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View Poll Results: Which QB would you prefer?
Ben Roethlisberger 16 11.59%
Aaron Rodgers 50 36.23%
Philip Rivers 72 52.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-17-2009, 12:14 AM    (permalink
vikes_28
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Rodgers by a long shot.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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I'm not going to talk about the Eli, Rivers thing because I've kinda slightly let it go, but I still hate him just quietly hating him..but anyways the homer in me must pick Rivers.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:02 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan. Oh wait...

I would have to go with consistent Mr. Rivers at #1. He has a career QB rating of 95.3, which places him at #2 in the all-time list of QBs who have attempted at least 1500 passes. Since he took over the starting job in 2006, the Chargers have finished with the following wins: 14, 11, 8, and 10 (out of 13). Philip Rivers and the Chargers are 16-0 in December since Rivers took over, and they have made the playoffs and won the division crown ever since then. Even the playoffs themselves haven't been terribly disappointing, as they have been able to knock down some good teams.

06: Lost to New England after a bye.
07: Beat Tennessee, Indy, Lost to New England in AFCCG
08: Beat Indy, lost to Pittsburgh in divisional (?) round.
09: ???

Rivers has it all except the Superbowl ring, but is only in his 4th season starting. He just turned 28 years old and has another 6-7 years at least to get over the SB hump. Comparing him to Rodgers and Roethlisberger, Rodgers doesn't even have a playoff appearance (though better career statistics) and Roethlisberger had championship caliber defenses during his SB runs.

Looking at the overall picture, are these Hall of Fame bound credentials or what?
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:29 AM    (permalink
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I think a lot of you guys are short changing Ben.

Ben has made iconic plays in his career that neither Rivers or Rodgers make. Of course, Rodgers and Rivers do certain things better than him as well.

Eh, its complicated. How can you compare qbs without factoring in the talent around them, the system they play in, and where they play? its almost impossible.

thats why for the most part, i stay away from qb comparisons. im all for evaluating players and discussing what they do great and what they don't do great, but its pretty hard making a list when so much of what we think we know, we don't know at all.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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I think a lot of you guys are short changing Ben.

Ben has made iconic plays in his career that neither Rivers or Rodgers make. Of course, Rodgers and Rivers do certain things better than him as well.

Eh, its complicated. How can you compare qbs without factoring in the talent around them, the system they play in, and where they play? its almost impossible.

thats why for the most part, i stay away from qb comparisons. im all for evaluating players and discussing what they do great and what they don't do great, but its pretty hard making a list when so much of what we think we know, we don't know at all.

You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.
You compare college prospects every season.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.
I fully understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but if we all subscribe to that theory we might as well shut down the forums.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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You compare college prospects every season.
Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.
When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.
To be fair, a big part of that discussion is if the prospect will fit with the team or not. Big Ben would suck on the Packers but I'd grade him very close to Rodgers.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.
Oh ok, I was going to say.. I barely ever post in the draft section.

And that's even worse in the college level. The systems there are vast..

Option
Spread option
Air Raid
Run and Shoot
Pro
triple option
West Coast

You have tons of systems, with tons of different players, playing any school in the country. So the parity among programs are a lot more different than in the NFL.

That's why scouts are finding it hard to scout prospects now. The trend is more towards the spread offense and scouts really have to focus on individual attributes and figure out how it translates to the NFL more than ever. I read a great article on this just couple weeks ago.

People compare college prospects but I think they are doing it in regards to their skill set not their production. You can't compare Tebow's stats to a guy in the Run and Shoot or Air Raid system. Yeah both are QBs, but both are in vastly different systems. So draftniks compare skill sets. That can be done, but that's really about it.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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I fully understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but if we all subscribe to that theory we might as well shut down the forums.
Very true, but you still talk about football in it's sense of what it's about to be talked about. On different formations, runs, and concepts being ran on both sides of the ball.

That's why i post on football forums. I never post in the threads that say, list you're best QBs, RBs, WRs in the league. I know that stuff is hard to prove, and it's no point really.

Now, if someone wants to talk about how to beat a C2 and what routes should be run, then that to me, personally is more appealing. But to each his own i guess. I am just saying comparing different QBs with all these different variables is hard to do.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Banning, I think with a thread like this few are actually comparing these guys based on their production. I know I made my decision based entirely on watching them play and the things I saw that they did well, not how productive they've been doing those things.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.
Actually im not much of a draftnik. I don't watch much college football, so I can't really say that I'm a draftnik. I consider myself a good evaluator of talent, but a lot of times I don't know what to make of prospects bc I just don't watch enough college football to get a good gauge on a lot of these guys.

I can hold a convo, and if I see a lot of tape on a certain guy, you'll know it bc i can break em down fairly well when i do, but a lot if not most of these guys, I just don't see em play so im not really a reliable opinion on a lot of these college players.

At the NFL level though, I know these guys pretty well.
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Actually im not much of a draftnik. I don't watch much college football, so I can't really say that I'm a draftnik. I consider myself a good evaluator of talent, but a lot of times I don't know what to make of prospects bc I just don't watch enough college football to get a good gauge on a lot of these guys.

