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Old 01-13-2010, 07:26 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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Default Playoffs Rd. 2, Dallas @ Minnesota

It's mid week and I wanted to start talking about this game now.


Alot of talk being made out of Loadholt and McKinnie handling Ware & Spencer, I think it'll be a key point for this game.


My early prediction is we win, 27-24, I just think their secondary is a really big weak spot and Garrett loves to pass anyway so if we got behind I think their corners and safeties will give up the big play. Felix is fast enough to get to the edge and not run right at the Williams wall.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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The Vikings are mentally weak. I can't see them beating us. As far as confidence goes, ours is legit... theirs is fake. Favre is saying that losing to us will be a shock, but I don't think he really believes that. He's just saying that. Otherwise, why would he follow that up by saying the Cowboys have a ton of confidence and have been playing well for weeks now, and are peaking at the right time? He's saying tough words, but he knows losing to us is a real possibility. That's why I say their confidence is fake.

Our guys know we'll bring the ruckus! Both sides of the ball feel unstoppable.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Stole this off another board but it's impressive.



OK guys.....I'm tired of hearing about the Vikings second half collapse, and about the Cowboys being the hottest team in the NFL right now.

OK...let's assume the Vikings were better in the first half than they were in the second half.

We all know the Vikings played totally different at home compared to on the road during that second half.....but does anyone really have a feel for how much different?

Taking ONLY the 2nd half games that were played at home...here are some numbers to let you know just how dominant the Vikings have been on their home turf over this stretch.

The Vikings played 5 games at home during the last 8 games of the season:

They won all 5 games (indeed they are undefeated in all 8 home games this year....but since the official story line is about the Vikings falling apart the 2nd half I am concentrating only on those games)

In those 5 home games the Vikings scored an average of 34.4 points per game.
The fewest points they scored in any of those 5 games is 27. (T. Jackson and the 2nd stringers got playing time in the 2nd half of all 5 games....so I think it's safe to assume more points could have been had.)

In those same 5 home games the Vikings gave up an average of 9.2 points per game.
The most points they gave up to anyone in any of those 5 games is 10. (Again....many of those points, including the 7 scored by the Giants were against our scrubs)

That means during the second half of the season at home...the Vikings outscored their opponents by an average of 25.2 points per game.
The SMALLEST margin of victory in any of those games was 17 points. (27-10 against the Lions)
(and that is while giving their 2nd and 3rd stringers significant playing time in all 5 games)

Now let's look at the other side of this....because not only are the Vikings playing at home...but the Cowboys are playing on the road.

During the last 8 games of the season, the Cowboys had 4 road games.

Their win/loss record in those 4 games is 2-2 (50%)

In those 4 games they scored an average of 18 points per game.
The most points they scored in any one of those games is 24 points (3 full points less than the fewest points the Vikings scored in any of those home games during the same stretch)

In those same 4 road games they gave up an average of 16.25 points per game.

Meaning they have an average margin of Victory of 1.75 points per game while playing on the road over the second half of the season.


So...let's put these stats side by side and see which team given the current situation (Vikings @ home....Cowboys on the road) looks better.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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The Vikings are mentally weak. I can't see them beating us. As far as confidence goes, ours is legit... theirs is fake. Favre is saying that losing to us will be a shock, but I don't think he really believes that. He's just saying that. Otherwise, why would he follow that up by saying the Cowboys have a ton of confidence and have been playing well for weeks now, and are peaking at the right time? He's saying tough words, but he knows losing to us is a real possibility. That's why I say their confidence is fake.

Our guys know we'll bring the ruckus! Both sides of the ball feel unstoppable.
We have 9 probowlers and a hall of fame QB and we're playing at home where over the last 5 games we have destroyed every team we play by an average of more then 25 points. Yea I'd say our confidence is fake:roll:
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Stole this off another board but it's impressive.



OK guys.....I'm tired of hearing about the Vikings second half collapse, and about the Cowboys being the hottest team in the NFL right now.

OK...let's assume the Vikings were better in the first half than they were in the second half.

