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Old 01-11-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
wordofi
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Default Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer?

He's had two dominant runs with both the Rams and Cardinals. He's also played in three Super Bowls and won one.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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I was leaning against it during his Giants' reign. What he has done in Arizona, formally the NFL black hole, is remarkable and has him as a 100% lock. I didn't think he could do it either. The Hall of Fame, to me, is 'can you tell a story about the NFL and not mention ________' and Kurt Warner is integral to the story of the NFL between 1999 and 2009.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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Yes. And yes. Yes.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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I think he is pretty much 100% now.

Maybe not first ballot(will depend on the rest of the class) but I think he is at worst a 2nd ballot guy.

If he retires this year he could possibly be up against LT, Favre, TO, Bruce, Holt and Pace, just on the offensive side of the ball(I don't expect all of them to retire, but certainly a couple) and that would make for a hell of a class.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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I'd have said no before this season. Now I'm undecided. Gimme one more season like his last 3 and I'll shift over to the yes camp for sure.

The problem is his late start and that 5 year lull in the middle of his career.

If you look at the career stats, he has like one season's worth of productivity separating him from Rich Gannon.

So...borderline for me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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I'd have said no before this season. Now I'm undecided. Gimme one more season like his last 3 and I'll shift over to the yes camp for sure.

The problem is his late start and that 5 year lull in the middle of his career.

If you look at the career stats, he has like one season's worth of productivity separating him from Rich Gannon.

So...borderline for me.
Ring.

Playoffs.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Ring.

Playoffs.
Then Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino.

Does not compute.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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I'd give it to him. His story is what the NFL loves. He has played on one of the best offensive units, has impressive postseason stats, and has a ring.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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I'd give it to him. His story is what the NFL loves. He has played on one of the best offensive units, has impressive postseason stats, and has a ring.
Also... it is the Pro-Football HOF not the NFL HOF, therefore his achievements prior to entering and after college should receive some consideration and if he made it into the NFL based on them, I assume he must have done something in the other leagues.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Yes.

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Old 01-11-2010, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Without question. The man has more 300 yard games than anyone in history and his post season success is remarkable.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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For the millionth time yes, this thread pops up all the time.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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Then Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino.

Does not compute.
Rich Gannon = very good QB statistically, 1 AFC championship.

Kurt Warner = very good QB statistically, 3 NFC Championships, 1 Super Bowl Ring (His Charizard Pokemon card if you will).

I'm comparing Gannon's resume to Warner's. Not Marino's to Dilfer's.

In this comparison, the Super Bowl ring is a big difference. In the Marino-Dilfer comparison, the Super Bowl ring means nothing because Dilfer isn't on his level to begin with.

That compute OK?
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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Rich Gannon statistically =/= Kurt Warner, nice try though.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Does a Pope **** in his hat?

yes
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Rich Gannon = very good QB statistically, 1 AFC championship.

Kurt Warner = very good QB statistically, 3 NFC Championships, 1 Super Bowl Ring (His Charizard Pokemon card if you will).

I'm comparing Gannon's resume to Warner's. Not Marino's to Dilfer's.

In this comparison, the Super Bowl ring is a big difference. In the Marino-Dilfer comparison, the Super Bowl ring means nothing because Dilfer isn't on his level to begin with.

That compute OK?
The super bowl ring is not a personal stat.

WINS ARE NOT A QB STAT.

Crappy players can be on good teams and good players can be last place teams. Wins of any kind, playoff or otherwise, do not matter when doing an objective comparison of any two players.

Therefore, wins should not enter into the HOF argument. It's that kind of idiocy that puts undeserving bad players like Joe Namath in the HOF.

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Old 01-11-2010, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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Four years ago, it didn't look like he would be. Now, I think he's a lock.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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The super bowl ring is not a personal stat.

WINS ARE NOT A QB STAT.

Crappy players can be on good teams and good players can be last place teams. Wins of any kind, playoff or otherwise, do not matter when doing an objective comparison of any two players.

Therefore, wins should not enter into the HOF argument. It's that kind of idiocy that puts undeserving bad players like Joe Namath in the HOF.
If that is how you choose to evaluate quarterbacks in this sport, then that is fine. I take winning into account because of the nature of the quarterback position and I'm sure the voters will as well.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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He is a lock without question IMO.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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If that is how you choose to evaluate quarterbacks in this sport, then that is fine. I take winning into account because of the nature of the quarterback position and I'm sure the voters will as well.
Joe Namath.

That should be enough to sway anyone of sound mind.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Joe Namath.

That should be enough to sway anyone of sound mind.
You can keep arguing but postseason success always has been and always will be a huge part of how the NFL world views QBs. There are always going to be extreme examples on both ends like you say, as in Namath/Marino. But it works the other way too, is Aikman all that special without the rings? Montana is the GOAT in my book but he wouldn't be if he weren't invincible in the Super Bowl, etc. etc.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Postseason and wins are overrated, but they should be a factor. Ultimately it's a spectator sport, and fame and "goodness" (an ultimately subjective value in sports) are based off of the intensity that their performances bring to the game for fans. Doing things when things matter, well, matters.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Also... it is the Pro-Football HOF not the NFL HOF, therefore his achievements prior to entering and after college should receive some consideration and if he made it into the NFL based on them, I assume he must have done something in the other leagues.
Don't think the voters pay much or any attention to anything outside of a players nfl career. He got his break through the Arena Football league, played two seasons and his team went to the championship game in both.

Regardless he is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Based on when people are likely to retire his main competition at QB will be Farve then not much for a few year stretch.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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You can keep arguing but postseason success always has been and always will be a huge part of how the NFL world views QBs.
Baseball folks are finally starting to see that wins are not a legit pitcher stat. I expect that the NFL will stop being ******** and come to the light as well.

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There are always going to be extreme examples on both ends like you say, as in Namath/Marino. But it works the other way too, is Aikman all that special without the rings?
That's not working the other way. That's working the same dumb way. Troy Aikman is another undeserving member of the hall. Glad you brought him up. He was an average QB who was lucky to be carried into the Hall by a great team. In reality, Aikman was about the equal of Brad Johnson. In fact, the stats will tell you that Johnson was a tiny bit better.

Quote:
Montana is the GOAT in my book but he wouldn't be if he weren't invincible in the Super Bowl, etc. etc.
Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.


Playoffs are not indicative of individual skill. They are a small sample size in a football career, and should be treated as such.

Last edited by Monomach : 01-11-2010 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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I was mulling it over during last year's Super Bowl, but I think he is a lock now for sure.
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