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Old 01-13-2010, 08:36 PM    (permalink
CC.SD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsorace
Fun fact of the day, 6 of Woodson's 9 ints came against the following QBs:

Kyle Boller- 1
Derek Anderson- 1
Matt Stafford- 2
Jay Cutler- 1
Matt Leinart-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope
5 of Revis' 6 picks came against:

Jamarcus Russell
Jake Delhomme (2)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Josh Freeman
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
Yeah but nobody uses Revis' interception total to argue why he's better.
Turnabout, it is teh fair play. If I had any logic I would debate this bait and switch but I'll just say that Woodson's cover skills are excellent too :D
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
Fun fact of the day, 6 of Woodson's 9 ints came against the following QBs:

Kyle Boller- 1
Derek Anderson- 1
Matt Stafford- 2
Jay Cutler- 1
Matt Leinart-1
The other three against Palmer and Romo.

Who would you like him to intercept? Manning? Brees? Brady? He intercepted the guys he faced. What happened to the other three interceptions? Do you not recognize them because they came against guys that are considered good? I'm sorry but his interceptions are a tad bit more impressive than Revis'. If that's not your point than why even post that?
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
Fun fact of the day, 6 of Woodson's 9 ints came against the following QBs:

Kyle Boller- 1
Derek Anderson- 1
Matt Stafford- 2
Jay Cutler- 1
Matt Leinart-1

And 5 of Revis' 6 came against Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jake Delhomme, and Josh Freeman. What's your point?

Edit- Damnit someone already said that. That's what I get for jumping into an argument without reading.

Last edited by yo123 : 01-14-2010 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm not counting anything woodson does until he picks off dan marino.

(hey, he played him twice)
I can't wait until he picks off Favre. That is if he ever has another oppurtunity. It happened all the time in practice.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
Fun fact of the day, 6 of Woodson's 9 ints came against the following QBs:

Kyle Boller- 1
Derek Anderson- 1
Matt Stafford- 2
Jay Cutler- 1
Matt Leinart-1
Fun fact of the day, Woodson is the defensive MVP. So, either get over it, or continue bitching...
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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How many defenders have won Heisman and Defensive Player of the Year?

Woodson was the first and most likely the last atleast for a while.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Fun fact of the day, Woodson is the defensive MVP. So, either get over it, or continue bitching...
That post right there, I like it.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
Yeah but nobody uses Revis' interception total to argue why he's better.
I think this is a very good point. The key to revis is that he has become the best cover corner in the league. The stats that become important with that kind of label are yards against, and catches allowed. Of course, Revis had very impressive numbers in that regard.

However I think it must be noted that while there are certain expectations that come with specific positions, on defense it is possible to contribute beyond that. One can make the argument that Revis's play helped contribute to the defense being number one, just like how one could be made for the opposing view, that the defense helped his play. I'm sure it's both. To choose one of those arguments and run with it I believe is a rather weak play. Woodson contributed across the board, his stats are there for all to see. When arguing his case, you do not need to make it a 'team' oriented one. That is because his individual play was outstanding and it showed in his individual numbers. Therefore, the argument for him is very strong.

Argumentation and politics aside, I personally thought Jared Allen should have won. I get why he didn't though, Woodson is well deserving. Revis has arrived, he's an outstanding player-- I'm sure he will win the award at some point in his career.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Boston View Post
Fun fact of the day, Woodson is the defensive MVP. So, either get over it, or continue bitching...
If we're not allowed to discuss the award why not lock the thread? I already said I thought Woodson would have won and that he was a deserving winner. Nobody is bitching.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Wow, both CBs got most of their picks from bad Quarterbacks, what a shocker.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why people feel the need to say 'stop bitching'. It's a freaking discussion board! I haven't seen any personal attacks throughout the thread (from what I've read), although a few one-on-one battles where someone gets called out for what they post. Fair game.

To summarize, I'm yet to see anyone say that either player was not worthy of winning the award. However, I have seen the odd 'it shouldn't have been close', which by all accounts that person deserves to be ganged up on - they are idiots. It could have gone either way, but Revis got the US Today award, while Woodson got the more important AP award.

For those who have stated 'Revis is young and will get this award in the future', that is hardly the truth. A season like Revis had will be difficult to duplicate, given all the factors (#1 defense, the consistent caliber of WR#1 he kept under 35 yards, league leader in PDs, etc.). These things are hard to duplicate. It's like saying Fletcher played unreal this season, but in the next 10 seasons he'll make it because he's good. Never happened. Nothing is a gaurantee and this could be his best/only shot. I think this is the prime example of how difficult it is to get this award being a True Cover Corner.