We all know the Vikings played totally different at home compared to on the road during that second half.....but does anyone really have a feel for how much different?

Taking ONLY the 2nd half games that were played at home...here are some numbers to let you know just how dominant the Vikings have been on their home turf over this stretch.

The Vikings played 5 games at home during the last 8 games of the season:

They won all 5 games (indeed they are undefeated in all 8 home games this year....but since the official story line is about the Vikings falling apart the 2nd half I am concentrating only on those games)

In those 5 home games the Vikings scored an average of 34.4 points per game.
The fewest points they scored in any of those 5 games is 27. (T. Jackson and the 2nd stringers got playing time in the 2nd half of all 5 games....so I think it's safe to assume more points could have been had.)

In those same 5 home games the Vikings gave up an average of 9.2 points per game.
The most points they gave up to anyone in any of those 5 games is 10. (Again....many of those points, including the 7 scored by the Giants were against our scrubs)

That means during the second half of the season at home...the Vikings outscored their opponents by an average of 25.2 points per game.
The SMALLEST margin of victory in any of those games was 17 points. (27-10 against the Lions)
(and that is while giving their 2nd and 3rd stringers significant playing time in all 5 games)

Now let's look at the other side of this....because not only are the Vikings playing at home...but the Cowboys are playing on the road.

During the last 8 games of the season, the Cowboys had 4 road games.

Their win/loss record in those 4 games is 2-2 (50%)

In those 4 games they scored an average of 18 points per game.
The most points they scored in any one of those games is 24 points (3 full points less than the fewest points the Vikings scored in any of those home games during the same stretch)

In those same 4 road games they gave up an average of 16.25 points per game.

Meaning they have an average margin of Victory of 1.75 points per game while playing on the road over the second half of the season.


So...let's put these stats side by side and see which team given the current situation (Vikings @ home....Cowboys on the road) looks better.
Yeah lets look at those home opponents....Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Cincinnati and the Giants who had no interest in playing another game. Ummmm where am I supposed to be impressed? Want to talk about those 3 losses in the last 4? No? Didnt think so.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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We have 9 probowlers and a hall of fame QB and we're playing at home where over the last 5 games we have destroyed every team we play by an average of more then 25 points. Yea I'd say our confidence is fake:roll:
Sounds like your trying to convince yourself. You have not played a team like ours all year. Hope your ready....
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Favre is saying that losing to us will be a shock, but I don't think he really believes that. He's just saying that. Otherwise, why would he follow that up by saying the Cowboys have a ton of confidence and have been playing well for weeks now, and are peaking at the right time? He's saying tough words, but he knows losing to us is a real possibility. That's why I say their confidence is fake.
Overconfidence is one thing, underestimating your opponent is another & the fastest way to lose I think of.

Favre has had this reputation since his Southern Miss days as a 4th qtr. comeback kind of QB, just keep the score within 6 points & Favre will bring them back to beat you. I watched the 9ers @ Minnesota earlier this yr, Singletary came up with a brilliant defensive scheme that kept Favre guessing all game, until that last drive, TD pass FTW in the waning seconds right on the tiptoes of the WR on the end line, Lewis the 49er safety just watched it happen a step away, sank the 9ers whole season for road games in many ways. Moral of the story here is not to get into this situation to start with, but Dallas has to get that early lead to take the home crowd out of it & the defense has to hold that lead.

Sounds simple but realize that winning on the road in the playoffs has the odds against you. Philly gave up umpteen turnovers to Dallas last Saturday, I can't expect the Vikings to be so generous.

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Old 01-14-2010, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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TOugh game for us guys.

This is a great home team.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Lol, Dallas has the following Pro Bowlers:

Romo
Barber
Witten
Flozell
Gurode
Davis
Austin
R. Williams
Ware
Ratliff
Brooking
Hamlin
Newman
McBriar

That's 14 Pro Bowlers. And that doesn't count Mike Jenkins, Anthony Spencer and Felix Jones, who you could make an argument are our 3 best players over the last 4 games.