I can hold a convo, and if I see a lot of tape on a certain guy, you'll know it bc i can break em down fairly well when i do, but a lot if not most of these guys, I just don't see em play so im not really a reliable opinion on a lot of these college players.

At the NFL level though, I know these guys pretty well.

Back in my hey-day, in 2006 and 2007 I watched a lot of college football and had a pretty good read on the players. Last year and this year I honestly have hardly watched any games. I don't know all that much about any of the prospects beyond Big-12 games.
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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An interesting poll thus far. I had these three pretty clearly ranked, Rivers, then Rodgers, then Roethlisberger. I didn't expect that to be the consensus opinion. If anything I expected more votes for Roethlisberger; I would have debated against it, but I would have understood it.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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An interesting poll thus far. I had these three pretty clearly ranked, Rivers, then Rodgers, then Roethlisberger. I didn't expect that to be the consensus opinion. If anything I expected more votes for Roethlisberger; I would have debated against it, but I would have understood it.
Unfortunately for Big Ben, he will always be linked to his dominating Defense that got him his first SB and led him to the 2nd one. This year, the Defense is underperforming and we have the results.

Hes a very good QB with a lot of intangibles but not as talented as the other 2.

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Old 12-17-2009, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Did Ben have great defenses? Absolutely.

But who wins a SB without a good defense? No qb in NFL history won a SB all on his own, with no help.

Every qb needs a defense. Every qb needs players around him on offense. Nobody does it by themselves.


And let's not forget, for a good 3 years, the Chargers were widely considered to be the most talented team on paper in the league. And its not like Rivers has had a piss poor defense his whole career.

Its not like Ben was just eating popcorn while his team carried him last year. And Rivers wasn't separating the sea with his bare hands all by himself either.

Its not as black and white as we want it to be. Nothing against any of these great qbs, but you gotta respect a guy who's gone out there and accomplished what he has.

You don't win 2 SBs by accident or luck.

Im not saying Ben is the best. Regardless of where he ranks, he's an elite qb to me. So is Rivers.

Rodgers...let him make the playoffs before we anoint him.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:55 PM    (permalink
Xenos
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Originally Posted by Favre4ever View Post
Unfortunately for Big Ben, he will always be linked to his dominating Defense that got him his first SB and led him to the 2nd one. This year, the Defense is underperforming and we have the results.

Hes a very good QB with a lot of intangibles but not as talented as the other 2.
I wouldn't hold it against him at all. He's playing well this year despite a bad defense. It's the same situation that Rivers went through last year.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers...let him make the playoffs before we anoint him.
Baby Cheesus has been anointed from day 1 thank you very much.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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I rank them:
Rivers
Ben
Rodgers

Here's why: Rivers is just the best of the bunch IMO. Lately he hasn't had much of a defense, or a running game, but he still produces and he still wins games that matter. He's a leader. I can't point to a single thing he needs to improve upon. No weaknesses in his game at all. He's strong in the pocket, has a lightning quick release and is extremely smart and accurate. Roethlisberger is 2nd because he simply makes huge plays when his team needs him to. He is able to keep plays alive and find a receiver downfield. He has a big arm, he's accurate and nigh untacklable. But he does have some things he should work on. He takes a lot of hits, he holds on to the ball too long sometimes. Sometimes when he does it, he makes a play, sometimes he gets sacked. Still though, should probably stop doing it. Rivers and Roeth are probably my 2 most HATED QBs, obviously I hate the Chargers, and I don't exactly remember why, but I hate the Steelers, too. But I have both Rivers and Roethlisberger in my top 5 atm.
1-3. Manning, Brees, Brady, however you want them, I don't care.
4.Rivers
5. Ben Roethlisberger

Rodgers is great too, but he gets sacked too much for my liking, and he hasn't been doing great things for as long. He's a great young player though, I just don't think he's as great as Phil or Ben.
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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I voted Rivers, I tried to look at this based on skill only and not production.

For me it doesn't matter if you give all 3 QB's either a really good supporting cast or really terrible supporting cast, I think Rivers would make the most of it, in both scenarios.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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My favorite part about Ben's game winning throw, he staying in the pocket and made a beautiful pass. We've seen him scramble and wait for coverages to break alot, but its not to often Ben stands in the pocket and goes through his reads and makes the perfect throw.

Last night may have been the best game I've ever seen him play. Atleast he's gotten rid of the game manager label over the past two seasons.
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Old 12-21-2009, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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In a head to head matchup Ben sure looked better than Rodgers. Rodgers even had the benefit of playing against a terrible secondary. Ben was playing the leagues #1 defense. How many quarterbacks make that throw? Ben always makes the clutch throw.
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
Xenos
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In a head to head matchup Ben sure looked better than Rodgers. Rodgers even had the benefit of playing against a terrible secondary. Ben was playing the leagues #1 defense. How many quarterbacks make that throw? Ben always makes the clutch throw.
He did play against a depleted secondary as well with only Woodson as a great corner. Though he is better than Rodgers. I mean losing Al Harris shouldn't lead to 500 yards of passing given up. So props to Ben indeed.

And once again, Rivers survives the two interceptions he gave up. Still has not thrown more than that in a game. Now if patterns were to hold true this year, he would go four more games without throwing an interception before throwing one interception in one game and then two interceptions the following game.
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