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Old 12-11-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I hated him before he got drafted. I can't say I saw this coming (I didn't think he'd be this terrible), but I knew he was going to suck.

He's the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf. Its not even a question anymore. His actions this year have officially stamped that envelope.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
no because if i was jamarcus, id try to get as much money as possible. im not saying i dont see anything wrong from any other perspective, but as a really bad player myself, i wouldnt go out there, let them give me less money if i could have more. its not like he will ever gain that kind of money ever again.

i mean if i was someone with job security or something, yes lets restructure. not when im jamarcus russel and prolly never gonna get a chance to get that kind of money ever again
unfortunately i agree. This is the most money this guy is ever going to see. After his contract runs out or he's cut he goes on the Jeff George road tour to every team that has a QB Coach that wants a shot at coaching up this guy. He'll still make a million a year based on unrealized potential but never the kind of money he made in that original contract. Although, if he actually works at his craft by the time he's 29 maybe he'll start to be serviceable
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Soon Jamarcus is going to disappear, and be found in a few years tied up in Jon Gruden's basement.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
That is really the only part of the interview that seemed bad to me.

I mean the whole interview was clearly just Jamarcus awkwardly dodging the interviewers subtle question of he believes he is a bust or not, but I didn't read any of it thinking that he was dumb or answered poorly even, except that last line.
So...making excuse after excuse, and refusing to give the new starting QB even a little credit for the team's success...that doesn't strike you as a little weak? Wow.

Russell hasn't changed since he got to Oakland, other than to become a worse version of himself. He's a bum with no sense of personal accountability. He can't be cut loose soon enough.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
He's the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf. Its not even a question anymore. His actions this year have officially stamped that envelope.
QFT. I don't think he can reach Ryan Leaf's level without some kind of major legal infraction or at least 2 on camera incidents, but he's closer than Tim Couch, David Carr or Alex Smith ever got imo.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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QFT. I don't think he can reach Ryan Leaf's level without some kind of major legal infraction or at least 2 on camera incidents, but he's closer than Tim Couch, David Carr or Alex Smith ever got imo.
Every player just mentioned was a #1 overall pick except Ryan, and none of them did anything. Absolute zero. Just saying.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Every player just mentioned was a #1 overall pick except Ryan, and none of them did anything. Absolute zero. Just saying.
That's the point. None of them ever did anything. They didn't try to get the franchise player arrested. They didn't read apologies to a national audience off of a cue card in his hand. They didn't snap at fans or reporters. At least not on camera.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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So...making excuse after excuse, and refusing to give the new starting QB even a little credit for the team's success...that doesn't strike you as a little weak? Wow.

Russell hasn't changed since he got to Oakland, other than to become a worse version of himself. He's a bum with no sense of personal accountability. He can't be cut loose soon enough.
I'm just using empathy here. Put yourself in his shoes and then ask yourself, would you admit to being a failure in a public interview?

I'm not saying he is correct, or that he said the right things. I'm just saying I understand where he's coming from when he said all of that (except the final line where he said he was only thinking about himself).

As much as we would all like to think that would could stand in front of the lights and give an honest evaluation of ourselves, it's a lot harder when you actually have to do it, and I don't blame him for not stepping up at this point in his life.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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That's the point. None of them ever did anything. They didn't try to get the franchise player arrested. They didn't read apologies to a national audience off of a cue card in his hand. They didn't snap at fans or reporters. At least not on camera.
That's true, and don't get me wrong if I saw Ryan on the street I would shiv him and walk away whistling, but none of those things made him any worse on the field than the #1 busts. Ultimately each of their teams cut ties having gained de nada, same as Ryan. Except Ryan was a #2 overall. So the idea that he is a bigger bust doesn't quite compute for me.

