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Old 12-14-2009, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Unbelievable. Win the turnover battle, gain more rushing yards and they still lost the game handily (last TD doesn't count).

I'm really not a fan of the 3-4 defense. It just hasn't been great for us, which was the goal when Wade was brought in. It's been average to decent at times but never truly dominant. If Wade is out, hopefully the 3-4 defense leaves with him. Ware, Ratliff, Spears and Spencer all could still be effective in a 4-3. The only big change would be the linebackers and I think that would a good change because I miss the days when we had linebackers who could actually run and cover.

Plus, how many 3-4 disciples are out there to take over as Defensive coordinator if Wade leaves?


What has the 4-3 defense for us? It's not like we changed from a sucessful D to take a chance. Also why is the 3-4 gone if Wade is? You know he's not the only guy to run a 3-4 D right? How would you even know if Ware & Spencer would be fine in a 4-3 anyway, it's one thing to assume it would be ok but nobody knows that, Spencer was drafted specifically for the 3-4 scheme.


There are just as many guys out there to pick up and run a 3-4 as there are a 4-3, Capers was one last year who didn't even have a job until late this year. We don't even know who will all be hired or fired at this point.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Well what has the 3-4 done for us? This team had its best year on defense this decade in 2003 playing a 4-3 with less talent on paper too. Playing the 3-4, we still can't stop the run when it matters and our linebackers are a mismatch in coverage because we can't get to the passer enough.

Ware, Spencer, Spears...hell most defensive linemen in the NFL played a 4-3 in college. It's when they get drafted and have to make that adjustment to the 3-4 is when you wonder if they can do it successfully.

Another problem with the 3-4 is that they have been doing it wrong. You need a massive nose tackle to anchor the middle. Jamal Williams, Casey Hampton, Wilfork, Kris Jenkins, etc. Ratliff is great but he's undersized for that position.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:21 AM    (permalink
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I have some crazy thoughts from the game.

Wow...talk about the difference Ware makes to this team. Butler clearly isn't a 3 down player yet...they ran at him the whole 4th quarter.

Like MOTH always says Spears isn't a bad player...but he hangs his teammates out to dry. This is why I hate spears. He always get ran on in the goalline formations and is always on his belly or 5 yards deep in the endzone. I'd also like to point out that Ratliff is also abused more often than not in short yardage situations. Back to Back weeks I've seen him get turned and pushed.

Newman is nothing more than a nickel/specialty cover man anymore. This should be his position after this year. He doesn't have the ability to stick with people anymore and he is over compensating for something because he is usually opening to early or too late either sitting on a curl or opening to soon to go deep and getting burned underneath. This has been a recurring problem all year. Something has changed...probably age and he needs to stick to the inside now.

We have been let down year after year for the same reasons. Our ILBers can't get to the flat to cover backs and TE's. This isn't anything new to anyone here. But after looking at our coverage schemes today from a fans view I noticed a few things. We play zone to cover up our liabilities. We blitz James in the nickel and play a lot of man. But in base defenses we come out in a lot of cover 2 shell. By doing this Wade can hide teams taking advantage of us in the flats. But this is the question...when he does this he takes our corners away from watching the QB. They have to make sure noone pops out before they can adjust and go man. This is why I have a problem with Wades scheme. He runs a zone/man hybrid which is rpetty standard accross the NFL from a fans perspective....but just think about how many times we've watched a WR catch the ball just over newman and right before the safety. I can think of a handful of times this happened in this game alone.

Here is my point. Wade had coverage problems in SD but what I noticed was that teams would usually go strong side to the right to force donnie edwards to be opposite of Jammer...and then teams would force Jammer to stick and since he isn't your typical quick twitch corner he was picked on. Whereas when he mans up he is actually a pretty good corner imo.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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I'm not exactly sure why you'd be bashing our run defense today, they only gave up 73 yards on 30 carries. That's a cool, 2.3 yards per carry. We're like 8th in the league against the run, which isnt bad at all. We're not scoring enough points...our red zone deficiencies are killing us. Our defense only gives up 17.9 PPG, that's tops in the NFC. And they held the high scoring Chargers to only 20 points...Last weeks loss was on the defense, this week we just squandered a few too many opportunities on offense. That's just the way things go sometimes.

