Golden Tate Sucks

[BrabbitMcRabbit]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Ward is listed at 6'0" 205. That is not undersized.

People are in denial about Tate. They constantly compare him to players who really don't resemble him (Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Hines Ward, Chad Johnson). And then they accuse me of not understanding football.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Ward is listed at 6'0" 205. That is not undersized.

People are in denial about Tate. They constantly compare him to players who really don't resemble him (Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Hines Ward, Chad Johnson). And then they accuse me of not understanding football.

Have you seen Hakeem Nicks play? Tate plays exactly like a smaller version of Nicks.

[BrabbitMcRabbit]

Originally Posted by TitansCJftw

ms rabbit must have had her team victimized by tate this year this thread gets me weak hahah

Actually, that's true. I'm a Stanford fan and he definitely had a good game against us. Of course, this is the same secondary that made Ryan Broyles (another midget scrub) look like Jerry Rice.

I don't look at stat lines as much as I look at how a player got those stats. Neither one of these guys really showed me next level physical tools.

[BrabbitMcRabbit]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Have you seen Hakeem Nicks play? Tate plays exactly like a smaller version of Nicks.

Yes, I was a big fan of Nicks last season. I had him ranked as the #3 WR in the class behind Crabtree and Harvin.

Saying Tate plays exactly like a smaller version of Nicks is about as helpful as saying Jarret Dillard plays like a smaller version of Sidney Rice. It might be true, but it's missing the point. Size is part of what makes Nicks effective. At a long 6'0.5" 212, he has the size and strength to physically overpower defensive backs. Add in good hands and athleticism, and you've got a great possession WR in the mold of Cotchery/Ward/Boldin. Take away Hakeem's size and he wouldn't be on an NFL roster.

Tate might have the same hands/toughness as Nicks, but he's missing the size. So what you're looking at is a 5'10" possession WR. Those guys don't tend to fare very well in the NFL (see: Josh Reed). You could point towards Derrick Mason as a cause for optimism, but I don't think Tate can match his burst. He has a small frame and he doesn't have the raw athletic gifts to overcome it. He's not Steve Smith or Santana Moss. He doesn't have that kind of juice. He's basically an overhyped version of Davone Bess or Josh Reed.

[Dark Knight01]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Golden "jumbo thighs" Tate is the most overrated WR in this draft. I have seen numerous people compare him to Steve Smith. My question is this:

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Steve Smith is short, but he's an EXPLOSIVE athlete with low 4.4 speed and elite hops. Golden Tate is also short, but unlike Smith he's slower than a mud sloth covered in molasses. Without great size or burst, Tate will have no advantages against pro corners, who will be faster than him and just as strong. Tate will be a huge bust just like Josh Reed, another college superstar who had neither the size nor speed to beat coverage in the NFL. Can you say slot WR?

I see Tate as more of a Hines Ward type of WR.

Certainly not like Steve Smith.

[Bengals78]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight01

I see Tate as more of a Hines Ward type of WR.

Certainly not like Steve Smith.

But he is shortzzzz
must be Steve Smithzzz

[prock]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Yes, I was a big fan of Nicks last season. I had him ranked as the #3 WR in the class behind Crabtree and Harvin.

Saying Tate plays exactly like a smaller version of Nicks is about as helpful as saying Jarret Dillard plays like a smaller version of Sidney Rice. It might be true, but it's missing the point. Size is part of what makes Nicks effective. At a long 6'0.5" 212, he has the size and strength to physically overpower defensive backs. Add in good hands and athleticism, and you've got a great possession WR in the mold of Cotchery/Ward/Boldin. Take away Hakeem's size and he wouldn't be on an NFL roster.

Tate might have the same hands/toughness as Nicks, but he's missing the size. So what you're looking at is a 5'10" possession WR. Those guys don't tend to fare very well in the NFL (see: Josh Reed). You could point towards Derrick Mason as a cause for optimism, but I don't think Tate can match his burst. He has a small frame and he doesn't have the raw athletic gifts to overcome it. He's not Steve Smith or Santana Moss. He doesn't have that kind of juice. He's basically an overhyped version of Davone Bess or Josh Reed.

tate has masons burst for sure. and really, 2 inches doesnt make that much of a difference. if you dont draft a guy solely because he is two too short, that is ignorant. you admit he has all the exact same skills as nicks, but only two inches shorter. that really doesnt make that big of a difference. the guy is a football player. dont get hung up on the measurables and watch the tape.

