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Old 10-17-2010, 03:46 AM    (permalink
ironman4579
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Originally Posted by aLARGEtopHat View Post
Worth looking at. Correlation causation there would be a lot to regress here. Not sure what you can really draw from this as it can be spun 50 ways.


Margin rank/ Turnovers/ Turnover Rank

Michigan
2010: 53rd | 8 est. 14 atm | 29th
2009: 115th | 28 | 99th
2008: 104th | 30 | 104th

WVU
2007: 9th | 21 | 34th
2006: 25th | 17 | 11th
2005: 7th | 17 | 14th
2004: 46th | 22 | 56th
2003: 4th | 20 | 31st

WVU usually had pretty highly rated defenses by the numbers and 2 or 3 top 15 scoring defenses if I recall correctly.

If anything I think Rodriguez offense puts players in a better position to not turn the ball over in comparison to a normal system, thus helping younger players. And fumbling is just a random thing from player to player. You cant tell me Carr was better coaching ball carrying since he had Mike Hart, when he also had Kevin Grady.

Michigan obviously could of beat Iowa this afternoon if they had limited mistakes, but they couldn't and they played right into Iowa's game plan. Iowa in the first half was playing great bend but dont break defense, while michigan put it self in long conversions from penalties that lead to drives ending and interceptions. I think Kirk knew he could hang and that over the game Michigan would put itself in a position to lose, and they did. Taking advantage of inexperience. I give more credit to Kirk than I put on RRod. Ezeh and Mouton have been through 3 defensive coordinators and still cant figure some simple things out, that cant all be on Rodriguez.
You don't think the fact that those guys have had 2 coordinators and 3 different systems in 3 years could be the problem? You don't think RR's loyalty to crappy position coaches that he brought with him (and completely undermined the first DC) could be the problem? You don't think after 3 seasons of massive turnovers and mistakes against Big 10 teams that some of that blame has to fall on Rodriguez? You don't think that perhaps Carr's guys knew how to coach ball security better, or even that they just recruited guys that had better ball security? Ok. Grady was a fumbling machine, but what other back or wide receiver had a huge problem? One guy does not a trend make. 3 seasons kind of does.

And I'm sorry, Inexperience is such a bogus excuse. Fine, I can give you that one in season 1 and even 2. But now? Your defensive line is a 5th year senior, a true junior and a redshirt junior. You LB's are two seniors and a true sophmore. Even the secondary isn't as bad as people like to make it out to be, with a senior, two redshirt sophmores, a redshirt freshman and a redshirt freshman/true freshman platoon. And don't give me the sophmore thing. How is a redshirt sophmore any different than a true junior? You've got 8 guys on this defense who have been on campus for at least 3 seasons.

I don't expect this defense to be a top 10 or even top 40 defense. But I do think that it's capable of not being one of the worst defenses in the country.

And again, one year of crap offensive play, mass turnovers, and mistakes in conference play is an anomoly. Two is worrying, but explainable. Three season of the same **** is a trend, and when the only constant over that time period is Rod and his cronies, the blame should and does fall on them.
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:08 AM    (permalink
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Michigan isn't a good team, at all. We neutralized Robinson, and had he played the entire game you may have scored a total of 13 points.

Things started to click when Forcier came in the game, in fact, it was the best thing you could have hoped for, for the simple reason that we didn't gameplan for him at all during the week. All of our time was spent preparing for Robinson and his attack.

Forcier might be the least likable guy in college football.

The offense is entirely gimmick and almost annoying to watch. I really find it hard to believe a highly intelligent human being like Sniper is satisfied with the style of ball Michigan plays currently. I wouldn't be.
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:20 AM    (permalink
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You don't think the fact that those guys have had 2 coordinators and 3 different systems in 3 years could be the problem? Yes, and the fact that most of them arent talented athletes.


You don't think RR's loyalty to crappy position coaches that he brought with him (and completely undermined the first DC) could be the problem? What position coaches are crap? LBs he got rid of. The only one I think you could say is CB's/Safeties, but I honestly don't know how anyone could make those guys a good group.

