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Old 01-12-2010, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Well deserved, and I'm very glad he won this. What an incredible year!


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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
so the third best corner in the league wins the defensive mvp, dont get it
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amen! i love you. about time someone besides me expresses their disdain for this.
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
Woodson had the best all-around season for a corner in years. He was a top three corner in coverage, far and away the best against the run, best blitzing corner (2 sacks, 2 hits, 6 pressures), and picked off 9 passes (3 returned for touchdowns). Only five corners who were on the field for more than 950 plays were thrown at less and no player who played 950 defensive snaps allowed less receptions than Woodson. EDIT: Except Nnamdi Asomugha.

Revis was the best pure cover corner this season, but Woodson was the best all-around corner back and it wasn't that close.
Exactly. The award is given to the "league's most outstanding defensive player" which leaves room for awarding it to a guy who had a stellar all around year, rather than simply the best "shut-down" CB, or LB with the most tackles, etc.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
If not for Woodson's body of work I think Revis would've won it. He had a very special year as a shutdown corner, but sometimes with these awards they turn into a lifetime achievement award.
I really don't think this was a lifetime achievement award, if anythign there is kind of some disdain for Woodson after he disappeared in Oakland for years. He had the most outstanding defensive season. It was close but Woodson definitely stood out as #1, at least in my book.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think this was a lifetime achievement award, if anythign there is kind of some disdain for Woodson after he disappeared in Oakland for years. He had the most outstanding defensive season. It was close but Woodson definitely stood out as #1, at least in my book.
I think there's an argument for either, though I would've chosen Revis. If Woodson had had the season he did but was drafted in Revis' class, I think Revis would've gotten it. IMO without Revis the Jets can't run the defense they do, and they're not the #1 defense in multiple or maybe any category. The other 10 players are so much more free with Revis shutting down the opposition's #1 weapon.

But, like I said, I think you can make a good case for either of them. I am happy for Woodson. It's rare for two DBs to have that kind of season at the same time, especially with the way the NFL is bolstering the passing game. Imagine if Sharper hadn't gotten hurt, it would've really made things interesting.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I will say that watching the Colts-Jets game, it looked to me like Wayne was really getting great separation on Revis, but Manning overthrew him a bunch of times. Also Wayne only played a half, so I don't really agree with his name being up there as a WR Revis shut down.
Well, if we are going based on non-catches and yards then I guess Wayne did fine in the game....fact is Wayne had no impact on the game. Take that how you wish.


What is this 'long overdue' stuff as it relates to Charles Woodson? I read it more than once on the first page (only page I looked through) and take that as he should have won this award before. What else could it mean? I don't get those statements at all.....
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. The award is given to the "league's most outstanding defensive player" which leaves room for awarding it to a guy who had a stellar all around year, rather than simply the best "shut-down" CB, or LB with the most tackles, etc.
What defines 'the league's most oustanding defensive player'? Is it having the all-around numbers? Is it having one of the best year's a players had at the position? Depends on how you define and look at it. Woodson had a great season, so I won't argue with it. However, I don't buy any of the 'and its not even close' crap. You use players where they provide the most value to your team. Revis is a superior cover corner, and had a season rarely seen in the NFL in that regard. Using him in other means doesn't make sense 'just to pad the all-around stats'. His impact was just as large to the Jets, who had a solid defense in their own right.

I agree that Woodson was deserving, and i'm not arguing that Revis deserved it more so than Woodson, but I certainly don't get some of the comments being put out. Woodson had some games that were unbelievable and simply made plays in many facets. Let's not simply disgard what Revis did because he didn't win the award, as he had one of the better seasons a CB could possibly have. If Woodson didn't have such a great season with all the numbers he did, Revis would have been a shoe-in. If he still wouldn't have won, then it simply shows how the designation of the award is flawed.

Congratulations to Woodson on a deserving win. Not overdue, but deserving based on the season he had. Hopefully Revis can use the many seasons ahead of him to put together comparable seasons and win the award in the future.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think this was a lifetime achievement award, if anythign there is kind of some disdain for Woodson after he disappeared in Oakland for years. He had the most outstanding defensive season. It was close but Woodson definitely stood out as #1, at least in my book.
I don't think many people blame someone for slacking off and underachieving in Oakland anymore.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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What defines 'the league's most oustanding defensive player'? Is it having the all-around numbers? Is it having one of the best year's a players had at the position? Depends on how you define and look at it. Woodson had a great season, so I won't argue with it. However, I don't buy any of the 'and its not even close' crap. You use players where they provide the most value to your team. Revis is a superior cover corner, and had a season rarely seen in the NFL in that regard. Using him in other means doesn't make sense 'just to pad the all-around stats'. His impact was just as large to the Jets, who had a solid defense in their own right.

