Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
Bengalsrocket
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,424
Reputation: 307159
Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm not sure it's really relevant what "mobility" meant in 198x. just call it pocket awareness and make the more obvious comparisons. suggesting marino had mobility evokes memories of the chad pennington "juke".
I don't disagree. I was just trying to translate what people mean by Marino's mobility. I mean, he was mobile, but basically only in the pocket :P The guy had bad knees and was never really a threat to run the ball or even scramble out of the pocket. He did have amazing footwork though.
Bengalsrocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 07:40 PM    (permalink
Arsenal
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 199
Reputation: 5210
Arsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairArsenal is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hair
Default

They literally had to change pass interference rules for Mel Blount back in the 1970s. I'm not sure if he invented it really but Blount took bump and run coverage to a whole new level to the point where they had to make the illegal contact rule, also known as the "Mel Blount rule."
Arsenal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 08:32 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KO-V>O-V
Posts: 14,841
Reputation: 1045649
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
They literally had to change pass interference rules for Mel Blount back in the 1970s. I'm not sure if he invented it really but Blount took bump and run coverage to a whole new level to the point where they had to make the illegal contact rule, also known as the "Mel Blount rule."
And then it went away sorta for a while till they were all like "oh **** gaiz i foundz a rule" and it become known as the Ty Law rule to some fans and the "GODDAMMITWHYCOULDNTYOUHAVECALLEDTHISWHENTHEMOTHER* *****HELDPOLLARD!?!?!?!" rule by Colts fans.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do i tell you when to flip the burger?
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 12:33 AM    (permalink
singe_101
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 325
Reputation: 55548
singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.singe_101 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Bo
Deion, or Darrell Green. Plus he played forever
Randall McDaniel, freakish guard

Vick looked like he could, he was like Blitz.

I want to say Moss because there were other fast receivers who could outrun any corners, but he could catch 80-100 and get the fades

Kurt Warner, undrafted
Gates, power forward - tight end, undrafted

Tomlinson, passed to Ronnie Brown

Vrabel :D

I want to say Jason Taylor, giving 50-100 lbs to OTs but a Top 5 DE for a long time with zero injuries. Could play OLB but not required to.

If Peppers had gotten better then maybe, just a different blend than most DEs. He could run down Vick.
__________________
DeAngelo Hall looks like James Harden.

Last edited by singe_101 : 12-09-2009 at 12:36 AM.
singe_101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 12:43 AM    (permalink
vikes_28
Resident Ginger
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vermillion
Posts: 5,375
Reputation: 364712
vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vikes_28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ray Lewis.
__________________

sig by fenikz
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImBrotherCain View Post
You are just a terrible person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I have an iPhone.
vikes_28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 12:48 AM    (permalink
aNYtitan
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of
Posts: 5,162
Reputation: 75285
aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.aNYtitan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I start the list with Lawrence Taylor, he changed the way a QB is supposed to be protected on the blind side.

Tom Brady for the wrong reasons, his knee injury changed the way QB's have to be hit.
2 quick ones right off the top of my head
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Show me your Wang, if you will.
aNYtitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 10:17 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Tom Haverford
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,388
Reputation: 4397441
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i just wanted to repeat this. your favorite player from last year has not changed the game. period.

like, ronnie brown? really? i'm sure it has to do with the wildcat, but it's not like he's the only running back who's shown he can run it. it's not DMC's fault that the raiders are garbage.

i don't even buy moss. he's big and fast and spectacularly talented. how, exactly, did he change the game? there've been other deep threats in history, and there've been plenty of guys who wouldn't catch over the middle.

while we're on it, we're talking about changing THE game, not changing A game. there's a vast wilderness of difference between the two.
This is true, I didn't think of it that way. My reasoning was how in his prime (he kind of lost a step this year and it started last year), nobody has dictated coverages the way he has. And historically, he was the main ingredient to the 2 best offenses in NFL history.

Im torn between Ronnie Lott and Brian Dawkins. Before Ronnie Lott, no safety played with the same range and playmaking ability that he had. However, there was a dormant period in the 90s after Lott. Then came Brian Dawkins, who pretty much was the 1st of the new age prototype safeties, and following him came the likes of Polumalu and Ed Reed. It seems like at least superficially, Dawkins set the trend. Whereas Lott was just an incredible talent way ahead of his time.

