MLB Discussion Thread - Page 1097

Hines · 07-23-2012, 01:10 PM

Looks like Ryan Dempster to the Braves for Randall Delgado. I'm not sure if that's all the Cubs are getting, but that's the name being thrown around.

Babylon · 07-23-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

I'd like to point out that if Bonds, Piazza, and Clemens don't make the hall of fame next year, it should just be torn down and removed from existence.

I thought it was already torn down when Rose didn't make it.

BloodBrother · 07-23-2012, 01:53 PM

IT's being confirmed that it's Dempster for Delgado

that's a great return for the Cubs. To get a prospect of that caliber for a 35 year old SP who is a FA after the season is nothing short of amazing

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

I thought it was already torn down when Rose didn't make it.

There's a HUGE difference between betting on baseball, which is easily the worst thing you can do when it relates to the sport, and what Bonds/Clemens did. Plus, Bonds and Clemens were much better players than Rose was.

marshallb · 07-23-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodBrother

IT's being confirmed that it's Dempster for Delgado

that's a great return for the Cubs. To get a prospect of that caliber for a 35 year old SP who is a FA after the season is nothing short of amazing

Yea it is, especially considering that the Braves can't get any compensation pick for Dempster.

Babylon · 07-23-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

There's a HUGE difference between betting on baseball, which is easily the worst thing you can do when it relates to the sport, and what Bonds/Clemens did. Plus, Bonds and Clemens were much better players than Rose was.

Irrelevant as to whether Bonds was better than Rose as a baseball player. I tend to think he wasn't.

As for betting vs steroids you could argue that Rose might have actually put up better numbers had he not bet on games when you consider he might have backed off in some of those games he gambled on.

Big picture i'm not advocating for Rose to be in, just saying if he isnt the others shouldn't be either.

bearsfan_51 · 07-23-2012, 02:01 PM

I really don't see a huge difference between steroid use and betting on the game. Both undermine the general competitiveness and fairness of the sport.

I wouldn't let any of them in, and I honestly don't understand why anyone cares considering what massive assholes all three of them seem to be.

Giantsfan1080 · 07-23-2012, 02:02 PM

Huh?? Piazza is one of the furthest things from an asshole.

Babylon · 07-23-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Huh?? Piazza is one of the furthest things from an asshole.

I think the 3 were Bonds, Rose and Clemens.

Giantsfan1080 · 07-23-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

I think the 3 were Bonds, Rose and Clemens.

Ahh right on then BF!!

Hines · 07-23-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodBrother

IT's being confirmed that it's Dempster for Delgado

that's a great return for the Cubs. To get a prospect of that caliber for a 35 year old SP who is a FA after the season is nothing short of amazing

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshallb

Yea it is, especially considering that the Braves can't get any compensation pick for Dempster.

I think Dempster re-ups there, but still a great deal for the Cubs.

There are now rumors of Zach Lee going to the Cubs for Matt Garza. That'd be a nice coup as well.

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Irrelevant as to whether Bonds was better than Rose as a baseball player. I tend to think he wasn't.

As for betting vs steroids you could argue that Rose might have actually put up better numbers had he not bet on games when you consider he might have backed off in some of those games he gambled on.

Big picture i'm not advocating for Rose to be in, just saying if he isnt the others shouldn't be either.

He didn't bet until he was a coach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I really don't see a huge difference between steroid use and betting on the game. Both undermine the general competitiveness and fairness of the sport.

I wouldn't let any of them in, and I honestly don't understand why anyone cares considering what massive assholes all three of them seem to be.

Oh shut up, there is no actual evidence that directly links enhanced performance with the use of steroids. It's just hearsay and could easily be a placebo effect. Plus, Bonds is one of the greatest players of all time, and being one of the biggest assholes of all time didn't stop the HOF from electing Ty Cobb as a HOF.