So what is the relevance of this? I do not know. Which is why I would like to know why you brought it up.


The game will be played between the lines. The post above is ludicrous, because what happened 8 weeks ago is holds very little bearing on what will happen this weekend. Bottom line is that the Cowboys have better players who are playing better football, and that has finally begun to show up. Minnesota can surely win, but if they do there's a great chance that it will be a result of Wade Phillips' inadequacies.

Also, another thing that is really funny. Here is the schedule each team played:

Dallas on the road:

@ GB
@ NYG
@ NO
@ Wash


Minn

vs. Det
vs. Chi
vs. Sea
vs. Cin
vs. NYG


As you can see, its pretty clear that Dallas' opponents were much more formidably than the trash that Minnesota faced. Detroit is either the worst or 2nd worst team in the league and coming off a winless season. Chicago is awful, especially on the road. Sea is a bottom 5 team. Cincy is very offensively challenged and heavily reliant upon a defense that forces TOs and keeps thing close. Still, they were the one playoff team who had no business being in it, and weren't measurably better than the worst team in the NFC East, the Redskins. The Giants were a good team early, but began to fall apart. By the time the Vikings played them they had packed it in in a big way and had no interest in playing with any pride or passion.


Meanwhile, Dallas played what was, going into the game, considered to be the best team in the league by far, coming off a game in which they demolished Tom Brady and the Pats, at home, sporting the 2nd best scoring offense (up to that point) of all time, with the front runner for MVP at QB and a very opportunistic defense which was piling up takeaways. They not only won, they dominated, and held NO's offense to a season low in points.

Washington has a very good defense. They can, and have, play with any team in the league as long as their offense doesn't hand the game over by throwing the ball away. They played an excellent defensive game, but ultimately their lack of O and Dallas sensational defensive play cost them any shot at winning.

NY at home in week 11 was a much different team than they were on the road in week 17. It doesn't take a Football Scientist to know that.

GB, probably Dallas' worst game of the season, was a dogfight which was swung by a blatantly missed fumble call that could not be challenged. Even so, Dallas kept them to 17 points AT HOME, 7 of which were gifted to them by the referees. But the offense did play very poorly.



Anyway, we can sit and twist stats all day long. I can post the last 4 games by each team and show that, against NO, Wash, PHI and PHI, Dallas averaged scoring 24.75 ppg while giving up 7.75 for an average margin of victory of 17ppg, with two games coming on the road. Dallas was 4-0 during this stretch against 3 playoff teams, including the #1 seed in the conference, against teams with a composite record of 39-20 going into each game.

Minny, meanwhile, averaged 27.75 and gave up 19.75 for an average margin of 8.0 versus Cincinnati, Carolina, Chicago, and NY going 2-2 against teams with a composite 27-27 record. Take out the final game against a belly-up NY team and those numbers get very ugly indeed, going to 22.3scored/24.0allowed against teams with a 19-20 record and going 1-2...should I continue?


Over the course of the season, the Vikings were probably the slightly better team. Dallas played better in the second half, Minny better in the 1st half. Recency bias gives Dallas the advantage in most people's minds. It doesn't help that Minnesota played a pathetically easy schedule, either.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah lets look at those home opponents....Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Cincinnati and the Giants who had no interest in playing another game. Ummmm where am I supposed to be impressed? Want to talk about those 3 losses in the last 4? No? Didnt think so.
Those loses were on the road and we already had the division wrapped up. Care to talk about the 5 Dallas losses?
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like your trying to convince yourself. You have not played a team like ours all year. Hope your ready....
Actually yes we have. We played the Packers twice and crushed them both times.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Lol, Dallas has the following Pro Bowlers:

Romo
Barber
Witten
Flozell
Gurode
Davis
Austin
R. Williams
Ware
Ratliff
Brooking
Hamlin
Newman
McBriar

That's 14 Pro Bowlers. And that doesn't count Mike Jenkins, Anthony Spencer and Felix Jones, who you could make an argument are our 3 best players over the last 4 games.