I don't know what to make of that. I'm probably forgetting some safeties from the 90s as well during that "dormant" period that im thinking of.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,410
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
I made a list of them. I left off some people because I don't think their play is applicable anymore, but are there any I missed? I was wondering because that term "players who will change the game forever" gets tossed around quite a bit yet really don't.

Here's my list:
Ken Anderson was what some might call a "proof of concept" or "engineering sample" for Bill Walsh. Under Walsh as OC of the Cincinnati Bengals, Anderson went from among the worst QBs in the league to the best in one years time using the then brand new West Coast Offense (which is not an actual offense nor was it founded on the west coast.) which emphasized timing between the QB and WRs. Basically Walsh believed that a play should be executable in completely pitch black conditions. While Joe Montana might get the most credit, it was Ken Anderson that proved that Walsh could take a particular kind of QB and make them produce like an elite one.

Quote:
This is a great point and it wasn't till many years later that DC's and HC's figured out how to stop the WCO.
Shannon Sharpe was either too slow to be a WR or too small and weak to be a TE. No one thought he could blow by DBs and he wasn't going to be big enough to be the 6th OL on the field. Looking back now, it's obvious what they needed to do with him, but at the time it wasn't so obvious. When they got him into camp, they quickly realized what kind of talent they had in sharpe where he could make mobile blocks of LBs and DBs, was too big for DBs to cover, and too quick for linebackers to cover. He created the pass catching TE.

Quote:
Again, another fine example of a player who changed the discription for the position he played.
Laurence Taylor coming out of college was too small to play DE in the NFL. What NFL GMs failed to realize is that he was too fast *not* to play DE. Under Bill Belichick (DC) and Bill Parcells (HC), Taylor was converted to OLB in their 34 defense. His primary role was to rush the passer. What seems like common knowledge today wasn't then. The LT was just another OL. Quickly it became apparent that just any other OL could not block Taylor. They'd have to move TEs and HBs out to double team him. If you want to know how that worked out, just ask Joe Theismann, who's career was promptly ended by Taylor on what could be one of the most brutal hits in NFL history, most of which were done by Taylor.

Quote:
My memory may be failing me but I don't believe the Giants under Parcells changed to a 3-4 defense. I believe that came later in his career. I also question that it's what caused the LT position to become so important. There had been lots of great DE's long before Taylor and protecting a QB's blind side was well established. Moving TE's and RB to help the LT wasn't that unusual. What Taylor did prove is that an OLB with tremendous speed could be used effectively as a pass rusher. That wasn't common prior to Taylor.
Orlando Pace may not be the first, but he was the best "first" true left tackle. Shortly before he entered the league, Laurence Taylor (and others) created the term "blind side" tackle. The QB sure didn't know what was currently happening on that side of the field but he know what would happen if he didn't get the ball away quickly. At least that was until Orlando Pace entered into the league. While QBs still didn't have unlimited amount of time to throw, Orlando Pace's amazing athleticism and footwork combined with his huge frame (well not huge by some standard but for his athleticism yes) quickly added a counter to that free-ranging, speedy pass rusher. He would inspire coaches to move TEs Joe Thomas and Jason Smith (just to name a few) to the OT position.

Quote:
I don't think I agree with this assessment. LT's had been protecting QB's blind side for ever even if this term wasn't in use. Taylor increased the responsibilities of the LT with the increased pass rushing provided by an OLB but LT's had been taking on pass rushers for a long time before Pace.
Rodney Harrison is either a guy you love or you hate. Either you think he's a dirty football player or he's what football is about. However, there is one thing you can't deny, he changed the safety position possibly forever. Harrison is the only player in NFL history with 30 sacks and 30 interceptions. He could cover TEs as well as rush the passer. Harrison could drop into coverage. He was an integral part to 2 super bowl championships in NE. While some might disagree, I don't think his overall talent stemmed from his HGH use. It was just Rodney Harrison's nose for the ball that made him great. He could hit like a linebacker, cover like a safety, and rush like a linebacker. Troy Polamalu is a product of Rodney Harrison doing what he did.