Bengals78 · 07-23-2012, 02:11 PM

This dude sucked:

Major League records:
Most career hits – 4,256
Most career outs – 10,328
Most career games played – 3,562
Most career at bats – 14,053
Most career singles – 3,215
Most career runs by a switch hitter – 2,165
Most career doubles by a switch hitter – 746
Most career walks by a switch hitter – 1,566
Most career total bases by a switch hitter – 5,752
Most seasons of 200 or more hits – 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits – 23
Most consecutive seasons with 600 or more at bats – 13 (1968–1980)
Most seasons with 600 at bats – 17
Most seasons with 150 or more games played – 17
Most seasons with 100 or more games played – 23
Record for playing in the most winning games – 1,972
Only player in major league history to play more than 500 games at five different positions – 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)
National League records:
Most years played – 24
Most consecutive years played – 24
Most career runs – 2,165
Most career doubles – 746
Most career games with 5 or more hits – 10
Modern (post-1900) NL record for longest consecutive game hitting streak NL – 44
Modern record for most consecutive hitting streaks of 20 or more games – 7

And I have met Pete more than a few times. He is a genuinely nice guy. Especially because we are both from the same side of Cincinnati, my original home runs on the street adjacent to his. My sister was in Las Vegas on vacation and Pete was there signing autographs and he saw the Reds hat her friend had on, yelled at them to come over (into an area you were supposed to pay money for) and asked them all about where in Cincinnati the were from, talked about what he misses most when he is out of town etc.

And as for the actual reports on Rose's gambling, they never found evidence that showed without a doubt he gambled on baseball, specifically against the Reds. It wasnt until 2004(I think) he admitted to gambling at all on baseball. He claims he never bet against the Reds. And having met him, I would believe him simply because he is the type of guy who would play you in any game if you said you could best him at it.

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 02:13 PM

I'm not saying he's not a HOF, and I know he only bet on his team as a coach, but he's not as good of a player as Bonds or Clemens were. It's just a fact.

Bengals78 · 07-23-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

I'm not saying he's not a HOF, and I know he only bet on his team as a coach, but he's not as good of a player as Bonds or Clemens were. It's just a fact.

Except it is not. If it was, people would not debate it. It is your opinion.

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals78

Except it is not. If it was, people would not debate it. It is your opinion.

Are you seriously going to debate that he's better than Bonds? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Bengals78 · 07-23-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Are you seriously going to debate that he's better than Bonds? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Uh oh. Someone disagreed with Brody....

comahan · 07-23-2012, 02:25 PM

Bonds and Clemens are ABSOLUTELY better than Rose. Rose was great, but no.

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals78

Uh oh. Someone disagreed with Brody....

Bonds got on base more, was a better fielder/won more gold gloves, was a better baserunner, had considerably more power, won more MVPs...I seriously have absolutely no clue how you could see Rose as a better player than Bonds. It's ******* ridiculous.

Babylon · 07-23-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Bonds got on base more, was a better fielder/won more gold gloves, was a better baserunner, had considerably more power, won more MVPs...I seriously have absolutely no clue how you could see Rose as a better player than Bonds. It's ******* ridiculous.

Take away the roids and it's not even an issue, correct?

mqtirishfan · 07-23-2012, 02:32 PM

Great, Epstein begins his conquest of the NL now. Zach Lee and Randall Delgado are very good rotation pieces that aren't ready to help this team win yet, meaning he gets to tank his way up the draft board.

Still, Dempster will be more effective than Delgado in the playoff rotation, and that's all that matters this year for Atlanta. There is still plenty of pitching depth in the Atlanta system, even without Vizzy and Julio dropping.

Brodeur · 07-23-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Take away the roids and it's not even an issue, correct?

Take away the roids and you have a 3 time MVP and the best player of the 90s. And again, I legitimately don't see any direct correlation between roids and performance like so many others do. Bonds was the hardest working player in baseball, and he was absolutely obsessed with being the best.

Bengals78 · 07-23-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Bonds got on base more, was a better fielder/won more gold gloves, was a better baserunner, had considerably more power, won more MVPs...I seriously have absolutely no clue how you could see Rose as a better player than Bonds. It's ******* ridiculous.

Rose didn't have to cheat to get to where he got.

comahan · 07-23-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqtirishfan

Great, Epstein begins his conquest of the NL now. Zach Lee and Randall Delgado are very good rotation pieces that aren't ready to help this team win yet, meaning he gets to tank his way up the draft board.

Still, Dempster will be more effective than Delgado in the playoff rotation, and that's all that matters this year for Atlanta. There is still plenty of pitching depth in the Atlanta system, even without Vizzy and Julio dropping.

He'll have to beat out Houston for that, who possesses about 3 players who are legitimate major leaguers.

DeepThreat · 07-23-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals78

Except it is not. If it was, people would not debate it. It is your opinion.

You make all Reds fans look stupid.