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Old 12-12-2009, 11:42 AM    (permalink
Job
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
Lewis is serious Coach ot Yr. material IMO.
True, but both of those two undefeated teams will have to lose at least one game for him to be even considered.
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Old 12-12-2009, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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YPG is a difficult statistic to look at. Trying to look at any statistic can be a difficult one for determining the Best Defense. If I was looking at Yards, though, I would look at Yards per Play rather than per Game. The Top 9 Ds according to Yards per Play are:-

1 - New York Jets - 4.5
2 - Green Bay Packers - 4.6
3 - Denver Broncos - 4.6
4 - Philadelphia Eagles - 4.7
5 - Pittsburgh Steelers - 4.9
6 - Cincinnati Bengals - 4.9
7 - Indianapolis Colts - 5
8 - Washington Redskins - 5.1
9 - Baltimore Ravens - 5.1

Not many surprises there.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
dude, the strawman is dead. stop beating it.

who, exactly, was arguing that a franchise qb isn't a key piece for ANY team in contention?



if anything, i'd look closer at this. defenses caught up with offenses for a few years. then the league decided that having indy and new england score 80 points a game was better for the game than having teams like the ravens shut everyone they played out. at some point, defenses will react and someone will come up with some new way to shut down the top offenses. the nfl will react, etc.
I quite agree that defenses will react and slowly catch up to offenses and possibly reach a point where they surpass offenses. The NFL has always been quite cyclic.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
They got older & slower, team youth & team speed are major factors that the Ravens seem to have overlooked recently. It happens to the best of them.



And that's without sackmaster Antwan Odom who's on IR after leading the league with 5 sacks. Quite a turnaround & accomplishment for a team who's coach was on the hotseat in September, played in the same division as the #1-ranked in the preseason power rankings team, the Steelers whom they've swept, & who had it's top draft pick injured & got no help from him. Lewis is serious Coach ot Yr. material IMO.
Did Odom even sack anybody not named Aaron Rodgers...?
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
True, but both of those two undefeated teams will have to lose at least one game for him to be even considered.
Sad but true, Job. I think undefeated teams in the NFL irritate more people than make their fans deliriously happy (the same ones who scream Dynasty! if their team wins > one SB), undefeated teams destroy those parity arguments in the NFL that the drafting order of Worst Drafts 1st is supposed to sustain.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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They got older & slower, team youth & team speed are major factors that the Ravens seem to have overlooked recently. It happens to the best of them.
Not sure where you got "slower" from. The guys that have been replaced (starters) from last years defense are:

Rolle (replaced with Foxworth)
Scott (replaced with Gooden/Ellerbe/McClain)
Leonhard (replaced with Landry)
Bannan (he started due to Gregg's injury, and now Gregg is back)

If anything I would say we've gotten faster. Landry and Leonhard might be a lateral move in terms of speed, but the other three guys we're definitely slower than who they were replaced with. We also only have 3 guys over the age of 30 on defense who start (Lewis, Reed, and Gregg). It's not like we're an old team.

I hate making excuses for players (and ours have had more than their fair share of terrible plays this year), but it's looking like a lot of our defensive problems are coming from the scheme that is being used. We are in no way a 4-3 base team, yet Mattison insists on trying to rush four on most downs. Anybody that has seen us pla can tell you our pass-rush is absolutely terrible. This leads to coverage problems, etc.

FIRE GREG MATTISON!
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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RE: Ravens defense:

Quote:
Not sure where you got "slower" from.
From the same sports reporters who said the Ravens defense was showing its age every yr for the last, oh, 2-3 seasons. Most players slow down as they get older, that's generally true (sarcasm/facepalm), especially on defense where players have to make lightning-sharp cuts in coverage while running backwards.

I admit I havent seen the Ravens much this yr, but Johnson, Suggs, & Ray Lewis are still there aren't they? And Fabian Washington is as old as Asomugha with whom he played in Oakland. I do know about Jarret Johnson however, b/c I follow former Alabama players in the NFL, he's changed positions to an OLB & he is, per last weekend's highlight films, tearing it up bigtime at his new position, he was a DT in college & played DE for awhile in B-more, so IDK about your criticizing their personnel as unfit for their defensive scheme. Maybe b/c Suggs' sack total has diminished since his awesome rookie yr, well yeah, lol, he got older & slower.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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The Ravens' problem is no more Rex Ryan.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
RE: Ravens defense:
And Fabian Washington is as old as Asomugha with whom he played in Oakland.
Fabian Washington is probably the fastest player on that team. Might not be the best person to bring up when talking about a team "slowing" down. I agree with CoordinatorO the problem seems to be transitioning to Mattison and his scheme. The Ravens have been constantly losing players since the super bowl year so I think they are used to that, and Ozzie Newsome usually does a great job of reloading talent.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
The Ravens' problem is no more Rex Ryan.
maybe true. And the Steelers missed Polamalu in major ways, not the same defense without him.

In the same division isn't it mind boggling to think the Bengals are the best (stats wise) defense in the NFL?
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Ill throw in the saints,
1st in interceptions
1st in defensive TD's

for the rest they still arent that good

/notserious
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Bengals, Broncos, and Jets are three of the top 5. Not sure who the other 2 are right off the top of my head though.

Quote:
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The Ravens' problem is no more Rex Ryan.
LMAO. The defense was elite before Sexy Rexy. Their problem is they are either old or untalented. The exceptions get targetted.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Since the start of the Dallas game, the Packers D has been flat out dominant and Woodson has been playing like the clear DPOY. Looking at the entire season I don't know who is the best, but GB has to be at least top 3. At this moment I'd take Green Bay over anybody though.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Bengals, Broncos, and Jets are three of the top 5. Not sure who the other 2 are right off the top of my head though.


