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Old 01-14-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
noondog
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First of all, saying that IF we take Suh or McCoy then we won't get a first round talent at the top of round 2 is presumptuous and assinine...you're basically saying that you know how the first will shake out. I mean, we got Delmas at the top of two last year...that worked out alright for us, didn't it?

Secondly, Mount Cody is a gap-stuffer, not one to chase the quarterback. You really want two NT's playing inside with no penetration? And yes, the push he needs to work on is away from the dinner table...he is WAY out of shape.

And as for McCoy busting...I mean, dude. The chances of Cody busting > the chances of McCoy busting by leaps and bounds.

ANYONE can bust or not live up to the hype...including Berry.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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First of all, saying that IF we take Suh or McCoy then we won't get a first round talent at the top of round 2 is presumptuous and assinine...you're basically saying that you know how the first will shake out. I mean, we got Delmas at the top of two last year...that worked out alright for us, didn't it?
Saying that if we take Suh or McCoy at 2 means we DEFINANTLY won't get a first round caliber talent at the top of round two is assinine BUT what I can say is DT is far far FAR and away the deepest position in this draft. DT goes 6-7 deep with high end talent where say the OT talent is maybe 2-3 players deep. So which would you rather have two holes filled with top talent or one?
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Major Wright is not going in the 2nd round. Remember we pick at the top of each round too, maybe Arenas doesn't make it out of the 2nd, but I don't see Wright being that much of a stretch. He is a 3-5 rounder at this point.
I agree with DoWnThEfiEld regarding Major Wright's stock in the 3-5 range. Which surprises me that he decided to come out as a junior? This is as deep of a Safety class as I can remember ... Berry, Mays, E. Thomas, Allen, Stuckey, Asante, Chancellor imo are all higher rated & off the board before Wright. That would be a whole crap load of S taken in 2 rds but people have their opinions on players?!

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We have greater needs than a 2 down defensive linemen. If we want a DT there are two far superior prospects that we can target.
I agree, no on Cody @ #34. Do some homework and get a 330 Cam Thomas in rd 5!
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Saying that if we take Suh or McCoy at 2 means we DEFINANTLY won't get a first round caliber talent at the top of round two is assinine BUT what I can say is DT is far far FAR and away the deepest position in this draft. DT goes 6-7 deep with high end talent where say the OT talent is maybe 2-3 players deep. So which would you rather have two holes filled with top talent or one?
Obviously two, but the notion that we can't fill a need with a top end talent in round two if we take Suh or McCoy in the first is erroneous. We have more needs than just DT and LT. DE, CB and G are a few of the more obvious positions that we could use an upgrade at. What if Brandon Spikes slips to us? Foote won't be around forever. My point is that the picture is much larger than just DT and LT.

Not to mention that passing on superior talent in the first to set yourself up for your second round pick is just...well, it sounds like something Millen would do.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I've seen Taylor Mays drop into several mock's 2nd rounds ... I don't think this is possible for he should shine at the combine with triangle numbers. Thoughts of him @ #34?
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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his flaws are all coachable. worst case scenario is that he makes a few lapses in coverage and gives up a couple deep touchdowns his first couple seasons then turns into a fine Pro Bowl player. That's not something too horrible compared with what we experianced this year.

Delmas seemed to hurt a WR or TE every other game(well knocked out for a series), Mays could hurt people during the weeks that Delmas doesn't. He's not good enough to be Sean Taylor but I think he has the talent to be that good. His skills don't come along often. He appears to be a bit laid back, but Delmas is intense and can get the best out of him. I'd say he'd definately be BPA.
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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No safeties until the fourth!
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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After all the Ernie Sims nonsense, you finally say something that makes sense.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Uhhhhh... what about moving Ernie Sims to Safety? That'll work, right??
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcdJMpgyEWk

Go watch some of his highlights, this guy gets around pretty good for being 380lbs. Imagine what he could do if we get him down to 340-350.....I agree, he could end up being a bust, but we wouldn't be spending a top 5 pick on him (DT has one of the highest bust rates). There is some risk but very high reward if he pans out.