Quote:
I think it was more HC's tinkering with different uses for different positions that changed the game. The fundamental game of football was simply changing from a stagnant consistent system into one where a great amount of experimentation was taking place on both sides of the ball, Almost every position was getting some attention to see if new formations with different objectives would work in the NFL. Everything in the game was changing and technique became much more important than was previously recognized. Some of the changes were caused by rule changes, some by different defensive and offensive schemes, some by experimenting with different types of people playing a position who could do more things such as a Vick at QB. I don't think you can say a player was responsible for the change, often it was the genius of the HC or coordinator who made it possible for players to accomplish different types of stats for a position.

In the case of Sharpe and Taylor, it wasn't so easy to just play them at TE or DE. Teams were mostly run first teams back then and that required a big TE and a big DE. It took a lot of imagination on the part of their HC's to try to untilize a different set of measurables to play a position differently from other teams. This took a lot of skill and guts from their HC's to try something different and it is probably reflected in their SB victories.
Before Dan Marino came into the league, the records for passing and rushing were held by one man, Fran Tarkenton. While Marino would establish his legacy mainly as a drop back passer, he had some pretty good running ability too. However, it was nothing like Tarkenton. Tarkenton is what people wish they could have made Vince Young, Michael Vick, and others into. Tarkenton's records were "unbreakable". Enter Dan Marino, stage right. While the 1983 QB class is among the greatest ever with names like Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, and John Elway headlining the class, Dan Marino clearly stands out alone. He not only broke records that were never going to be broken, he put them where no one had ever imagined possible. Today we look back and think well Favre broke the so what... But Marino's records lasted ages and would be one of the key pieces in defining what people look at as a prototypical QB (along with Joe Montana), Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Quote:
I don't completely agree with this idea. QB's who don't win championships rarely have a long lasting impact on the game. Actually, Marino really represented the old guard of QB's, a guy who stood behind his OL and threw the ball down the field. He certainly wasn't a mobile QB. His records had a lot to do with how often he threw the ball rather than any change from previous generations. His WR's had a lot more to do with influencing future players who played their position being short, light weight with speed and quickness.
Ray Guy is probably the prototypical Al Davis pick. (minus the 40 yard dash time). While Davis is regarded as insane today, he used the 14th overall pick to draft Ray Guy. If you haven't heard of him, you might wonder what the big deal is, but the big deal is he is a punter. The only punter ever drafted in the first round... ever. While the Raiders punting game was bad, no one expected Al Davis to draft a punter in round 1. He did. Ray Guy's reward for Mr. Davis' insane play: a punting average of over 42 yards per punt and an average hang time of over 5 seconds per punt. He became a field position weapon. Ray Guy forced the Superdome to raise it's dropped down screens from 90 feet (cough Jerry Land cough) to 200 feet. Some even regard him as a steal at 14th overall. A punter??? Yes, a punter. (and arguably the greatest punter to ever live).
He probably was the greatest punter of all time but I think you can put him getting drafted at #14 on Al Davis's desire to prove to everybody just how great a football mind he had. He believed he could find talent anywhere in the draft and he was probably right back then. Unfortunately old age has robbed him of his great football mind and left his team in a total mess.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 02:35 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,684
Reputation: 1846834
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ronnie Lott has to be a redefining safety. It was truly unprecidented to have a Rookie of the Year, 4-time Pro Bowl, All-Pro selection at CB switch to Safety and continue to be voted All-Pro at his position.

