i would, at all times, attempt to avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker.
I think Del Rio did tell him to take the dive. If he didn't want him to take the dive he would tried to put it in afterwards instead of taking knees.

I just don't know why you would avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker there when they easily convert at greater percentages than defenses do.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Running the clock out should only be a consideration for a team that has secured the lead. Take the TD and play defense.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?
Maybe not Del Rio personally but a member of coaching staff did, I think i heard it was the RB coach but I could be wrong.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Running the clock out should only be a consideration for a team that has secured the lead. Take the TD and play defense.
What about punting with a lead and playing defense?
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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What about punting with a lead and playing defense?
Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Jose Cortez makes my blood boil.

I take the points every time, if I don't have the lead.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?

further, i disagree with the strategy. i would, at all times, attempt to avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker.
RB coach Kennedy Pola did, but MJD quoted him as saying "we're thinking about taking a knee." So it was probably approved by JDR, yes.

There's about a 95% chance the Jaguars would win if they did what they did on Sunday. Looking at my post on the second page, the Jaguars have allowed 11 drives this season that took up the time the Jets would have had. Knowing our ****** defense, I think it was a good move.

I think the mental disagreement comes with the realization of what would have happened had it gone wrong. We would be shocked, Jaguars fans would jump off the Modis building, etc. Why? Because we know that the goof would be so fantastically rare that the Jaguars must be cursed to have it happened to them. So the fear that doing it might make the worst happen is based off of the realization that the chances it should be made are extremely great.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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RB coach Kennedy Pola did, but MJD quoted him as saying "we're thinking about taking a knee." So it was probably approved by JDR, yes.

There's about a 95% chance the Jaguars would win if they did what they did on Sunday. Looking at my post on the second page, the Jaguars have allowed 11 drives this season that took up the time the Jets would have had. Knowing our ****** defense, I think it was a good move.

I think the mental disagreement comes with the realization of what would have happened had it gone wrong. We would be shocked, Jaguars fans would jump off the Modis building, etc. Why? Because we know that the goof would be so fantastically rare that the Jaguars must be cursed to have it happened to them. So the fear that doing it might make the worst happen is based off of the realization that the chances it should be made are extremely great.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."
Coach Singletary, is that you?

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Old 11-16-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I wish more coaches would "step outside the box" and do stuff like this when it makes your team more likely to win but kind of goes against the way football has been played the last 50 or years.

I think I've only seen it once, but another example would be this. Down by 11 with 1:30 left and you have a 3rd and 10 at the opponents 15 with no timeouts left, kick the fg. The chances of you converting that first down are less than the chances of making the fg. Take your three points since you need them eventually anyway, and now if you get the onside kick, you hopefully won't get in a 3rd or 4th and long like that again.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."
Only problem with that is, you also have a coach on the other side looking into his QBs eyes and saying the same thing. If everyone "did their job", every game would finish in a tie. Some players do their jobs better than others. Such as a kicker hitting a 20 yard fg rather than a defense preventing a 2 minute drill from reaching the endzone.

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Old 11-16-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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I take the points and go for 2 every single time in that situation.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Its simple. What do you think is more likely, you fail to convert the equivalent of an extra point or the Jets score a TD in 90 seconds without a time out.

I think the Jets won't score very often but the Jags won't miss the kick even less often.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Njx, if this was last year's Broncos, would you have supported the knee? Or maybe the year before when we had Elam? I dunno if I would have. Although a rookie QB might have tilted it in favour of taking the points. But against any good QB I would never have trusted that Broncos D, especially since you know it was gonna be prevent the whole way down the field.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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fair enough, i was watching on red zone, so there wasn't much context beyond the plays they actually ran.



this. if my d is so bad i can't count on them when it matters; i can't ever count on them. i'd release my punter and go for it on 4th every time.

EDIT: which i just realized may be taken as a subtle dig. it's NOT meant to be.
Oh yeah, the Jaguars punter is also terrible. Podlesh has one of the worst averages in the league.

So yeah, the coaches can't count on the defense and the punter. Which is why they counted on the kicker, who in that range is more proven than our bad defense and punter.

EDIT:

the punter doesn't kick off. woops. Scobee actually has a great KO leg. haha that was stupid.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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If it makes you feel better he apologized to his fantasy owners.
**** that. I could have had a 2 game lead for 2nd place and a first round bye. Although he will probably make up for this by ripping Buffalo nine butt holes next week
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, the Jaguars punter is also terrible. Podlesh has one of the worst averages in the league.

So yeah, the coaches can't count on the defense and the punter. Which is why they counted on the kicker, who in that range is more proven than our bad defense and punter.

EDIT:

the punter doesn't kick off. woops. Scobee actually has a great KO leg. haha that was stupid.
What's it like to have a kicker that can get a touchback? I bet it's nice.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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They were debating this on ESPN, I was curious as to which side everyone here was on. For those of you who don't know what happened:

Score is: New York - 22, Jacksonville - 21. With under two minutes to go on 2nd & 6 from the 10 yard line Maurice Jones-Drew gets the carry and races towards the endzone. It looks like he has an easy touchdown, but instead he dives down at the one yard line to keep the clock running, as the Jets had no more time outs left. After two kneel downs by David Garrard, Josh Scobee kicked a 21-yard field goal as time expired.

Ok, so here is the question. What would you have done in that situation? Do you take the guaranteed 6 points (7 with the PAT) and give the Jets about 1:30 to work with? Or do you run the clock down and possibly risk a mishandled snap, a shanked kick, or a blocked kick?
Go for the field goal. All you have to do to avoid a mishap is kick the field goal on 3rd down so that if something goes wrong, you can try again on 4th down.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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This isn't like video games where you're pretty much guaranteed a good snap, and the defense not blocking it.
Yes it is.

There have been over 500 touchdowns this season and 8 missed extra points. That's a pretty solid percentage of success.

You have a lot better chance to make an extra point-like FG than stop a touchdown drive.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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If you try to kick it, you lose possession of the ball, regardless of the down.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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Originally Posted by DeepThreat View Post
If you try to kick it, you lose possession of the ball, regardless of the down.
Only if you kick it though. If it's a bad snap, you're free to throw the ball away/look to score or whatever and try again on 4th.
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do i tell you when to flip the burger?
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:17 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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Pineapples and Asparagi are better comparisons.
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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For me, what it comes down to as the coach is which you have more confidence in...

1. Your defense keeping the Jets from going the length of the field with 2 minutes to score a TD

or

2. Josh Scobee making an 21 yard field goal right in the middle of the field.

I'd take the FG every time.

Put the game in your hands. Not the other team's.
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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in case you missed it, it wasn't an extra point. i'm sure we'll quit comparing apples to oranges shortly.
To be fair it was a 21 yd. field goal being compared to an extra point, which is in essence a 19 yd. field goal. So to claim the comparison is comparing apples to oranges strikes me as a touch drastic. It is more along the lines of comparing lemons and limes, a case in which there are certain differences but overall you're looking at two strikingly similar things.

Last edited by Wally03 : 11-16-2009 at 08:46 PM.
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