Again, I would like to reemphasize that I still would like to stab him.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure someone else mentioned it, but if I were in his situation I wouldn't restructure my deal either, knowing that I won't be getting another contract and i'd be basically giving away money. He needs to get what he can while he can, because odds are its all he's getting. Too bad he's too damn stupid to know what to do with it while he has it and will be one of those broke athletes by his 30's.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure someone else mentioned it, but if I were in his situation I wouldn't restructure my deal either, knowing that I won't be getting another contract and i'd be basically giving away money. He needs to get what he can while he can, because odds are its all he's getting. Too bad he's too damn stupid to know what to do with it while he has it and will be one of those broke athletes by his 30's.
Except that restructuring his contract might keep him from being cut, which will almost certainly mean less money in the end.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Soon Jamarcus is going to disappear, and be found in a few years tied up in Jon Gruden's basement.
I would have said "eating a Golden Corral out of business"
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm just using empathy here. Put yourself in his shoes and then ask yourself, would you admit to being a failure in a public interview?

I'm not saying he is correct, or that he said the right things. I'm just saying I understand where he's coming from when he said all of that (except the final line where he said he was only thinking about himself).

As much as we would all like to think that would could stand in front of the lights and give an honest evaluation of ourselves, it's a lot harder when you actually have to do it, and I don't blame him for not stepping up at this point in his life.
I agree with what your saying, however he didn't take the correct route around the subject. There were a few different paths, and he chose the dark one that went downhill rather than take the high road and assume some of the blame.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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He's not as big a bust as Ryan Leaf, because he wasn't looked at as that great of a prospect.

Russell went first because he had a big arm, and the Raiders needed a QB, not because he was a Leaf/Manning level prospect.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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If nobody has a problem with what JR said or how he handled the situation you should take notice of how Alex Smith went at it:


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Smith was due to make nearly $10 million in the upcoming season under the deal that he signed in 2005. The 49ers now have Smith under contract for the next two years at a salary more commensurate with his four up-and-down years with the team, although the exact details of the deal weren't disclosed.


"I don't measure myself in my contract in terms of what I'm making," said Smith, who missed most of the past two seasons because of arm injuries. "Having gone through what I've gone through the last couple of years, and being on the sideline, I guess I've got a different perspective on this game. When it came time to restructure the contract, it wasn't anything to do with ego. I just wanted the chance to compete."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true



I understand the whole concept of he doesn't have to, and he'll never make that type of money again, but this says a whole lot about the type of character and player you are. He's a QB, it's a position where you shouldn't want to be all about yourself and as selfish as possible.



This speaks volumes to me about the type of player he is, and how he just doesn't get it. It doesn't sound like someone who is supposed to lead an entire team, again it's not like he's a WR or CB or RB who can act like this and still do his job, he's supposed to have a team rally around him. Comments like those just doesn't sound like he's got any chance to be a starter again.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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If he's cut, Oakland still has to pay the guaranteed part of his contract and then another team will pick him up to see what a solid organization with a good HC can make of him. Plenty of me first players become stars in the NFL or get picked up and change when they get on a winning team. See Dillion and Moss. In fact quite a few NFL teams will be anxious to find out if they can motivate him. Oakland couldn't motivate Moss and Cincy couldn't motivate Dillion but in NE they had no problem getting motivated playing for a winning organization under a great HC.
Sure, he'll take a pay cut with whichever team he signs with but if he surprises, he won't be low paid for too long.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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If he's cut, Oakland still has to pay the guaranteed part of his contract and then another team will pick him up to see what a solid organization with a good HC can make of him. Plenty of me first players become stars in the NFL or get picked up and change when they get on a winning team. See Dillion and Moss. In fact quite a few NFL teams will be anxious to find out if they can motivate him. Oakland couldn't motivate Moss and Cincy couldn't motivate Dillion but in NE they had no problem getting motivated playing for a winning organization under a great HC.
Sure, he'll take a pay cut with whichever team he signs with but if he surprises, he won't be low paid for too long.
I am honestly surprised the discussion has started up about Jamarcus' future in the nfl. I mean, this kid is bad. He's so, so bad.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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If he's cut, Oakland still has to pay the guaranteed part of his contract and then another team will pick him up to see what a solid organization with a good HC can make of him. Plenty of me first players become stars in the NFL or get picked up and change when they get on a winning team. See Dillion and Moss. In fact quite a few NFL teams will be anxious to find out if they can motivate him. Oakland couldn't motivate Moss and Cincy couldn't motivate Dillion but in NE they had no problem getting motivated playing for a winning organization under a great HC.
Sure, he'll take a pay cut with whichever team he signs with but if he surprises, he won't be low paid for too long.
Only difference is that Moss and Dillon had already been very successful in terms of production before they made it to winning teams. Very very successful.