You don't think after 3 seasons of massive turnovers and mistakes against Big 10 teams that some of that blame has to fall on Rodriguez? Some. When he was doing dumb pootch **** stuff like Mack Brown did today, sure. I didn't see anything today outside of the FG, which was a pretty big error after it was blocked.

You don't think that perhaps Carr's guys knew how to coach ball security better, or even that they just recruited guys that had better ball security? Ok. Grady was a fumbling machine, but what other back or wide receiver had a huge problem? One guy does not a trend make. 3 seasons kind of does. Well Braylon Edwards had a drops problem, but I don't recall inparticular. If you take out dropped punts/kick offs from the last two years, which seem to be fixed btw, I don't see a fumbling problem in particular. Robinson is the most likely to fumble, so you can figure out what to do there...



And I'm sorry, Inexperience is such a bogus excuse. Fine, I can give you that one in season 1 and even 2. But now? Your defensive line is a 5th year senior, a true junior and a redshirt junior. You LB's are two seniors and a true sophmore. Even the secondary isn't as bad as people like to make it out to be, with a senior, two redshirt sophmores, a redshirt freshman and a redshirt freshman/true freshman platoon. And don't give me the sophmore thing. How is a redshirt sophmore any different than a true junior? You've got 8 guys on this defense who have been on campus for at least 3 seasons.

I don't really see a problem with the starting D-line. Roh is a good pass rusher, Martin is all-big 10, and Van bergn is capable. It is not like there is much depth there.

The secondary is talentless 3-stars, and I don't see how you could expect them to ever be good. The luck he has had with qualifications, departures, and overall not panning out of players has to be somewhat his fault, but come on... He has been extremely unlucky with secondary recruits.

I don't have much to say about the linebackers. They are what they are and would never improve in 30 years of playing. Mouton can't be patient and Ezeh can't be aggressive. Demens looks servicable today, but picking are still slim. Michigan lost 2/4 from 08 class before Rodriguez. 09 class was weak at just two 3-stars. Lack of talent.


Such a great sample size you have on your 3 years of massive turnovers by QBs. I mean you have what. Threet who has 11 Int's this year already. You have Forcier who thinks he is Favre. And you have a handful of plays from a freshman qb that was meant to run. Oh and then you have Denard's 4ints in the last 2 games. Which were a mixture of terrible passes and awful decisions.
Pat White never had a problem with Ints.

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Old 10-17-2010, 04:31 AM    (permalink
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Brewster was fired, but has decided to stay on for the rest of the season (the fact that he gets 200k for doing so probably didn't hurt).

Word on the street is that Joel Maturi (Athletic Director) will not be brought back when his contract expires on June 30th. Of course, that would still mean he gets to hire the coach that the new AD would inherit.

*facepalm*
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:28 AM    (permalink
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You don't think the fact that those guys have had 2 coordinators and 3 different systems in 3 years could be the problem? Yes, and the fact that most of them arent talented athletes.



Two 4 stars and Two 3 stars at LB. If you count Demens three 4 stars. There's talent there, it's not being used well. You can't use stars to show the secondary has no talent and then blow it off for LB's, which is what I was taling about



You don't think RR's loyalty to crappy position coaches that he brought with him (and completely undermined the first DC) could be the problem? What position coaches are crap? LBs he got rid of. The only one I think you could say is CB's/Safeties, but I honestly don't know how anyone could make those guys a good group.



You think the QB's coach is good? What have you seen in conference over the last 3 seasons to suggest that? Yes, the secondary as well. Special teams is atrocious. About the only good position coaches are the offensive and defensive line, and the WR's



You don't think after 3 seasons of massive turnovers and mistakes against Big 10 teams that some of that blame has to fall on Rodriguez? Some. When he was doing dumb pootch **** stuff like Mack Brown did today, sure. I didn't see anything today outside of the FG, which was a pretty big error after it was blocked.



You honestly thought the play calling was good? If so, I don't know what to tell you. The only reason we got as many yards as we did and made it close was because Iowa went into a prevent shell of a defense and ultra conservative offense.



You don't think that perhaps Carr's guys knew how to coach ball security better, or even that they just recruited guys that had better ball security? Ok. Grady was a fumbling machine, but what other back or wide receiver had a huge problem? One guy does not a trend make. 3 seasons kind of does. Well Braylon Edwards had a drops problem, but I don't recall inparticular. If you take out dropped punts/kick offs from the last two years, which seem to be fixed btw, I don't see a fumbling problem in particular. Robinson is the most likely to fumble, so you can figure out what to do there...