LMAO. The defense was elite before Sexy Rexy. Their problem is they are either old or untalented. The exceptions get targetted.
and sued for 70 million dollar
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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on a good day i think the cardinals are one of the best defenses in the nfl
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Bengals, Broncos, and Jets are three of the top 5. Not sure who the other 2 are right off the top of my head though.


LMAO. The defense was elite before Sexy Rexy. Their problem is they are either old or untalented. The exceptions get targetted.
This isnt true at all. Yes, the defense has aged, but alot of the players who were part of the old, dominant Ravens D are still playing at an extremely high level. Ray Lewis is playing as well as any Mike in the league, and Ed Reed has been exceptional when healthy. Just look at the latter part of last season.

Its the change in defensive coordinators that has caused a decline in the Ravens defense. Before Ryan, we had Mike Nolan, who ran a very similar scheme to Ryan. The 3-4 heavy blitz packages that we saw from those two are in stark contrast to the much more tame 4-3 look we are presenting these days. And quite frankly, our corners arent good enough to stick with top tier receivers when our front 4 cant get pressure.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Yes the Ravens D got a little older, but the issue is not one single player in our front freaking 7 is suited 4 this 43 bend dont break bull crap. They can get by off talent alone but if we had Rexys style D you could make a case the D would have been better then last year(its all speculation but w/ the addition of gregg, Johnson improving and our corner backs improving as well)
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I woulda said Cincy if they held down the Vikings. But I got to go with my Jets.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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dont see how it can be anybody but the jets. 1st in yards and points allowed.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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dont see how it can be anybody but the jets. 1st in yards and points allowed.
Green Bay is #2 in YPG.
#3 in passing YPG.
#2 in rushing YPG.
29 Sacks.
3 Def TD.
23 Int.

New York is #1 in YPG.
#1 in passing YPG.
#11 in rushing YPG.
27 Sacks.
1 Def TD.
15 Int.

I can see how someone can go with anybody but the Jets.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay is #2 in YPG.
#3 in passing YPG.
#2 in rushing YPG.
29 Sacks.
3 Def TD.
23 Int.

New York is #1 in YPG.
#1 in passing YPG.
#11 in rushing YPG.
27 Sacks.
1 Def TD.
15 Int.

I can see how someone can go with anybody but the Jets.
Valid point, the Packers are also 9th in scoring though which you left out.

The Jets defense has only allowed 16 touchdowns this year, next best is 19, and the Packers have allowed 28. Special teams and offense have accounted for 7 of the touchdowns the Jets have allowed this year, almost 1/3. The Packers have also allowed only 9 field goals this season, a sign that when teams get in close they tend to buckle and allow the TD. The Jets have allowed 17, more than teams have scored touchdowns against them.

I can see where you are coming from, but you really can't deny that the Jets are getting it done. First in total yards and PPG, and less of those points are because of the defense than the Packers. It's always going to be up for discussion because there are so many variables, but statistically the Jets have been tremendous, and that's without Jenkins for a few weeks now.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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Valid point, the Packers are also 9th in scoring though which you left out.

The Jets defense has only allowed 16 touchdowns this year, next best is 19, and the Packers have allowed 28. Special teams and offense have accounted for 7 of the touchdowns the Jets have allowed this year, almost 1/3. The Packers have also allowed only 9 field goals this season, a sign that when teams get in close they tend to buckle and allow the TD. The Jets have allowed 17, more than teams have scored touchdowns against them.

I can see where you are coming from, but you really can't deny that the Jets are getting it done. First in total yards and PPG, and less of those points are because of the defense than the Packers. It's always going to be up for discussion because there are so many variables, but statistically the Jets have been tremendous, and that's without Jenkins for a few weeks now.

And I don't think it's a stretch to say he was their most important defender this year either. They would be at least twice as good with him in the middle.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Valid point, the Packers are also 9th in scoring though which you left out.
That true. But special teams has really hurt the Packer defense in that department. Not that it hasn't for other teams.



What does it say about Dom Capers that he has a team in their first year of a 3-4 ebeing considered one of the best in the league? The man is a great. Then again, he does have Charles Woodson.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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That true. But special teams has really hurt the Packer defense in that department. Not that it hasn't for other teams.



What does it say about Dom Capers that he has a team in their first year of a 3-4 ebeing considered one of the best in the league? The man is a great. Then again, he does have Charles Woodson.
1st year with guys who've never played in the 3-4 before. Not too mention that Raji hasn't even really played alot and Matthews didn't start til week 4. I couldn't be happier with the progress of the defense, reguardless of having the 'top defense' ranking or not.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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And I don't think it's a stretch to say he was their most important defender this year either. They would be at least twice as good with him in the middle.
I think Revis has been. Just the ability to know that you can blitz and go nuts without worrying about coverage issues...I would have said Jenks before he went down but they've been so good without him I think it would hurt to lose Revis more. Your point is well taken though, because I thought taking away Jenks was going to kill this defense when he got hurt and he is an incredibly important player. But the way they've played without him, I think it may be Revis.

Titletown, are you referring to field position struggles? I could have looked at the wrong stats if they have given up lots of return TD's, but it looked like they had only given up one non-defensive TD and like 20 passing TD's. Absolutely a great season for a team in transition though. The Jets are doing well transitioning also, though obviously the schemes are closer than what the Pack are doing. They're in nice shape for the future.
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