You lost me there bud. Just looked at the probowl roster and I'm not seeing half those guys on it. We're not talking former pro bowlers here.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Those loses were on the road and we already had the division wrapped up. Care to talk about the 5 Dallas losses?
You didnt have home field wrapped up though did you? You had plenty to play for and got your asses handed to you. Funny even your own boys told you to take those MEANINGLESS stats elsewhere. Go away troll, we dont want to hear it. See you Sunday.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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There is some ridiculous talk about Pro Bowlers going on here that we need to defuse. Let's just stop. Talent wise, both teams are talented.

This is going to come down to who makes the other guy submit first. Prior to the Giants win, Minnesota was REELIN'. A win over the lowly Giants shouldn't prop them back up. If it has... there's another sense of fake confidence that I was referring to earlier.

Both teams have the ability to win. I just think honestly, that Dallas is for the first time in a long time.... 100% legit about their confidence and mental toughness. I have some question marks about the Vikings... Their biggest advantage is Home Field. That says a lot about the rest of their team.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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The Vikings are talented, and they shouldn't be taken lightly. They are the number two seed for a reason, and Dallas needs to bring their A game to an environment that favors the home team. I think that Dallas takes it though. I say it'll be 27-13, and it will be a long game of passes. I think Dallas shuts down Minnesota's running game early, and Childress gets a little too pass happy.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like your trying to convince yourself. You have not played a team like ours all year. Hope your ready....

LOL, how about the Packers? We beat them twice and they embarrassed you guys.


That's fine though, just fall into your false sense of security....It's going to be a great game on Sunday. Only 3 of our 8 home games this year have been close and two of those were wins over playoff teams.

Edit- Sorry if this is trolling but the notion that the Vikings are going up against the "big bad" Cowboys this week is getting a little tired. I don't see any way this game doesn't go down to the wire.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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LOL, how about the Packers? We beat them twice and they embarrassed you guys.


That's fine though, just fall into your false sense of security....It's going to be a great game on Sunday. Only 3 of our 8 home games this year have been close and two of those were wins over playoff teams.

Edit- Sorry if this is trolling but the notion that the Vikings are going up against the "big bad" Cowboys this week is getting a little tired. I don't see any way this game doesn't go down to the wire.
Yup, GB beat us. We are playing much better now than we were at that time. Nobody said we are the "big bad" Cowboys. I never went into your thread and said we are going to do this or that. I was just responding to your Minny fan that came over to OUR thread talking smack. I agree its going to come down to the wire. I think your team is great and IMO the winner of this game goes to the SB.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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LOL, how about the Packers? We beat them twice and they embarrassed you guys.


That's fine though, just fall into your false sense of security....It's going to be a great game on Sunday. Only 3 of our 8 home games this year have been close and two of those were wins over playoff teams.

Edit- Sorry if this is trolling but the notion that the Vikings are going up against the "big bad" Cowboys this week is getting a little tired. I don't see any way this game doesn't go down to the wire.
Last I checked... the Cowboys were the underdog team.

Doesn't matter that you beat GB one single bit. It's a common frame of logic that people use to give them a false sense of predicting things to come. The worst gamblers use the same logic. I mean if that's the way you think and there's no convincing you otherwise, then fine... Just know that the Eagles fans thought the same thing about thinking they'll beat us after they beat the Giants twice and we lost to the Giants twice.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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FWIW, I love the last 3 drafts for MN.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Just because we lost to the Pack and you beat them doesnt mean you're better than us. lol. We lost to the Giants twice, who beat the Eagles twice, who lost to us three times. So, that's completely flawed.

The Packers match up wasnt a good one for us, we match up much better against the Vikings.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Just because we lost to the Pack and you beat them doesnt mean you're better than us. lol. We lost to the Giants twice, who beat the Eagles twice, who lost to us three times. So, that's completely flawed.

The Packers match up wasnt a good match up for us, we match up much better against the Vikings.
The Pack was one of JG's worst games ever.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Last I checked... the Cowboys were the underdog team.