Really? You think the dropped punts are fixed? Have you watched Gallon back there? And yet he's still out there. I don't think he's just running himself out for every punt return. WR drops are not the issue (although everyone outside Hemingway seems to have a problem). Michigan is averaging 2.67 turnovers per game so far in conference. Through 3 games last year, they were averaging 3 turnovers per game. Not much improvement there.



And I'm sorry, Inexperience is such a bogus excuse. Fine, I can give you that one in season 1 and even 2. But now? Your defensive line is a 5th year senior, a true junior and a redshirt junior. You LB's are two seniors and a true sophmore. Even the secondary isn't as bad as people like to make it out to be, with a senior, two redshirt sophmores, a redshirt freshman and a redshirt freshman/true freshman platoon. And don't give me the sophmore thing. How is a redshirt sophmore any different than a true junior? You've got 8 guys on this defense who have been on campus for at least 3 seasons.

I don't really see a problem with the starting D-line. Roh is a good pass rusher, Martin is all-big 10, and Van bergn is capable. It is not like there is much depth there.

The secondary is talentless 3-stars, and I don't see how you could expect them to ever be good. The luck he has had with qualifications, departures, and overall not panning out of players has to be somewhat his fault, but come on... He has been extremely unlucky with secondary recruits.

I don't have much to say about the linebackers. They are what they are and would never improve in 30 years of playing. Mouton can't be patient and Ezeh can't be aggressive. Demens looks servicable today, but picking are still slim. Michigan lost 2/4 from 08 class before Rodriguez. 09 class was weak at just two 3-stars. Lack of talent.




three years in, depth issues have to be somewhat on Rodriguez. How many transfers has he had? How many non qualifiers? Mouton has been a fine LB this year outside of UMass. I'll wait for the defensive UFR on MGoblog on this game. Although I'll wager it wasn't one of his best, he's been a plus in every other game this season and has been our best defensive player outside of Mike Martin this year. And how could the secondary only be somewhat his fault? How many transfers? How many non qualifiers? I'm sorry, that's on him now.



Such a great sample size you have on your 3 years of massive turnovers by QBs. I mean you have what. Threet who has 11 Int's this year already. You have Forcier who thinks he is Favre. And you have a handful of plays from a freshman qb that was meant to run. Oh and then you have Denard's 4ints in the last 2 games. Which were a mixture of terrible passes and awful decisions.
Pat White never had a problem with Ints.




Um, you don't think three years is a pretty good sample size? 19 games worth of in conference data? Pat White has nothing to do with this. He's not in the Big East anymore. I really could care less what he or his players did at West Virginia. At Michigan, he hasn't done anything. He's managed to beat 2 teams with a winning record in 2 1/2 years, and that was a fluky win over a 7-6 Wisconsin team and a 7-6 Minnesota, both in 2008. I have no idea what you could possibly see that would make you think there's reason for hope that he's somehow going to turn things around. I'd be surprised if we ended up better than 6-6 this year, and I'm sorry, there's no way he should still be around after that

Comments above.

Just to put something in perspective here:

Points per game allowed (in conference):
2008-33.5
2009-33.25 (29.67 in first 3 games)
2010-35.67

Points per game for (in conference)
2008-22.13
2009-22.13 (28 in first 3 games)
2010-29

Rush yards per game allowed (in conference)
2008-172.13
2009-203.38 (159 in first 3 games)
2010-157.33

Rush yards per game for (in conference)
2008-153.5
2009-120.13 (124 in first 3 games)
2010-215.33

Pass yards per game allowed (in conference)
2008-230.75
2009-225.13 (258 in first 3 games)
2010-338.33

Pass yards per game for (in conference)
2008-137.38
2009-201.13 (190 in first 3 games)
2010-275.67

turnovers per game (in conference)
2009-2.88 (3 in first 3 games)
2010-2.67

What I see is a team that's getting better offensive production (although really not much points wise) as it has a QB that actually fits the system and is a dynamic runner. And a defense that is getting progressively more and more terrible every year Rodriguez has been here.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Brewster was fired, but has decided to stay on for the rest of the season (the fact that he gets 200k for doing so probably didn't hurt).