I agree that Woodson was deserving, and i'm not arguing that Revis deserved it more so than Woodson, but I certainly don't get some of the comments being put out. Woodson had some games that were unbelievable and simply made plays in many facets. Let's not simply disgard what Revis did because he didn't win the award, as he had one of the better seasons a CB could possibly have. If Woodson didn't have such a great season with all the numbers he did, Revis would have been a shoe-in. If he still wouldn't have won, then it simply shows how the designation of the award is flawed.

Congratulations to Woodson on a deserving win. Not overdue, but deserving based on the season he had. Hopefully Revis can use the many seasons ahead of him to put together comparable seasons and win the award in the future.
I completely agree with you and thought I was making the same point. Revis was definitely deserving of his votes but I think the right guy won.

Saying Revis was the best corner in the league is relative and subjective, ergo the "so the 3rd best CB in the league won" post was inaccurate. Which is the reason I qouted it and responded the way I did. So I'm not quite sure why you qouted me, but I'll assume it's because I didn't make my point clear enough.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I think Revis shouldve won it. He was by far the best CB in the league this year.

Having that said, I don't mind Woodson winning it. This was his one chance to get one, and he did. Congrats. He gets it over Revis bc of seniority in my eyes. But if we went strictly by performance, Revis got jobbed.

To be fair, Woodson was easily the 2nd most deserving of this award.


Now it begs the question, is Woodson a HOFer?
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I completely agree with you and thought I was making the same point. Revis was definitely deserving of his votes but I think the right guy won.

Saying Revis was the best corner in the league is relative and subjective, ergo the "so the 3rd best CB in the league won" post was inaccurate. Which is the reason I qouted it and responded the way I did. So I'm not quite sure why you qouted me, but I'll assume it's because I didn't make my point clear enough.
We are on the same page. Although I wasn't 100% certain which direction you were going, I certainly didn't take it as we had differing opinions. Consider it that I was building off of what you said to elaborate further.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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We are on the same page. Although I wasn't 100% certain which direction you were going, I certainly didn't take it as we had differing opinions. Consider it that I was building off of what you said to elaborate further.
Got it. Considering it as mentioned above. :D
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Deserved. I just wonder why Champ Bailey never won this award even after balling at an all time level in 2005 & 2006.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I think Revis shouldve won it. He was by far the best CB in the league this year.

Having that said, I don't mind Woodson winning it. This was his one chance to get one, and he did. Congrats. He gets it over Revis bc of seniority in my eyes. But if we went strictly by performance, Revis got jobbed.

To be fair, Woodson was easily the 2nd most deserving of this award.


Now it begs the question, is Woodson a HOFer?
Similar to what I was trying to get to. If Revis doesn't win the award this year it pretty much identifies that an elite elite cover corner who does his job to the highest levels it can be done cannot win the award, assuming that another player excels during the season.

In your opinions, would Revis have won the award above previous season's award winners? Was his coverage and performance this season superior to the sack totals of previous years winners? Where does a coverage CBs abilities rank in the scale of things? Elite pass rushing vs elite coverage ability? What takes priority?

All interesting questions in my mind, although again I believe I have swayed off topic....
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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antoine winfield begs to differ.
Wasn't Antoine Winfield injured all year? Either way, Charles Woodson is better against the run.

And actually, if it wasn't for Woodson in the wild card game the Packers probably wouldn't have had a chance to win. Without the forced fumble in Packer territory the Cardinals more than likely would have went up 24-0 before halftime, which would have been ridiculous to overcome. Instead the Packers get the ball, go down, and make the score 17-7. And the pass defense he had in the second half on third down to force the Cardinals to punt gave the Packers the ONE Cardinal punt of the second half.

Our defense played like absolute **** during that game, but Woodson still had an impact, despite the lenience of the refs.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Similar to what I was trying to get to. If Revis doesn't win the award this year it pretty much identifies that an elite elite cover corner who does his job to the highest levels it can be done cannot win the award, assuming that another player excels during the season.

In your opinions, would Revis have won the award above previous season's award winners? Was his coverage and performance this season superior to the sack totals of previous years winners? Where does a coverage CBs abilities rank in the scale of things? Elite pass rushing vs elite coverage ability? What takes priority?

All interesting questions in my mind, although again I believe I have swayed off topic....
In my eyes, Revis has put together the best season Ive seen from a CB in years...

I would give it to him last year over Harrison, sure. The thing is, moving forward, i think the press has no choice but to give more consideration to CBs. As the league is starting to be dominated by elite WRs, having a CB who does what Revis does (which we honestly haven't seen since the early 2000s at best) is absolutely amazing. Especially with today's rules.

As a guy who loves the position, I can't help but marvel at how good Revis is. He's the best. The best ive seen in a long time.