Doesn't matter that you beat GB one single bit. It's a common frame of logic that people use to give them a false sense of predicting things to come. The worst gamblers use the same logic. I mean if that's the way you think and there's no convincing you otherwise, then fine... Just know that the Eagles fans thought the same thing about thinking they'll beat us after they beat the Giants twice and we lost to the Giants twice.
Obviously your the underdog because we're at home, road teams are hardly ever favored in the playoffs, but the home team is given 3 points in the spread and we're only favored by -2.5. And have you watched ESPN at all this week? Everyone is picking Dallas. The Cowboys are the sexy pick, not the Vikings.

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Just because we lost to the Pack and you beat them doesnt mean you're better than us. lol. We lost to the Giants twice, who beat the Eagles twice, who lost to us three times. So, that's completely flawed.

The Packers match up wasnt a good match up for us, we match up much better against the Vikings.

I didn't say it made us better at all, obviously the transitive property doesn't work in sports. I was just responding to pocketaces who claimed we hadn't played anyone like you all season, which is also flawed.

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Old 01-14-2010, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Edit- Sorry if this is trolling but the notion that the Vikings are going up against the "big bad" Cowboys this week is getting a little tired. I don't see any way this game doesn't go down to the wire.
It's not trolling, least I don't take it as that, but why does it bother you that people are picking the Cowboys? This happens every year. Teams with a bye who came into the playoffs limping, facing a team on a streak who is playing great, generally most people tend to lean towards the wildcard team that is 'hot' right now, but even with that said were still underdogs.


Most people who even picked Dallas said it was going down to the wire, I don't think anyone is expecting a blowout either way, but I don't know where you get this "big bad Cowboys" notion or why it bothers you, it has nothing to do with the outcome of the game at all who people pick on ESPN so I don't know why people put so much stock into that stuff anyway.


I'm sure most Vikes fans think they'll win, and Cowboy fans think they'll win too, as you should at this point in the year.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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It's not trolling, least I don't take it as that, but why does it bother you that people are picking the Cowboys? This happens every year. Teams with a bye who came into the playoffs limping, facing a team on a streak who is playing great, generally most people tend to lean towards the wildcard team that is 'hot' right now, but even with that said were still underdogs.


Most people who even picked Dallas said it was going down to the wire, I don't think anyone is expecting a blowout either way, but I don't know where you get this "big bad Cowboys" notion or why it bothers you, it has nothing to do with the outcome of the game at all who people pick on ESPN so I don't know why people put so much stock into that stuff anyway.


I'm sure most Vikes fans think they'll win, and Cowboy fans think they'll win too, as you should at this point in the year.

Doesn't bother me at all. This has strayed so far from the original point haha. pocketaces just said we hadn't played anyone like you all year and I said we had, and D-Unit and MOTH both took it as me saying that because we beat GB we're better than you.

The ESPN stuff really shouldn't bother me, but being that we've had 2 weeks off they've been all I've had to go off of haha.
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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This isn't some kind of number crunching game. These are 2 even teams. The Vikings have handily beaten the Packers twice, should have smashed the Ravens, crushed the Bengals, etc. These are trademark wins.

Dallas has some great wins, too, @ NO, beating Philly 3 times, etc.

To quote the great Charlie Weis, no team has a decided schematic advantage in this game. Does Dallas do some things that aren't in the Vikings favor? Sure, they rush the passer well and beat teams in the short, medium, and long passing games. But Minnesota also does some things that hurts Dallas. Aka rush the passer and shown the ability to be balanced. We've also got players that hit the 3 passing zones in Shiancoe, Harvin, and Sidney Rice (who if you didn't notice, was amazing this year)

This is definitely rambling, but my point is, it's not like we're "better" than Dallas or Dallas is "better" than us, but rather both teams need to first devise then properly execute a game plan and then adjust accordingly. Just like any other game. I think that most Vikings fans are upset about is the fact that everybody's picking Dallas when Vikings do indeed have a legitimate case about being confident themselves.

Sorry, that was one big thought rolled into one. If anyone followed that, you're a very good reader.
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