I stated earlier, but again will say, it is amazing to consider what a cover corner would have to do to win the award. Unless you have an elite level of coverage that is rarely seen, have balls thrown at you so you can get stats, not be beaten for big plays at all throughout the season (for Revis purposes I'll admit the Ginn TD, don't jump on me), and hope other defensive players don't have a season with big stat numbers. Realistically you also have to hope you have a good team around you to have a highly touted defense and victories to boot (Revis was better this season than Nnamdi was past years, but Nnamdi didn't get nearly the attention he deserved for his performance based on the team around him).

Sad to know that greatness can actually go unnoticed (not saying Revis is/was one of the greats this season, rather that in general an elite corner who doesn't get the stats and simply shuts down his opponent can have many factors come into play that reduce the acknowledgment of their accomplishments).


EDIT: Fixed/updated the awards reference identified by tjsunstein below.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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Old 01-15-2010, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
I don't get why people feel the need to say 'stop bitching'. It's a freaking discussion board! I haven't seen any personal attacks throughout the thread (from what I've read), although a few one-on-one battles where someone gets called out for what they post. Fair game.

To summarize, I'm yet to see anyone say that either player was not worthy of winning the award. However, I have seen the odd 'it shouldn't have been close', which by all accounts that person deserves to be ganged up on - they are idiots. It could have gone either way, but Revis got AP, Woodson got the more important one.

For those who have stated 'Revis is young and will get this award in the future', that is hardly the truth. A season like Revis had will be difficult to duplicate, given all the factors (#1 defense, the consistent caliber of WR#1 he kept under 35 yards, league leader in PDs, etc.). These things are hard to duplicate. It's like saying Fletcher played unreal this season, but in the next 10 seasons he'll make it because he's good. Never happened. Nothing is a gaurantee and this could be his best/only shot. I think this is the prime example of how difficult it is to get this award being a True Cover Corner.

I stated earlier, but again will say, it is amazing to consider what a cover corner would have to do to win the award. Unless you have an elite level of coverage that is rarely seen, have balls thrown at you so you can get stats, not be beaten for big plays at all throughout the season (for Revis purposes I'll admit the Ginn TD, don't jump on me), and hope other defensive players don't have a season with big stat numbers. Realistically you also have to hope you have a good team around you to have a highly touted defense and victories to boot (Revis was better this season than Nnamdi was past years, but Nnamdi didn't get nearly the attention he deserved for his performance based on the team around him).

Sad to know that greatness can actually go unnoticed (not saying Revis is/was one of the greats this season, rather that in general an elite corner who doesn't get the stats and simply shuts down his opponent can have many factors come into play that reduce the acknowledgment of their accomplishments).
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I have just one gripe with this post, though. Revis won the USA Today Defensive Player of the Year award and Woodson won the AP one. The AP is the more important one. Other than that, I agree with this post for the most part.

I don't think that Woodson should have been far and away the Defensive Player of the Year because anyone that watched Revis this year knows the kind of impact he had. It's the stats that Woodson accumulated this year that made him the more sexy pick. I won't repost them, if you don't know what they are then do some research.

What each player did this year is just as rare as the other. I wouldn't have been opposed to a split even with my Packer bias (which I don't think is that strong in comparison).
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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I have just one gripe with this post, though. Revis won the USA Today Defensive Player of the Year award and Woodson won the AP one. The AP is the more important one. Other than that, I agree with this post for the most part.

I don't think that Woodson should have been far and away the Defensive Player of the Year because anyone that watched Revis this year knows the kind of impact he had. It's the stats that Woodson accumulated this year that made him the more sexy pick. I won't repost them, if you don't know what they are then do some research.

What each player did this year is just as rare as the other. I wouldn't have been opposed to a split even with my Packer bias (which I don't think is that strong in comparison).

My mistake on the awards each won. Got them mixed up and didn't feel like checking.

Like I said, not taking away from what Woodson did, his play made the Packers D what it was (tops in takeaways?) and he made his share of big plays. Obviously I didn't watch as many Packers games as Jets games, so my take can't be 100%. However, I will say that based on the fact that I watched every Jets game this season and that Revis didn't win, I think that says a lot about how Woodson played this season. Certainly can't just look at the stats, and I don't have the footage to see behind them, but based on the stats alone he had a season that is hard to compare to.

No gripes here, although everyone knows where my heart goes on this one...
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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