Let me clarify, I won't be upset if McCoy is picked (I obviously prefer Suh or Berry). If Schwartz and Mayhew feel he is the guy, then I trust their decision.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Cody can be a 3 down lineman IMO. He gets as good a push up the middle as anyone and would significantly help the pass rush by collapsing the pocket from the middle. Yes he will have to get better conditioned, not a big deal. Did he tell you he refuses to get into better shape or something? I don't want McCoy, I just get this feeling he's gonna be a bust. Odds are one of them (Suh or McCoy) will fail in the NFL. Remember Jonathan Sullivan? Dewayne Robertson? William Joseph?
Oh since you feel McCoy will be a bust I'm on board for a 2 down defensive linemen. Cody has just a big chance of being a bust as Suh or McCoy. So your argument is based off your personal opinion and thats all.

BTW I don't even think Cody played three downs at Alabama. Also our defense is terrible they give up long drives so you will be taking a guy that will not have much impact until the defense is better anyways because of his size/poor conditioning and him having to come off the field.

He may not be a bad player in the NFL but given our current state I don't see him really having that much value to us in comparison to other prospects. 2 or 3 years down the road, yah maybe, but now, no.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scotty D View Post
I'd say there are more than 32 players that should get a first round grade this year.
In any normal draft year, there are likely 35 potential prospects for round 1. Only in very poor draft years do we find limited prospects .However from 25 on. it is more likely that they are solid 2nd rounders where somebody has to fill the void. There are almosat zero drafts that contain 32 actual 1st round talents. I don't think I've ever seen a draft where there wasn't significant drop off after pick 12 -14 and in some drafts it can be as low as 8.
I agree that this draft looks on paper to be pretty solid but many are kidding themselves if they think round 2 guys are real round 1 talents. There is just a tier from #25-35 where the 2nd round talent is significantly better than the rest of those who follow in round 2.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Oh since you feel McCoy will be a bust I'm on board for a 2 down defensive linemen. Cody has just a big chance of being a bust as Suh or McCoy. So your argument is based off your personal opinion and thats all.

BTW I don't even think Cody played three downs at Alabama. Also our defense is terrible they give up long drives so you will be taking a guy that will not have much impact until the defense is better anyways because of his size/poor conditioning and him having to come off the field.

He may not be a bad player in the NFL but given our current state I don't see him really having that much value to us in comparison to other prospects. 2 or 3 years down the road, yah maybe, but now, no.


Cody played 3 downs at Alabama, he also played some fullback....If you watched the NC game you would have seen him doing so. That said, I'm not completely sold on the guy either. He's just a potential option at this point. We'll see how he grades out at the combine and go from there.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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No safeties until the fourth!
Which 4th rd safety prospects do you like Scotty D?
For instance, Johnson from Utah or McCarthy from Notre Dame? For some reason I think Kam Chancellor Va Tech will be slip (maybe run a slow 40) & drop to us in rd 4. I like his skills & size. your thoughts specifically?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cotts1 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcdJMpgyEWk

Go watch some of his highlights, this guy gets around pretty good for being 380lbs. Imagine what he could do if we get him down to 340-350.....I agree, he could end up being a bust, but we wouldn't be spending a top 5 pick on him (DT has one of the highest bust rates). There is some risk but very high reward if he pans out.

Let me clarify, I won't be upset if McCoy is picked (I obviously prefer Suh or Berry). If Schwartz and Mayhew feel he is the guy, then I trust their decision.
We already have a 350 lb NT plug that is a decent athlete in Sammie Hill. Put a play maker like Suh next to him & a rising tide raises all ships. Both players elevate their production. Get a DE like Selvie in rd 3 and we are making match up problems for offensive lines with Avril, Suh, Hill, Selvie across our trenches. Plus look for Levy to make a jump in year 2 & either draft a FS or CB rookie starter to compliment Delmas and we are on our way. There are a few other monster NT's like Cam Thomas UNC & Kade Weston UGA that had productive careers & made Marvin Austin & Geno Atkins stars. Look for them in rd 5 if you insist on anther NT with Hill. I just think Cody gets the phat contract & then realizes how many Coney Island's are in Detroit & proceeds to balloon up over 4bills easy. ;o) Just say'n ...
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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1. Joe Haden CB
2. Kyle Wilson CB
3. CJ Williams DE
4. Mike Johnson OG
5. Riley Cooper WR
6. Myron Rolle SS
7. Michael Smith RB

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Old 01-14-2010, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Last year it was somewhat talked about that we could go potentially all offense, or all defense, or the more realistically offense/defense split; so in an attempt to waste some time I came up with my opinion of how each scenario could play itself out.