Russell has been supplanted by Bruce Gradkowski. Slight difference.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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The best deal would be Oakland trading him to someone who needs a future QB. Minnesota and Carolina?
If I were a Minny fan, I'd rather Tavaris Jackson start than Russell.

In fact, I think Jackson is underrated, anyway.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:16 AM    (permalink
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Only difference is that Moss and Dillon had already been very successful in terms of production before they made it to winning teams. Very very successful.

Russell has been supplanted by Bruce Gradkowski. Slight difference.
Only Moss played for the dysfunctional organization called Oakland and the best he could do there is ride the bench. So is it the organization or is it Russell??? There will be probably 31 teams willing to take him on to find out. It is hard enough for a young QB to succeed in the NFL so don't tell me playing in the asylum of Al Davis with his 'yes sir' coaching staff couldn't had a very negative effect on Russell.

As for Dillion, he was called a Cancer in Cincy, a player nobody wanted, especially nobody in Cincy, yet as soon as he changed teams, nobody ever mentioned those traits again, he suddenly became motivated and turned into a real team player.
IMO, it is ridiculous to write off Russell coming from the Oakland mess. Now I wouldn't offer him a huge contract, it would probably be filled with bonus clauses for reaching certain goals with a million base for 1 year with an option year attached, but I would definitely make every effort to sign him, after all, 2 HC's that Al Davis deemed failures, Shanahan and Gruden went on to win numerous Super Bowls, whose to say that the change of scenery wouldn't have the same results with Russell.
I'm sure everybody on this site wrote off Vince Young and Alex Smith and they have moved on to be starters in this league. I remember Giant fans and many other football fans ridicule Eli after 3 years on the job.
Russell has immense physical potential, now that doesn't guarantee his mental approach won't keep him from reaching it, but wouldn't you like to see him on another franchise besides Oakland, to see how he reacts to the change, I certainly would.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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Only Moss played for the dysfunctional organization called Oakland and the best he could do there is ride the bench. So is it the organization or is it Russell??? There will be probably 31 teams willing to take him on to find out. It is hard enough for a young QB to succeed in the NFL so don't tell me playing in the asylum of Al Davis with his 'yes sir' coaching staff couldn't had a very negative effect on Russell.
Um, Moss never "rode the bench" in Oakland. He started 28 out of the 29 games he played in Oakland and put up over 1000 yards his first year there. Granted, he totally crapped out on the team in 2006, something that still gets me a bit frustrated, but he gave out well after the offense was already one of the worst to take the field in the last few decades of football.

As for Dillon, he was arguably one of the most consistent and dynamic runners in the NFL with the Bengals.

There is a world of difference between being a great player with a bad attitude on a bad team and being a bad player with a bad attitude on a bad team. Moss and Dillon were the former, Russell has done absolutely nothing to prove he's not the latter. In fact, Russell has done nothing to prove that he's even willing to pretend like he cares, much less put in the work necessary to become a starting quarterback in the NFL.