Word on the street is that Joel Maturi (Athletic Director) will not be brought back when his contract expires on June 30th. Of course, that would still mean he gets to hire the coach that the new AD would inherit.

*facepalm*
That's just ********
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_16358321?source=rss

Brewster fired, will coach rest of season
I was talking to a player on the team right at the conclusion of the Badger game and right after the team was informed of his dismissal, and it seems like they want to get back to a pound it out style, similar to what Wisconsin displays, and what actually gave them success before Brewster came in. I'd have to think that Wisconsin offensive coordinator Paul Chryst will be a candidate for the job. Maturi does have connections to the University of Wisconsin as well.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Brewster was fired, but has decided to stay on for the rest of the season (the fact that he gets 200k for doing so probably didn't hurt).

Word on the street is that Joel Maturi (Athletic Director) will not be brought back when his contract expires on June 30th. Of course, that would still mean he gets to hire the coach that the new AD would inherit.

*facepalm*
I'm sure nominally he'll be hiring the new HC but I doubt they'd put much power in the hands of a lame-duck AD. I think the real hiring decision will probably be made by a hiring committee.

Also, I think it's funny how UM fans complain about their secondary being filled with "talentless 3-stars." You know, there are programs that win with those "talentless" players.

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Old 10-17-2010, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure nominally he'll be hiring the new HC but I doubt they'd put much power in the hands of a lame-duck AD. I think the real hiring decision will probably be made by a hiring committee.

Also, I think it's funny how UM fans complain about their secondary being filled with "talentless 3-stars." You know, there are programs that win with those "talentless" players.
Thank you! It's amazing how fans of other programs see this, and yet the RR Kool-Aid patrol can't seem to fathom it. Like I said, I don't expect a top 10 defense, but I expect something better than one of the worst, if not the worst, defenses in football. Hell, just show me some progress. But it's gotten progressively worse each year Rodriguez has been at Michigan.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I'll trade Rich Rodriguez for Tim Brewster.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Thank you! It's amazing how fans of other programs see this, and yet the RR Kool-Ain patrol can't seem to fathom it. Like I said, I don't expect a top 10 defense, but I expect something better than one of the worst, if not the worst, defenses in football. Hell, just show me some progress. But it's gotten progressively worse each year Rodriguez has been at Michigan.
Constantly? Could you show me these teams?
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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In all fairness, Stanzi is one of the better quarterbacks in the country.
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Leslie Frazier interested in Gopher head coaching job
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Constantly? Could you show me these teams?
First, I think it's hilarious that the RR defenders constantly point to the lack of talent and inexperience in the secondary like that's the only reason the defense is terrible. The front 6 has four 4 stars and two 3 stars and only one underclassmen. But they just suck because **** you that's why. The whole defense is bad, not just the secondary, and again, it's gotten worse every year.

Second, I'd say Iowa is a pretty good example. I haven't checked yet, but I'd assume TCU and Boise State aren't stacked with 4 and 5 stars in the secondary. San Diego State is consistently a decent defense and again I'd wager they aren't fielding a bunch of All Americans in the secondary. Those are just the best ones. I could easily go on. And again, these are teams that have good defenses. I'm not even asking for a good defense. But you can win games with a top 60 defense, and we can't even come close to that.

Third, the pass defense was bad in 2008 and 2009 as well, and the secondary wasn't a bunch of inexperienced 3 stars. You want to focus on one season, but the defense has been bad since Rodriguez arrived.

Again, the whole defense has been bad for three years and getting worse. The secondary is just what Rod defenders like to point to as the reason it's not his fault.
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WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

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Old 10-17-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
steelernation77
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Constantly? Could you show me these teams?
Iowa has had some pretty good defensive backfields with walk-ons, two and three stars. Our lone 4-star secondary commit in the last several years doesn't play.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Iowa has had some pretty good defensive backfields with walk-ons, two and three stars. Our lone 4-star secondary commit in the last several years doesn't play.
But your record many years is still unacceptable.