1981 - CB - Defensive Rookie of the Year - Pro Bowl - All-Pro
1982 - CB - Pro Bowl
1983 - CB - Pro Bowl
1984 - CB - Pro Bowl

1986 - S - Pro Bowl - All-Pro
1987 - S - Pro Bowl - All-Pro
1988 - S - Pro Bowl
1989 - S - Pro Bowl - All Pro
1990 - S - Pro Bowl - All-Pro
1991 - S - Pro Bowl - All-Pro
__________________

Last edited by phlysac : 12-09-2009 at 02:39 PM.
phlysac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: God blessed Texas
Posts: 21,781
Reputation: 4562158
MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Bob ************* Hayes.
__________________
MetSox17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 02:50 PM    (permalink
RealityCheck
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The land of three rings and a half
Posts: 5,617
Reputation: 28718
RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RealityCheck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by singe_101 View Post
Vrabel :D
As a LB/TE hybrid?
RealityCheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 02:55 PM    (permalink
Bengalsrocket
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,424
Reputation: 307159
Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bengalsrocket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ronnie Lott is definitely the best safety to ever play the game, but I don't know in what he changed the game. His toughness was definitely exceptional, but not unprecedented. And while he did have a crazy amount of interceptions, Ken Houston was just as much of a ball hawk as Lott, and his career started 24 years before Lott's.

In fact, Houston was a crazy defensive back when he had the ball in his hands too. Similar to how people view Rod Woodson, Ed Reed or Deion Sanders with the ball in their hands, Houston was also was pretty good himself.

I'd say Houston changed the safety position before Lott did, but that might be going back to far (it's before my time as well).
Bengalsrocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:01 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Tom Haverford
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,388
Reputation: 4397441
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

yeah its really tough to say.

i think coordinators changed the game more than players.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:03 PM    (permalink
Ness
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 21,419
Reputation: 2315363
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Bob Hayes.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:54 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,131
Reputation: 3286551
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
Ronnie Lott is definitely the best safety to ever play the game, but I don't know in what he changed the game. His toughness was definitely exceptional, but not unprecedented. And while he did have a crazy amount of interceptions, Ken Houston was just as much of a ball hawk as Lott, and his career started 24 years before Lott's.

In fact, Houston was a crazy defensive back when he had the ball in his hands too. Similar to how people view Rod Woodson, Ed Reed or Deion Sanders with the ball in their hands, Houston was also was pretty good himself.

I'd say Houston changed the safety position before Lott did, but that might be going back to far (it's before my time as well).
Ken Houston would have revolutionized the position at that time more than Lott. Paul Krausse with his 81 career ints would have a say too.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:59 PM    (permalink
fenikz
Pillow Hat Pal
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ain't know one ***** with tiny hippo. ain't no one
Posts: 29,155
Reputation: 4401533
fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

__________________

fenikz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:39 PM    (permalink
umphrey
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,619
Reputation: 49207
umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Randy Moss is the reason everyone wants a 6'4"+ receiver who runs a 4.3.

Peyton Manning brought pre-snap audibles to an entire new level.

Tom Brady made "intangibles" about 6 times more important.

Devin Hester, although not doing as well now, made kick returner a much more important position. It went from kicker value to more like a 23rd starter.

Steve Hutchinson showed teams what good guard play could do for a team.

Ed Reed brought ball hawking, free lancing safety to an entire new level (for better and worse).

Dwight Freeney created a new prototype for speed rushing defensive ends.

Antonio Gates made a lot of teams look to the basketball courts for undiscovered gems or upgrade prospects based on a basketball past at the TE position.

These are all current gen players because I've only been watching football for so long. Also there may have been others to do these things first. If so I'd be curious to know.
__________________

Thanks to BK for the sig

Last edited by umphrey : 12-09-2009 at 04:52 PM.
umphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:41 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
Matt Forte = Baby Marcus Allen
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oktoberfestland
Posts: 19,455
Reputation: 680057
Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Randy Moss is the reason everyone wants a 6'4"+ receiver who runs a 4.3.

Peyton Manning brought pre-snap audibles to an entire new level.

Tom Brady made "intangibles" about 6 times more important.
you really think 6'4'' receivers who run 4.3 were, at any time, not wanted?
__________________

Gay Ork Wang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
the decider13
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,172
Reputation: 39788
the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the decider13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Randy Moss is the reason everyone wants a 6'4"+ receiver who runs a 4.3.
Peyton Manning brought pre-snap audibles to an entire new level.