The first thing that needs to be addressed on that defense is the secondary, imo. You have Jenkins and a bunch of average guys. And yeah, I sure wish Jason Williams was ready to play because, watching Bradie, Brooking, and yes Bobby try to cover when they're actually being focused on, is pretty ugly. Our nickel defense sucks.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:49 AM    (permalink
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I'm not exactly sure why you'd be bashing our run defense today, they only gave up 73 yards on 30 carries. That's a cool, 2.3 yards per carry. We're like 8th in the league against the run, which isnt bad at all. We're not scoring enough points...our red zone deficiencies are killing us. Our defense only gives up 17.9 PPG, that's tops in the NFC. And they held the high scoring Chargers to only 20 points...Last weeks loss was on the defense, this week we just squandered a few too many opportunities on offense. That's just the way things go sometimes.

The first thing that needs to be addressed on that defense is the secondary, imo. You have Jenkins and a bunch of average guys. And yeah, I sure wish Jason Williams was ready to play because, watching Bradie, Brooking, and yes Bobby try to cover when they're actually being focused on, is pretty ugly. Our nickel defense sucks.
I was thinking more back to the fact of after Ware went down. Although we only gave up 2.9 yards per carry after Ware went down we left them in 3rd and managable and allowed them to carry the ball for over 50 yards on their final drive to eat up the clock. They also ran for 2 first downs on that drive...and checked to the flats on atleast 2 of their other first downs. Our inability to stop the run on that drive killed us.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:49 AM    (permalink
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Ugh. We're not even in good shape, up one game for the final playoff spot. The Giants have the tie breaker and a cup cake schedule...we have to play the god damn Saints this next week. sigh. Even if we end up winning two of the next three, we still may be on the outside looking in. With the Giants having to play Washington, Carolina, and a Vikings team that will more than likely be playing for nothing. Things look kind of bleak.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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I was thinking more back to the fact of after Ware went down. Although we only gave up 2.9 yards per carry after Ware went down we left them in 3rd and managable and allowed them to carry the ball for over 50 yards on their final drive to eat up the clock. They also ran for 2 first downs on that drive...and checked to the flats on atleast 2 of their other first downs. Our inability to stop the run on that drive killed us.
Anyway you slice it...our defense wouldnt be that good without Ware. Plus they were looking pretty worn down by the end. Yeah it sucks...but our nickel pass defense failed a lot more than our run defense did.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:57 AM    (permalink
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Ugh. We're not even in good shape, up one game for the final playoff spot. The Giants have the tie breaker and a cup cake schedule...we have to play the god damn Saints this next week. sigh. Even if we end up winning two of the next three, we still may be on the outside looking in. With the Giants having to play Washington, Carolina, and a Vikings team that will more than likely be playing for nothing. Things look kind of bleak.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Philly drop one to either the 49ers or the Broncos. Neither game is a cake walk and with us in week 17 possibly looking ahead maybe.

I'm starting to think that is our best bet. If philly loses that game it will be a week 17 flashback to last year.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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Anyway you slice it...our defense wouldnt be that good without Ware. Plus they were looking pretty worn down by the end. Yeah it sucks...but our nickel pass defense failed a lot more than our run defense did.
Our nickel defense has been terrible all year. This is why I wanted a guy like Boley over Brooking in free agency.

We also run blitzed the **** out of the Chargers tho...that is what didn't make any sense....we would blitz the a or b gap with brooking and they'd still gain 3 yards. I couldn't believe it...we didn't control the LOS. But yes I agree stopping the run wasn't our biggest problem...however in crunch time we have been known to get soft and let teams run on us.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:07 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Philly drop one to either the 49ers or the Broncos. Neither game is a cake walk and with us in week 17 possibly looking ahead maybe.

I'm starting to think that is our best bet. If philly loses that game it will be a week 17 flashback to last year.
Yup, Philly is going to have to faulter.

Unless we plan on winning out. :/

This sucks, this really sucks. Best way to put it. haha. It sure does suck that we're going to have to listen to the media spew out all this December crap again this time next year. At least they're not blaming Romo for everything now but, this stuff is still annoying.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:11 AM    (permalink
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Romo should have thrown a pick or two today but anyway...just an FYI, his 7 INTS rank him tied for 2nd for the least amount of INTS for a starting QB. (Excluding Quinn, VY, and Bulger) Who would have guessed, that he would be there when the season began? That's a fantastic turn around. He actually has a chance to throw less INTS then every starting QB in the league this year. He's also cut his fumble numbers in half from a year ago. The guy has def. elevated his game.

