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Old 07-12-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
Well, Bautista is ahead of him in basically every meaningful statistic.
Except batting average an RBI's. Which are not real good stats(I would argue batting average is. Assuming a tie in OBP, give me the guy with the higher average)obviously....but good luck convincing the voters that. Then you've got the team success thing, large market thing...it's just not a good case for Bautista right now despite him being the best hitter this year far and away. Not saying it's right, just pointing it out.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Except batting average an RBI's. Which are not real good stats(I would argue batting average is. Assuming a tie in OBP, give me the guy with the higher average)obviously....but good luck convincing the voters that. Then you've got the team success thing, large market thing...it's just not a good case for Bautista right now despite him being the best hitter this year far and away. Not saying it's right, just pointing it out.
Bautista OBP: .468
Gonzo OBP: .414

Huuuuuuuge advantage in OBP and slugging percentage, plus he plays the more difficult defensive position. The only reason he doesn't have more RBIs (horrific stat) is because he has had a good portion of the year with Yuni Escobar as the only other competent hitter in that lineup. As for batting average, who gives a rats ass with that big of a gap in OBP. There is absolutely no debate, none whatsoever. Bautista is the MVP, and it's not a race.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Bautista is the MVP. Remember he missed like 10 games so Gonzo has played more to accumulate the counting statistics.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
Well, Bautista is ahead of him in basically every meaningful statistic.
AGonz VS J.Bomb
10th...HR...1st
1st...2Bs...NA
16th...3Bs...NA
1st...Hits...10th
1st...RBI...4th
3rd...Runs...2nd
1st...BA...2nd
24th...BB...1st
3rd...OBP...1st
2nd...SLG...1st
2nd...OPS...1st

Like I said, I think it's a tight race.
I just don't see how J.Bomb is clearly better.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I just want to say that the Rangers traded Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young to the Padres for Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka. :/
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Again, I'm not disagreeing with you about the numbers or the difference in OBP(I'm aware of the difference, just pointing out that batting average does add value. Bautista is right on Gonzo's heels in that category anyway), merely pointing out the way a lot of writers do these things. As it stands right now, Toronto is under .500. Very rarely have you seen a guy win it on a team that didn't make the playoffs(Barry Bonds comes to mind and Albert Pujols too), let alone on a team with a losing record.


Again: NOT ARGUING THE STATS OR WORTHINESS! Bautista wins if we're giving the award to the right guy, but you're already hearing the buzz about how a lot of these people think.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
AGonz VS J.Bomb
10th...HR...1st
1st...2Bs...NA
16th...3Bs...NA
1st...Hits...10th
1st...RBI...4th
3rd...Runs...2nd
1st...BA...2nd
24th...BB...1st
3rd...OBP...1st
2nd...SLG...1st
2nd...OPS...1st

Like I said, I think it's a tight race.
I just don't see how J.Bomb is clearly better.
There are like 5 stats on that list that I care about, Bautista wins them all.

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Old 07-12-2011, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
AGonz VS J.Bomb
10th...HR...1st
1st...2Bs...NA
16th...3Bs...NA
1st...Hits...10th
1st...RBI...4th
3rd...Runs...2nd
1st...BA...2nd
24th...BB...1st
3rd...OBP...1st
2nd...SLG...1st
2nd...OPS...1st

Like I said, I think it's a tight race.
I just don't see how J.Bomb is clearly better.
You know all those stats that Bautista is first in? Those are the ones that actually matter. No one gives a **** about hits, RBI, doubles (seriously?), triples, batting averages, etc.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you about the numbers or the difference in OBP(I'm aware of the difference, just pointing out that batting average does add value. Bautista is right on Gonzo's heels in that category anyway), merely pointing out the way a lot of writers do these things. As it stands right now, Toronto is under .500. Very rarely have you seen a guy win it on a team that didn't make the playoffs(Barry Bonds comes to mind and Albert Pujols too), let alone on a team with a losing record.


Again: NOT ARGUING THE STATS OR WORTHINESS! Bautista wins if we're giving the award to the right guy, but you're already hearing the buzz about how a lot of these people think.

BA would only matter in this discussion if they had similar OBP's. Since there is a big disparity it's not important. Of course a base hit is slightly better than a walk (depending on the situation) but walks are also way better than outs, and Bautista walks way more.

And no one is saying that Bautista will definitely win, actually as of now I'm pretty sure Gonzalez would. We're just saying it wouldn't be right.

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Old 07-12-2011, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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If Gonzalez wins, it would be about as stupid as when Morneau won it over Mauer and Jeter and about 9 other guys more worthy.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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If Gonzalez wins, it would be about as stupid as when Morneau won it over Mauer and Jeter and about 9 other guys more worthy.

He's probably going to though, he showed great ability to be traded to a good team in the offseason. :/

That's what the voters really care about.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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I believe I specifically stated that batting average is moot because of the OBP, but if Gonzo wins the batting title, writers will jizz themselves and use it as an argument regardless of the difference in OBP.


I'm not disagreeing with anyone, I guess. I'm just saying it's hard for me to imagine them actually giving Bautista the award(either today or at the end of the season) based on things that he really can't control.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Walden can flat out blow. Nice commentary. Who was that? McCarver?
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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He's probably going to though, he showed great ability to be traded to a good team in the offseason. :/

That's what the voters really care about.
Go take Morneau's MVP trophy.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Go take Morneau's MVP trophy.

He would have won it last year anyway if not for his annual late season injury so it's alright.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I had to turn the game off. Watching the FOX broadcast was like subjecting myself to torture at the hand of Jack Bauer.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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If Gonzalez wins, it would be about as stupid as when Morneau won it over Mauer and Jeter and about 9 other guys more worthy.
Considering Gonzo is 4th in WAR and Morneau wasn't even in the team picture in 2006, I would have to disagree with you.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Considering Gonzo is 4th in WAR and Morneau wasn't even in the team picture in 2006, I would have to disagree with you.

Well there also wasn't anyone producing at Bautista's ridiculous level that year either.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Well there also wasn't anyone producing at Bautista's ridiculous level that year either.
True...but operating within the confines of the ******** rule system baseball has, Gonzo wouldn't be that bad.

Not that it really matters. Everyone knows Bautista is the best player this year. He's just not going to get recognition for it, unfortunately.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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He would have won it last year anyway if not for his annual late season injury so it's alright.
Late season? He missed like half the year.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Late season? He missed like half the year.

Mid season then. Point stands.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Boesch was a borderline MVP candidate at the halfway point last season, so...
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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I love how this is like the first time that we all get to sit down and watch a common game together all year and we're fighting about statistics and MVP awards from like five years ago. Must speak to how boring the All Star Game has become, haha.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Boesch was a borderline MVP candidate at the halfway point last season, so...

Yeah because Brennan Boesch and Justin Morneau both had the same probabilities of keeping up their pace.
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