[yourfavestoner]

When we refer to Steve Smith, are we referring to the diminutive receiver for the Panthers, or the diminuitve, slow, possession Pro Bowl receiver for the Giants?

[Giantsfan1080]

Golden Tate reminds me of Steve Smith(Giants). I think most people are comparing to Steve Smith(Panthers) though.

[H.O.O.D]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Ward is listed at 6'0" 205. That is not undersized.

People are in denial about Tate. They constantly compare him to players who really don't resemble him (Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Hines Ward, Chad Johnson). And then they accuse me of not understanding football.

So let me get this straight, Tate is small and slow. Tate is 5"11 195. Ward is 6"0 205 pounds. So if Tate was 1 inch taller and 10 pounds heavier he would not be undersized ?

I hope he gets drafted to your favorite NFL team and when he blows up you can sign up under the new guise Cheddar Bob.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Some around here are seriously underrating Tate's pure athleticism, IMO.
He wasn't catching 5 - 10 yard hitches all season. Weis had Tate running deeper 20 + yard routes and he torched entire secondaries, things that a possession receiver simply cannot do.

The dude is a game breaker, point blank. Josh Reed doesn't have near the physicality or deep speed that Tate has.
He was switched to WR at ND for a reason, and it wasn't because he was slow.

[H.O.O.D]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Also, Welker is basically a product of a friendly system where a HoF WR draws away most of the coverage and a HoF QB feeds him lots of short targets.

When he was on the Dolphins he was just a guy. That's what Tate will be in the NFL.

Just a guy who caught nearly 70 balls for almost 700 yards with Joey Harrington as his QB during his last year in Miami.

[Finz99]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

This will be fun to bump in a couple years when he's a slot WR for the Bills putting up 500 yards every season.

A good rule of thumb with WR prospects:

- If you're small, you'd better be fast.
- If you're slow, you'd better be big.

Tate is both small and slow. He will be eaten alive by NFL corners who will be faster than him and just as strong.

I'm not surprised that some people can't see it in the highlights. One thing I've noticed following the draft throughout the years is that two people can watch the exact same footage and draw opposite conclusions. No biggie. I don't doubt that Tate will be a pretty high pick. I just think he's destined for mediocrity in the NFL. He's not one of the top 5 WRs on my board and maybe not even one of the top 10. I think he's a classic example of a college star whose lack of ideal physical skills will relegate him to a supporting role at the next level. We'll just have to wait and see.

Yea man! Exactly! I mean, look at Ted Ginn, he obviously shows that speed is the total win of football!

I'm guessing you had Ted Ginn in the top 3 when he came out? Because your love for speed is crazy.

Everyone is so gung-ho on speed in the NFL, yet there are plenty of WR's/other players that have made it work without this 4.0 speed that everybody seems to want. If you don't believe that physicality is a major importance for a WR to exceed then you are mistaken. And that physicality will allow Tate to be a good WR in the NFL.

And also, when you argue, try not to say childish things like "diaper full of crap," or "midget rodeo clown." It makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

[wogitalia]

Be interested to see the reach on Tate.

Height is such a trivial thing for players. Outside of the QB who does need to see over his line, it basically means nothing(TE I can see the same need in reverse). Reach is far more important, it's not like you catch the ball with the top of your head, normally anyway. You use your hands away from your body.

Tate to me screams of a guy who does just that, he catches the ball away from his body, which effectively nullifies the height he may give up. In that regard he is similar to Steve Smith of the Panthers. Also... since when is 5'11 undersized anyway, that is just about spot on average for a WR and as big as the average CB.

[Saints-Tigers]

Tate doesn't look slow to me.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Finz99

I'm guessing you had Ted Ginn in the top 3 when he came out? Because your love for speed is crazy.

Not really saying much... pretty sure a massive majority had Ginn as a top 3 receiver. I know I had him as my 2/3 with Sidney Rice behind Megatron and most of this board was pretty much in agreement that he was a top 3 receiver. I didn't have this account back then obviously.

[H.O.O.D]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

Not really saying much... pretty sure a massive majority had Ginn as a top 3 receiver. I know I had him as my 2/3 with Sidney Rice behind Megatron and most of this board was pretty much in agreement that he was a top 3 receiver. I didn't have this account back then obviously.

Maybe top 5 but the consensus on the top 3 was Megatron, Meachem and Bowe.

[Finz99]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

Not really saying much... pretty sure a massive majority had Ginn as a top 3 receiver. I know I had him as my 2/3 with Sidney Rice behind Megatron and most of this board was pretty much in agreement that he was a top 3 receiver. I didn't have this account back then obviously.