Tom Brady made "intangibles" about 6 times more important.
You mean there was a time when people didn't want a tall, freakishly fast receiver? Interesting.
__________________

Sig by the sigmaster BoneKrusher. Each one is a masterpiece
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaLLiN72 View Post
i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Job View Post
NFLDC would be jizzing itself non-stop.
the decider13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:45 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,410
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
fran tarkenton.
I'd vote for Tarkenton as well.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:45 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
Matt Forte = Baby Marcus Allen
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oktoberfestland
Posts: 19,455
Reputation: 680057
Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the decider13 View Post
You mean there was a time when people didn't want a tall, freakishly fast receiver? Interesting.
i was faster!


I vote Bob Hayes
__________________

Gay Ork Wang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If you look at the NFL prior to 2004 what you will find is Tight Ends were not used as receivers: there were a few way back in the day, Kellen Winslow Sr., Sharpe, but it is only recently that the position has become pass first. I would credit the emergence of Tony Gonzalez as the primary reason the position has changed the way it has. Now every TE needs to have some history in basketball, NFL scouts are now in the gyms looking for the next Antonio Gates, even though they find a few busts like Jai Lewis. (points for whoever remembers him)


On a side note, can announcers please stop talking about what Tony Gonzalez did on the B-Ball court more than a decade ago? Is it still a relevant piece of information? Is there anyone who doesn't know that Tony and Antonio placed basketball once upon a time?
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
Brent
TomTom Out
Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,011
Reputation: 4829675
Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i dunno, if buddy ryan doesn't have the personnel, the 46 is a bizarre footnote in history. further, if say, ken anderson or joe montana weren't pretty solid passers, or dan fouts couldn't chuck the ball around, does anyone now care who bill walsh or don coryell were?

(clearly the reverse is true, if montana spent his career running the play action stuff that was typical at the time, does anyone know his name?)
What made Walsh great was he wouldn't try to make players fit his system, he had a system that he wanted run a certain way and scouted to that system. He got Craig so he had a passing threat out of the backfield, Montana because he was accurate and had a high "Football IQ" (I hate using that term), despite not having a cannon arm.

The WCO was all about short throws that would pick up 4-5 yards but you take those high percentage plays and next thing you know, you've throw 8 passes and moved 60 yards. What Green Bay is doing now, is a fine example of what Walsh was doing, but they are a bit more pass-heavy, obviously a result of rule changes which have made passing easier.

I think someone said this already, but the offense was all about timing, to where you could run plays in the dark. Hell, Walsh scouted defense as well as he could offense. The guy just knew football players.
__________________

Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011
Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 04:51 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
Matt Forte = Baby Marcus Allen
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oktoberfestland
Posts: 19,455
Reputation: 680057
Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Gay Ork Wang is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
If you look at the NFL prior to 2004 what you will find is Tight Ends were not used as receivers: there were a few way back in the day, Kellen Winslow Sr., Sharpe, but it is only recently that the position has become pass first. I would credit the emergence of Tony Gonzalez as the primary reason the position has changed the way it has. Now every TE needs to have some history in basketball, NFL scouts are now in the gyms looking for the next Antonio Gates, even though they find a few busts like Jai Lewis. (points for whoever remembers him)


On a side note, can announcers please stop talking about what Tony Gonzalez did on the B-Ball court more than a decade ago? Is it still a relevant piece of information? Is there anyone who doesn't know that Tony and Antonio placed basketball once upon a time?
they played basketball?
__________________

Gay Ork Wang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 05:04 PM    (permalink
umphrey
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,619
Reputation: 49207
umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the decider13 View Post
You mean there was a time when people didn't want a tall, freakishly fast receiver? Interesting.
Haha, I knew this was coming. What I meant was that it made lots of teams feel like they need a 6'3" 4.4 minimum receiver on their team and it got a lot of receivers drafted rounds earlier than they would have been otherwise. He made measurables a prerequisite to some teams looking at first round WRs and made a lot of people think WRs without those tools could never be a #1.

Here's another one: Ryan Leaf and Tony Mandarich made the term "can't miss prospect" into an oxymoron.

I didn't know Gonzalez had a basketball history. He'd replace Gates in my other post. I almost put him in anyway because throughout most of his career he has been on another planet than his competition.
__________________

Thanks to BK for the sig

Last edited by umphrey : 12-09-2009 at 05:07 PM.
umphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.