I'm not saying that he doesn't get signed somewhere else. I'm saying that I can't imagine he'll find success anywhere, and using great players like Dillon and Moss as some sort of example is disingenuous.
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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QFT. I don't think he can reach Ryan Leaf's level without some kind of major legal infraction or at least 2 on camera incidents, but he's closer than Tim Couch, David Carr or Alex Smith ever got imo.
Alex Smith is proving he's NOT a bust right now.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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While he isn't gonna make bank with another team, i am willing to bet my left nut some team takes him and that he is better than he is in Oakland.

Idc what people thoughts of him are, being stuck in Oakland is the worse possible thing for a QB. You have almost no chance to succeed. Grad...whatever his name is playing better than Russel and its because he knows the team sucks ass, so whatever he does is no big deal
I'm dumber for having read this.
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Old 12-12-2009, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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I'm dumber for having read this.
Rich Gannon sucked in Oakland, remember that loser? Wait...
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Um, Moss never "rode the bench" in Oakland. He started 28 out of the 29 games he played in Oakland and put up over 1000 yards his first year there. Granted, he totally crapped out on the team in 2006, something that still gets me a bit frustrated, but he gave out well after the offense was already one of the worst to take the field in the last few decades of football.

As for Dillon, he was arguably one of the most consistent and dynamic runners in the NFL with the Bengals.

There is a world of difference between being a great player with a bad attitude on a bad team and being a bad player with a bad attitude on a bad team. Moss and Dillon were the former, Russell has done absolutely nothing to prove he's not the latter. In fact, Russell has done nothing to prove that he's even willing to pretend like he cares, much less put in the work necessary to become a starting quarterback in the NFL.

I'm not saying that he doesn't get signed somewhere else. I'm saying that I can't imagine he'll find success anywhere, and using great players like Dillon and Moss as some sort of example is disingenuous.
I'm not saying he will find success either but a lot of teams will be lined up to find out if he can succeed in a better situation. Most people in football are at the point that they just shake their head when Oakland is mentioned, after all, Davis cannot hire a decent HC any longer after what he did to Shanahan and Gruden and maybe Kiffen as well. The young bright minds he once used to find, no longer will even interview for the HCing position, his drafts have taken on an eerie feeling. Al was once one of the great minds in pro football, his record speaks for itself, but he has grown old and proved he is incapable of relinquishing any authority leaving every decision to this old man.
He drafted a very young QB who is obviously a bit immature and stuck him in this mess with no real leadership to guide the kid. Davis told the HC to play him, I'm sure Cable would have liked to bring him along slowly but Al calls all the shots and he said play him come h-ll or high water. Russell is stuck in the middle between an owner who is likely out of touch with the current NFL, living on his past successes, refusing to step aside and let his authority pass to the younger generation, and a HC who only has his job because he obeys Davis's every command and likely resents having no say about his own team. Under the same conditions Kiffen tried something like a 73 yard FG just to piss the old man off.
This franchise is simply dead in the water barely afloat. Into this mess comes a rookie QB, maybe he has real talent, maybe he doesn't, but he has to perform in this traveling circus. All of a sudden, he performs badly, maybe its his fault maybe it is the organization's fault, but he is getting blamed for the whole mess. Tell me, is he likely to grow in these circumstances or is it more likely at his age, that he will be completely confused about the whole situation.
That raises the question, can any young QB succeed into this dysfunctional organization. The answer is I don't know but if I'm a NFL GM, I would sure like to find out for myself how he would do in a stable situation under a solid coaching staff and IMO, that is the opportunity he will get somewhere down the road. Then it is all up to him to put his career back on track or not.
All I know is this guy was a top 5 prospect in his draft year no matter what some people claim around here who have probably hated Ryan, Young and many of the top rookie QB's who were drafted. That means most GM's and scouts loved Russell's potential. I'm prepared to wait it out before I give my final judgment. You obviously have made yours and that is fine, we'll just have to wait to see how the situation plays itself out. I'm certainly not saying your wrong in your opinion just maybe a little hasty.
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