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Old 01-11-2010, 08:06 PM    (permalink
descendency
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Not a first ballot Hall of Famer. Only real success story has been on loaded teams with controlled environments. The list of QBs better than Warner over the past few years is substantial.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't think there's much of a question at this point. Whether he's a first ballot guy or not really depends on his competition, but he's going in.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Not a first ballot Hall of Famer. Only real success story has been on loaded teams with controlled environments. The list of QBs better than Warner over the past few years is substantial.
Yeah, Matt Lineart could do the exact same thing Kurt Warner is doing now with this loaded offense...oh wait.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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From the grocery store to the Hall of Fame baby!
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.
I dont know why you think this, but it's ridiculous.

Joe Montana > Peyton Manning

This isnt even opinion.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Compared to:


or.....


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Old 01-13-2010, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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LOL!!

That is a ball's a@@, just nasty pic of Joe Montana!!!

Peyton has more in common with Dan Marino than Joe Montana, IMO.

Stat's are great, but you better have that bling if you wanna be in the conversation with a QB who's won FOUR Lombardis!
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
I dont know why you think this, but it's ridiculous.

Joe Montana > Peyton Manning

This isnt even opinion.
How quickly people forget the rules changes that have made passing so much easier in the current game.

Joe Montana is in my top 3 QBs of all time with Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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**** yeah

kiss the rings, *****
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if Peyton Manning would be on pace to break all these records if the NFL didn't call pass interference every time a defensive back breathed too hard on a receiver. The amount of rules favoring the passing game in today's game is ridiculous. I understand why the NFL has implemented them, but I disagree with most of them.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if Peyton Manning would be on pace to break all these records if the NFL didn't call pass interference every time a defensive back breathed too hard on a receiver. The amount of rules favoring the passing game in today's game is ridiculous. I understand why the NFL has implemented them, but I disagree with most of them.
imagine Jerry Rice's numbers if he had those rules in his favor
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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The real question is whether Marino or Manning is uglier. Discuss...
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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imagine Jerry Rice's numbers if he had those rules in his favor
Rice, I believe, was the perfect blend of talent and opportunity. I'd say it would be hard to argue that he could be so much greater than his already rather high numbers. That is because while the rules may be in his favor, it would be difficult to keep the team he was on together. Salary cap would do wonders to that roster. If the run D sucked he might not have been on the field as much. If they couldn't afford a great line, maybe a few key players get hurt. Lotsa if's i'd say. I like to keep sport generational play separate because of that reason, but it is very interesting to argue is it not? The possibilities are endless.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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How quickly people forget the rules changes that have made passing so much easier in the current game.

Joe Montana is in my top 3 QBs of all time with Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas
Passing has been made easier in many ways yes, but it has also been made very difficult too. The advent of blitzing schemes and athletic players, the adjustments by coaching staffs, it's really crazy to think about. Peyton is special because he meets the problems he has faced head on, and he has conquered them.

I will add that this was very much like qbs did earlier and that there is nothing wrong with thinking those 2 aren't perhaps the best two.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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imagine Jerry Rice's numbers if he had those rules in his favor
In the same vein, imagine Jerry Rice's numbers if he had entered the league 15 years after the advent of the west coast offense instead of at the very beginning, when no one had any idea how to defend it.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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In the same vein, imagine Jerry Rice's numbers if he had entered the league 15 years after the advent of the west coast offense instead of at the very beginning, when no one had any idea how to defend it.
People knew how to defend the WCO in the 80s, the problem was few teams had the personnel to do it consistently against a team that had a QB like Montana and WRs like Rice/Taylor.

Against a quick set, short, controlled passing team, you either blitz the hell out of them, or drop 6-7 DBs into coverage.

I love Peyton Manning, but he just isn't the same QB as a Montana in the playoffs.

Based on his abilities alone, the Colts should be heavily favored to make it to the SB. But I would suspect most football fans see the Colts as one of many possible contenders for the Lombardi, not the odds on favorite.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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People knew how to defend the WCO in the 80s, the problem was few teams had the personnel to do it consistently against a team that had a QB like Montana and WRs like Rice/Taylor.

Against a quick set, short, controlled passing team, you either blitz the hell out of them, or drop 6-7 DBs into coverage.
Except that both those solutions were pretty unsatisfactory so long as the team you were playing had a running game and a quarterback who had a quick release.

People mostly had no idea how to effectively maintain a defense against a WCO when Bill Walsh first started with San Francisco. Only once Dick LeBeau brought about the modern popularization of the zone blitz did a real solution to a pure WCO start to show.

Quote:
Based on his abilities alone, the Colts should be heavily favored to make it to the SB. But I would suspect most football fans see the Colts as one of many possible contenders for the Lombardi, not the odds on favorite.
Possibly because Indianapolis has the most injured players of any team in the playoffs right now by quite a bit.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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That and the onset of free agency has gotten rid of the super stacked teams of the 80's. Which makes what Brady and Manning has done even more exceptional.
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