I. All Offense:
1) Russell Okung, LT, OK St
2) Jonathan Dwyer, RB, GT
3) Jon Asamoah, OG, Illinois
4) Blair White, WR, MSU
5) Nathan Overbay, TE, Eastern Washington
5) Kenny Alfred, C, Wash. St.
6) Kelton Tindal, WR, Newberry

II. All Defense:
1) Suh/McCoy, DT
2) Greg Hardy/Brandon Graham, DE
3) Kyle Wilson/Amari Spievey, CB
4) Kam Chancellor/Major Wright, FS
5) Pat Angerer/Josh Hull, MLB
5) Sherrick McManis/Walter Thurmond, CB
6) Cam Thomas/Jay Ross, DT

III. Mix:
1) Suh/McCoy, DT
2) Greg Hardy/Brandon Graham, DE
3) Jon Asamoah, OG, Ill.
4) Myron Lewis, CB, Vandy
5) Blair White, WR, MSU
5) Kurt Coleman, S, OSU
6) Joique Bell, RB, Wayne St.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Which 4th rd safety prospects do you like Scotty D?
For instance, Johnson from Utah or McCarthy from Notre Dame? For some reason I think Kam Chancellor Va Tech will be slip (maybe run a slow 40) & drop to us in rd 4. I like his skills & size. your thoughts specifically?




We already have a 350 lb NT plug that is a decent athlete in Sammie Hill. Put a play maker like Suh next to him & a rising tide raises all ships. Both players elevate their production. Get a DE like Selvie in rd 3 and we are making match up problems for offensive lines with Avril, Suh, Hill, Selvie across our trenches. Plus look for Levy to make a jump in year 2 & either draft a FS or CB rookie starter to compliment Delmas and we are on our way. There are a few other monster NT's like Cam Thomas UNC & Kade Weston UGA that had productive careers & made Marvin Austin & Geno Atkins stars. Look for them in rd 5 if you insist on anther NT with Hill. I just think Cody gets the phat contract & then realizes how many Coney Island's are in Detroit & proceeds to balloon up over 4bills easy. ;o) Just say'n ...
Having two monsters in the middle works for the Vikings. The push they give makes it so easy for Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. Sammie Hill is more like 330, not 350. I have no problem with drafting a Cam Thomas or Kade Weston. We obviously just disagree on draft strategy. You believe in building the trenches first and foremost... I believe in taking skill above all else. I believe you can build the trenches in the middle rounds.

Look at the Colts, they haven't selected a OL or DT in round 1 in over 10 years, yet they have one of the best O-lines and best D-lines in the NFL......
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Look at the Colts, they haven't selected a OL or DT in round 1 in over 10 years, yet they have one of the best O-lines and best D-lines in the NFL......
Well, as far as the OL.. Peyton Manning makes them look really good. A good/great QB will make everyone on the offense look better than they maybe are. Coaching helps, too. Also.. Bill Polian.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:38 AM    (permalink
cotts1
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Originally Posted by Lions WMD View Post
Well, as far as the OL.. Peyton Manning makes them look really good. A good/great QB will make everyone on the offense look better than they maybe are. Coaching helps, too. Also.. Bill Polian.
No question having a 4-time MVP at QB helps, But if you watch the Colts, they do an excellent job of protecting him. Very rarely does Peyton get touched.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:38 AM    (permalink
noondog
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Originally Posted by StorminNorman View Post
1. Joe Haden CB
2. Kyle Wilson CB
3. CJ Williams DE
4. Mike Johnson OG
5. Riley Cooper WR
6. Myron Rolle SS
7. Michael Smith RB
I would wig right out. Epic fail.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:50 AM    (permalink
Scotty D
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Which 4th rd safety prospects do you like Scotty D?
For instance, Johnson from Utah or McCarthy from Notre Dame? For some reason I think Kam Chancellor Va Tech will be slip (maybe run a slow 40) & drop to us in rd 4. I like his skills & size. your thoughts specifically?