Also consider the fact that he has done this as the most heavily blitzed Qb in the league. And as for December losses...you cant put either of these losses on him this year. Hopefully some of the Romo hate will subside after this year, some how I doubt it, though.
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Old 12-14-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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My game notes

1) TNew sucks and it is not physical, it is mental -- plays dumb.
2) Jenkins is the best CB in the NFC
3) JG is mindless. His game plans are borderline stupid. No play action, no bubble screen, no pulling guards, no posts, too few slants.
4) Leonard Davis for all his size can't run block effectively
5) Alan Ball is playing better and better. Some hope along with Free who did not give up a sack to Phillips.
6) Sensabaugh is a non-playmaker. Watkins at SS is a better option IMHO.
7) Tony is not making mistakes but he is taking no risks.
8) D is once again falling apart in big spots. A sure fire sign that Wade is in charge.
9) Can we please cut Folk?
10) Bradie too.
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we're playing so bad. Actually we've not played bad all year long. The only game in which we were (probably) outplayed was the GB one, or the first one against the Giants. We're losing close games. And that's because we are missing on too many opportunities.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we're playing so bad. Actually we've not played bad all year long. The only game in which we were (probably) outplayed was the GB one, or the first one against the Giants. We're losing close games. And that's because we are missing on too many opportunities.
You're right in that, this team doesn't quit, like teams of the past. This team doesn't get blown out by good teams, which implies that the talent level is fine. And let's not forget, SD is my front runner to represent the AFC in the SB. They are a very good team, so there's no crime in losing to them. If anything, it should show you that this team isn't that far off.

This team just doesn't do details. They showed the replay of NBC of the big play to Jackson down the sideline and both Harrison and Dungy said that when you have a 2 deep coverage, the CB has to get a jam on the WR. Newman let him run right past him. Poor technique. Time and time again, it's the little things that seperate the good teams from the mediocre.

I truly believe that if we had a solid coach here, 11-5 would be a strong possiblity every year.

I'm thinking Holmgren.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else think that Ware's injury was caused by the extra little shove McNeil gave him from behind as Ware closed in on Rivers? Because I do, and I'm pretty sure McNeil should be fined for it.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Ugh. We're not even in good shape, up one game for the final playoff spot. The Giants have the tie breaker and a cup cake schedule...we have to play the god damn Saints this next week. sigh. Even if we end up winning two of the next three, we still may be on the outside looking in. With the Giants having to play Washington, Carolina, and a Vikings team that will more than likely be playing for nothing. Things look kind of bleak.
You are corrected, we are in bad shape. Here is the question: If the Cowboys, Giants, and the Eagles are all finished 10-6 with 4-2 conference records, who you think going to win the division and who will go home, keep in mind that the Giants took two from the Cowboys, and the Eagles took two from Giants and Cowboys took from the Eagles. Go figure.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:07 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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You are corrected, we are in bad shape. Here is the question: If the Cowboys, Giants, and the Eagles are all finished 10-6 with 4-2 conference records, who you think going to win the division and who will go home, keep in mind that the Giants took two from the Cowboys, and the Eagles took two from Giants and Cowboys took from the Eagles. Go figure.
After that it goes down to how you did versus same opponents.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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After that it goes down to how you did versus same opponents.
I though is your opponents winning %. My point is even Cowboys are tied with the Giants, we could end up finish ahead.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nrcirc---
You are corrected, we are in bad shape. Here is the question: If the Cowboys, Giants, and the Eagles are all finished 10-6 with 4-2 conference records, who you think going to win the division and who will go home, keep in mind that the Giants took two from the Cowboys, and the Eagles took two from Giants and Cowboys took from the Eagles. Go figure.

D: After that it goes down to how you did versus same opponents.
Call me ironic & crazy, but could this shape up the season ender vs Philly for that last WC Playoff slot?

Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory, v. 3.0:
And how about that playcalling for 4 downs from a 1st & goal inside the 2? We all know MBIII is a guaranteed TD for an inside handoff play <severe sarcasm>..... or 4 straight inside handoffs. If Jason Garrett did it, he's a moron & the most overrated OC east of Jimmy Raye.

Last edited by LizardState : 12-14-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Our nickel defense has been terrible all year. This is why I wanted a guy like Boley over Brooking in free agency.
I don't know about that, even knowing how great Boley is in coverage I wouldn't trade him for Brooking no way, and that's taking into consideration that Boley is years younger. I don't think Boley could be the every down player that Brooking has done so well for us, nor could he fill one of the very few roles of being an emotional leader that this team has.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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