2009 11 2
2008 9 4
2007 6 6
2006 6 7
2005 7 5
2004 10 2
2003 10 3
2002 11 2
2001 7 5
2000 3 9

Correct me if I am wrong, but your whole defense this year is all junior's and seniors except for Hyde, the man that was beaten badly several times yesterday. And Stanzi a senior, while still erratic, has definitely improved with his ability to not make stupid plays. Iowa usually blew games when Stanzi forced things and had turnovers. Michigan will usually lose games when Denard/Tate force things and have turnovers for the time being.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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HOMER Mr. Goosemahn speaking:

Purdue will upset Ohio State next week.

This guy has had a great couple of games vs. OU:

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Old 10-18-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Sorry I haven't posted. Somehow my IP became magically banned. Hoping Shane will unban it soon.

Anyways, props to Bucky Badger. Steam rolled and teabagged the OSU DL and OL.

Pryor wasn't great, wasn't too bad, but the pouting at the end was terrible.

Posey cost himself mega bucks. Alligator arms, missing soft spots in coverage, and straight up dropping the ball won't get it done, dude.

Heyward may have cost himself mega bucks. Yes, he was doubled all day, but come freaking on. Rise up and make some plays kid.

Brian Rolle is a fun player, but way too undersized to play an interior LB position.

The OSU DBs aren't very good, but weren't the problem today.

Think maybe you can scheme up a plan to cover a freaking quick dump to the wideout, Heacock?

Special teams = Short bus.

Offensive line = short bus.

Playcalling for most of the game = short bus.

Tressel is great when his horses are better than the other team. Equal or better talent and he pisses his pants.

The team needs a new OC. The team needs a dedicated ST coach. The team needs much better scenario managment (time, distance, situation, etc...)

OSU is a very good team, but no where near a great one. And no where near as good as they should be with that talent.

Such is the case for many teams across the land. Oh well.

Iowa is going to pwn OSU with the power running game.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
steelernation77
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Originally Posted by aLARGEtopHat View Post
But your record many years is still unacceptable.

2009 11 2
2008 9 4
2007 6 6
2006 6 7
2005 7 5
2004 10 2
2003 10 3
2002 11 2
2001 7 5
2000 3 9

Correct me if I am wrong, but your whole defense this year is all junior's and seniors except for Hyde, the man that was beaten badly several times yesterday. And Stanzi a senior, while still erratic, has definitely improved with his ability to not make stupid plays. Iowa usually blew games when Stanzi forced things and had turnovers. Michigan will usually lose games when Denard/Tate force things and have turnovers for the time being.
Our defense every year is juniors and seniors and we have a good defense pretty much every year.

There are a few steps UM is going to have to take between its current state and a NC.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for the memories Brew and thanks to Black Heart Gold Pants for this little number.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Tressel is great when his horses are better than the other team. Equal or better talent and he pisses his pants.
Wisconsin is nowhere near as talented as Ohio State.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Wisconsin is nowhere near as talented as Ohio State.
This is true for skill positions. Not on the OL or DL, where the game was decided.

This is also where the SEC dominates vs the Big10 (generically from top to bottom).

I will agree that JT got completely outcoached and there is no reason that they should have lost with the talent disparity, even if UW had better line play.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Tom Dienhart reports that super headhunter Chuck Neinas has been hired to spearhead the Minnesota coaching search. He's probably the biggest headhunter in college sports.

Muchas gracias Dios, por su apoyo en este momento de necesidad.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Also, giving the subject and material that Brewster video could have been...I dunno...funny?

I mean, I guess it's cool if you like Iowa and enjoy seeing them beat up Minnesota, but Brewster has done and said a lot more stupid things, and Minnesota has done a lot more awful plays, than what that video showed.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Also, giving the subject and material that Brewster video could have been...I dunno...funny?

I mean, I guess it's cool if you like Iowa and enjoy seeing them beat up Minnesota, but Brewster has done and said a lot more stupid things, and Minnesota has done a lot more awful plays, than what that video showed.
I think it captured his essence pretty well. Lots of "!", Twitter, forging his legacy, meaningless babble, poor results on the field. I'm sure the creator didn't take the time to go through game film to find all of Minnesota's awful plays.
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