I meant top 3 overall in the draft...you misread what I meant by that line.

[BrabbitMcRabbit]

No, I never liked Ginn. He was purely a straight line guy with very poor change of direction and route running. He was too long-legged. I also had Crabtree, Harvin, Nicks, and Maclin ranked ahead of DHB last year even though he was big and fast on paper. I'm not someone who only looks at the measurables.

Just because I acknowledge that small receivers don't excel in the NFL unless they have elite speed doesn't mean I think speed is everything. Obviously that's not the case.

However, when you are only about 5'10" and you don't have the frame of a possession WR, you have to compensate with exceptional burst and mobility. The reason guys like DeSean Jackson, Santana Moss, and Santonio Holmes can be successful at their size is because they're very explosive. I don't see that same elite burst in Tate. I think he's a size/speed tweener. He's not big enough to be a possession WR and he's not fast enough to be a speed WR.

I'm aware that this is a controversial opinion. A lot of people have Tate ranked as one of the top 2-3 receivers in this draft. I think they're mistaken. I think Tate is the most overrated skill player in this draft (outside of the QBs). If I had said the same thing about Peter Warrick and Josh Reed when they were prospects, I'm sure there would've been plenty of people insisting that I was wrong. Only time will tell.

[afftbl10]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

Yea, if he's built like Dez or Bay-Bay. Tate is built like a midget rodeo clown.

Chad Johnson has very good game speed. There are no similarities between him and Tate.

Look how slow Tate is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvGvj_JTiuc

He runs like he's got a diaper full of crap. Really not an impressive athlete and the Steve Smith comparisons are LOL bad.

Are we watching the same video? He looks very explosive to me.

[CC.SD]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

No, I never liked Ginn. He was purely a straight line guy with very poor change of direction and route running. He was too long-legged. I also had Crabtree, Harvin, Nicks, and Maclin ranked ahead of DHB last year even though he was big and fast on paper. I'm not someone who only looks at the measurables.

I feel like everyone except Al Davis felt this way as well.

[Staubach12]

I think it'd be a good idea for people to let this die. Either Rabbit doesn't understand football or he's trollin'. Either way, he doesn't deserve attention.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by BrabbitMcRabbit

No, I never liked Ginn. He was purely a straight line guy with very poor change of direction and route running. He was too long-legged. I also had Crabtree, Harvin, Nicks, and Maclin ranked ahead of DHB last year even though he was big and fast on paper. I'm not someone who only looks at the measurables.

Just because I acknowledge that small receivers don't excel in the NFL unless they have elite speed doesn't mean I think speed is everything. Obviously that's not the case.

However, when you are only about 5'10" and you don't have the frame of a possession WR, you have to compensate with exceptional burst and mobility. The reason guys like DeSean Jackson, Santana Moss, and Santonio Holmes can be successful at their size is because they're very explosive. I don't see that same elite burst in Tate. I think he's a size/speed tweener. He's not big enough to be a possession WR and he's not fast enough to be a speed WR.

I'm aware that this is a controversial opinion. A lot of people have Tate ranked as one of the top 2-3 receivers in this draft. I think they're mistaken. I think Tate is the most overrated skill player in this draft (outside of the QBs). If I had said the same thing about Peter Warrick and Josh Reed when they were prospects, I'm sure there would've been plenty of people insisting that I was wrong. Only time will tell.

True, only time will tell.
Every year, there are a large handful of busts. If we knew ahead of time they'd become busts, then they wouldn't take him in the first or second round. I respect a guy here going out on that limb ahead of time and not after the fact.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by nicker

Anthony Gonzales career numbers, 3 years, 96 receptions, 1240 yards, and 7 touch downs.... Thanks for making my point for me, haha. But seriously, this is exactly the kind of pick I'm talking about, a guy that IMO isn't talented enough to ever be a number one. Its a waste of a pick.

Reggie Wayne was drafted as a #2... for that matter the Rams picked Torry Holt when they already had Isaac Bruce. What about Plaxico Burress AND Santonio Holmes, didn't the Steelers already have Ward? Alvin Harper was taken to be a #2, and he was a good... #2.

[brasho]

I just watched the clip and I will restate again... Golden Tate is VERY similiar to former Redskin/Cardinal WR Gary Clark. Clark had a fantastic career and perhaps he was never a #1, but he was a go-to WR his entire career making a living being tough and running every route.