I really like all three of those guys. McCarthy is a pretty underrated playmaker. I was trying to think of the type of safety I want next to Delmas. A ballhawk?

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II. All Defense:
1) Suh/McCoy, DT
2) Greg Hardy/Brandon Graham, DE
3) Kyle Wilson/Amari Spievey, CB
4) Kam Chancellor/Major Wright, FS
5) Pat Angerer/Josh Hull, MLB
5) Sherrick McManis/Walter Thurmond, CB
6) Cam Thomas/Jay Ross, DT
I'd really like this draft. At the top of round 2 I think Everson Griffin might slip as well. Kyle Wilson is a stud and a great returner.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:54 AM    (permalink
noondog
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Cody played 3 downs at Alabama, he also played some fullback....If you watched the NC game you would have seen him doing so.
Qualify that. He plays fullback in goal line situations to open a Jenna Jameson size gaping hole for the running back. Let's not make it out like he's a two-way player and will get drafted on his offensive merits as well as his defensive merits.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Qualify that. He plays fullback in goal line situations to open a Jenna Jameson size gaping hole for the running back. Let's not make it out like he's a two-way player and will get drafted on his offensive merits as well as his defensive merits.
No he is trying to prove that he is more athletic than people think because he lined up at fullback ran three steps and ran into some undersized linebacker/defensive back.

Cotts you say we should get him down to 340-350 range and imagine what he could do. His size is his strength, he probably won't be the same player after losing 40 lbs. I just cannot justify the Lions of having the luxury of taking a player like Cody right now.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:22 AM    (permalink
SINCE1978
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Originally Posted by StorminNorman View Post
1. Joe Haden CB
2. Kyle Wilson CB
3. CJ Williams DE
4. Mike Johnson OG
5. Riley Cooper WR
6. Myron Rolle SS
7. Michael Smith RB
Ugghh ... Haden @ #2 then follow that up with another undersized CB. I would hate that draft. Do you mean CJ Wilson in rd 3? I don't know of a CJ Williams ... Not splitting hairs, just curious. I like Haden's skills if we were to trade up the board & get more picks and he was there at like 10 I would be cool with that but not @ #2 overall Norman. You like making my blood boil don't you?! HA! ;o)

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Originally Posted by cotts1 View Post
Having two monsters in the middle works for the Vikings. The push they give makes it so easy for Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. Sammie Hill is more like 330, not 350. I have no problem with drafting a Cam Thomas or Kade Weston. We obviously just disagree on draft strategy. You believe in building the trenches first and foremost... I believe in taking skill above all else. I believe you can build the trenches in the middle rounds.

Look at the Colts, they haven't selected a OL or DT in round 1 in over 10 years, yet they have one of the best O-lines and best D-lines in the NFL......
Your strategy of drafting "skill" with high round picks has really been working good for Detroit the past decade. Shall I list the busts? Right now there are as many or more undrafted or late round picks @ RB & WR in this league as there are lineman. (For every Stafford a Romo .. for every Pettigrew a Gates .. for every K. Smith a R. Grant .. for every CJ a Donald Driver) I'm just say'n ...

Also, that is untrue about the Colts actually ... TE is a lineman so is DE. Clark (02) Freeney (03) both first round picks. Tony Ugoh was pick #42 (rd 2) in 07 which technically is not a 1st rounder, but a pretty high pick imo. In conclusion, ditto of what the others said about a 4x NFL MVP calling the shots back there, making the line look better than they are.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Tony Ugoh was pick #42 (rd 2) in 07 which technically is not a 1st rounder, but a pretty high pick imo.
The Colts actually traded their first round pick the following year for the opportunity to draft Ugoh.
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