Id probably take Revis over a lot of front 7 superstars in this league. I mean that. Finding a guy who does what Revis does is ALOT harder than finding a guy who rushes the passer.

The guy never bites on a double move, never gives an inch of separation away, doesn't even need to be a bully against WRs, he's simply amazing. Thats the only word I can use to describe Revis. He's amazing.

And make no mistake, Revis could do everything Woodson did. He can blitz, sack, force fumbles etc. But the real question is...why?

Why not just put him 1 on 1 on an island against the best weapon on the other team and have him take that guy away on every snap of the game? Thats how nice Revis is.

And having a guy like that in today's game makes scheming for offenses that much easier. I can't say enough positive things about Revis.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Now it begs the question, is Woodson a HOFer?
If he is, it better not be before Ty Law. Woodson has some years left to build his candidacy, definitely could get there. This award helps a lot.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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If he is, it better not be before Ty Law. Woodson has some years left to build his candidacy, definitely could get there. This award helps a lot.
Well, fine. We'll just going to have to go ahead and put both former Wolverines in there! :D
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Well, fine. We'll just going to have to go ahead and put both former Wolverines in there! :D
I knew that much Michigan in one post was going to be like a Sniper signal in the sky :D
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Wasn't Antoine Winfield injured all year? Either way, Charles Woodson is better against the run.

And actually, if it wasn't for Woodson in the wild card game the Packers probably wouldn't have had a chance to win. Without the forced fumble in Packer territory the Cardinals more than likely would have went up 24-0 before halftime, which would have been ridiculous to overcome. Instead the Packers get the ball, go down, and make the score 17-7. And the pass defense he had in the second half on third down to force the Cardinals to punt gave the Packers the ONE Cardinal punt of the second half.

Our defense played like absolute **** during that game, but Woodson still had an impact, despite the lenience of the refs.
winfield was injured a good chunk of the year, but i disagree that woodsen is better against the run. and no offense, but i think it is funny to give any credit what so ever to anyone on either defense in the wild card game. and you cite that he had one good play pass defense, so i dont really see the point you are making, but whatever. i dont agree with the award because i think revis was more deserving, but whatever, woodsen had a hell of a year. there have been worse choices, thats for sure, i am not too upset.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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winfield was injured a good chunk of the year, but i disagree that woodsen is better against the run. and no offense, but i think it is funny to give any credit what so ever to anyone on either defense in the wild card game. and you cite that he had one good play pass defense, so i dont really see the point you are making, but whatever. i dont agree with the award because i think revis was more deserving, but whatever, woodsen had a hell of a year. there have been worse choices, thats for sure, i am not too upset.
Meh, all I was saying was that the Cardinals offense gave the ball back to the Packers twice, once on a turnover and once on a punt, and they were both because of Charles Woodson.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Meh, all I was saying was that the Cardinals offense gave the ball back to the Packers twice, once on a turnover and once on a punt, and they were both because of Charles Woodson.
ok thats legit, i was just pointing out the irony of praising a corner for playing good pass defense on one play and giving up 51 points haha.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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ok thats legit, i was just pointing out the irony of praising a corner for playing good pass defense on one play and giving up 51 points haha.
I'll point out the stupidity in seeing 51 points and blaming one player for it. Say Woodson and Fitzgerald had gone head-to-head every play and Fitzgerald had been shut out, yet the Cardinals had still scored 51 points. Would you be blaming Woodson?

Also, hard to blame Woodson for the OT TD, but with the way your logic is working, I suppose it's not too far-fetched.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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I'll point out the stupidity in seeing 51 points and blaming one player for it. Say Woodson and Fitzgerald had gone head-to-head every play and Fitzgerald had been shut out, yet the Cardinals had still scored 51 points. Would you be blaming Woodson?

Also, hard to blame Woodson for the OT TD, but with the way your logic is working, I suppose it's not too far-fetched.
im not blaming one player for giving up 51 points, so you interpreted that completely wrong, sir. i am just pointing out the irony of saying a defender had a great game when his units gave up 51 points. jesus christ.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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i am just pointing out the irony of saying a defender had a great game when his units gave up 51 points. jesus christ.
sniper just pointed out your mistake, yet you still say the GB defense gave up 51 points.....
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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im not blaming one player for giving up 51 points, so you interpreted that completely wrong, sir. i am just pointing out the irony of saying a defender had a great game when his units gave up 51 points. jesus christ.
He stole a pass from Fitzgerald the week before and returned it for his 3rd defensive TD of the year...Voting was done before the playoffs, so it's a moot point.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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He stole a pass from Fitzgerald the week before and returned it for his 3rd defensive TD of the year...
Matt Leinart threw it
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