McNabb or Kolb going to Raiders?

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Iverson put his heart on the floor, game in game out-same can't be said of Donovan.

Really? The only real thing I can think of the ball management at the end of the Superbowl, but I took that to be as much a playcalling things as anything else. There's no doubt that Donovan has brought the Eagles painfully close to great success many times, but I've never perceived a lack of effort on his part to be the thing keeping them from taking that extra step.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Really? The only real thing I can think of the ball management at the end of the Superbowl, but I took that to be as much a playcalling things as anything else. There's no doubt that Donovan has brought the Eagles painfully close to great success many times, but I've never perceived a lack of effort on his part to be the thing keeping them from taking that extra step.

Maby it's just McNabb's style of play but Iverson played every game like it was his last, Donovan...?

I've always read a perception of, this is just what I do, not who I am from McNabb. Bottom line is coming up short when it mattered. ...Or maby it's just Ai is my boy.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Maby it's just McNabb's style of play but Iverson played every game like it was his last, Donovan...?

I've always read a perception of, this is just what I do, not who I am from McNabb. Bottom line is coming up short when it mattered. ...Or maby it's just Ai is my boy.

Coming up short doesn't mean that Donovan McNabb didn't put his heart and soul into playing for the Philadelphia Eagles. The man is among arguably the most obnoxious NFL fan base and never complained for ten years. I don't see how you can question the man's desire. He's been in situations that have tested his resolve and he's responded countless times.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Thats dumb IMO, I want the players on my team to be better than the players on the other team regardless of who is suiting up for the opposition.

And I doubt Kolb falls flat on his face, its not like we're throwing someone out there who is a complete unknown, he has had some success.

After all McNabb has done for the city of Philadelphia you wouldn't wish him the best? That's heartless. I could understand if he was playing your team or standing in your team's chances of getting a title, but if it's not the case, then why not? When Joe Montana left the 49ers, fans didn't turn on him...they wished the best for his continuation of his career in Kansas City.

As for Kolb, it's really a wild card. There have been a bunch of guys who have shined in limited time...but in the end fell flat on their face when asked to take on a full time role. Billy Volek is a quick one that comes to mind.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Really? The only real thing I can think of the ball management at the end of the Superbowl, but I took that to be as much a playcalling things as anything else. There's no doubt that Donovan has brought the Eagles painfully close to great success many times, but I've never perceived a lack of effort on his part to be the thing keeping them from taking that extra step.

There isn't, McNabb is a hard worker. But in Philly, they like hard nosed players, guys that would get into brawls to win a game, they like toughness, grit and heart, its why Brian Dawkins, Jeremiah Trotter, Jon Runyan and all those players are so beloved, they played hard and put their noses to the grindstone on every single play. Its the reason why in Philly you would find that about 1/2 of them still support TO, he had that cocky, fighting attitude that Philly loved, the Eagles fans used to sing songs to TO, he is the guy who played the superbowl on one leg, TO is a legend in Philly. But with McNabb, you don't see that drive and that heart. When someone screwed up on defense you would see Dawk or Trot get in someone's face and scream and yell and you could see their desire to win written all across their faces. But when you mess up with McNabb he always gave you a little sideways look like "C'mon Man..." and then he would just laugh it off.

McNabb just never fit in with Philly's mindset, had he been in California or Florida, the fans would love him because he fits their mindset (Chargers, Dolphins, Bucs, Jags, 49ers), you know cities that are nice, relaxed and have chilled out people. But he plays in Philly, where Rocky is beloved, the fans are intense, critical and impatient. Philly would give up anything to see another year of Buddy Ryan and the defense that was anchored by Reggie White. Its craziness. And when they see McNabb throwing up on the field, choking at key moments, lining up behind the guard, not knowing there can be ties and overall just playing badly in key games, they think "Wow, this guy is soft and he is a choker." Honestly if the Eagles had Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler or Phillip Rivers, they would be happy no matter what because they're douches, they yell and scream, they get pissed off, they irritate others etc. etc. and honestly, Phillip Rivers would have a shrine in Philly already, there were so many rumors last year that the Eagles wanted Jay Cutler. Philly loves the tough guy macho image, they don't care that McNabb runs some diabetes foundation, is father of the year and is probably one of the nicest guys they will ever meet, they just don't care.

Philly is a different world, its a shark tank, you have to be mean and bite back to survive and its the reason Philly loves AI and doesn't like McNabb.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Ness

Coming up short doesn't mean that Donovan McNabb didn't put his heart and soul into playing for the Philadelphia Eagles. The man is among arguably the most obnoxious NFL fan base and never complained for ten years. I don't see how you can question the man's desire. He's been in situations that have tested his resolve and he's responded countless times.

As a resident of Philly for a minute, I'm trying to get at what the perception of him is from Eagle fans and the difference between him and Iverson.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Ness

After all McNabb has done for the city of Philadelphia you wouldn't wish him the best? That's heartless. I could understand if he was playing your team or standing in your team's chances of getting a title, but if it's not the case, then why not? When Joe Montana left the 49ers, fans didn't turn on him...they wished the best for his continuation of his career in Kansas City.

I wish him luck but I sure as hell am not going to wish that McNabb will win a superbowl and put up the best year of his career just to spite Philly fans and the Eagles.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Thumper

There isn't, McNabb is a hard worker. But in Philly, they like hard nosed players, guys that would get into brawls to win a game, they like toughness, grit and heart, its why Brian Dawkins, Jeremiah Trotter, Jon Runyan and all those players are so beloved, they played hard and put their noses to the grindstone on every single play. Its the reason why in Philly you would find that about 1/2 of them still support TO, he had that cocky, fighting attitude that Philly loved, the Eagles fans used to sing songs to TO, he is the guy who played the superbowl on one leg, TO is a legend in Philly. But with McNabb, you don't see that drive and that heart. When someone screwed up on defense you would see Dawk or Trot get in someone's face and scream and yell and you could see their desire to win written all across their faces. But when you mess up with McNabb he always gave you a little sideways look like "C'mon Man..." and then he would just laugh it off.

McNabb just never fit in with Philly's mindset, had he been in California or Florida, the fans would love him because he fits their mindset (Chargers, Dolphins, Bucs, Jags, 49ers), you know cities that are nice, relaxed and have chilled out people. But he plays in Philly, where Rocky is beloved, the fans are intense, critical and impatient. Philly would give up anything to see another year of Buddy Ryan and the defense that was anchored by Reggie White. Its craziness. And when they see McNabb throwing up on the field, choking at key moments, lining up behind the guard, not knowing there can be ties and overall just playing badly in key games, they think "Wow, this guy is soft and he is a choker." Honestly if the Eagles had Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler or Phillip Rivers, they would be happy no matter what because they're douches, they yell and scream, they get pissed off, they irritate others etc. etc. and honestly, Phillip Rivers would have a shrine in Philly already, there were so many rumors last year that the Eagles wanted Jay Cutler. Philly loves the tough guy macho image, they don't care that McNabb runs some diabetes foundation, is father of the year and is probably one of the nicest guys they will ever meet, they just don't care.

Philly is a different world, its a shark tank, you have to be mean and bite back to survive and its the reason Philly loves AI and doesn't like McNabb.

Exactly, well put thump.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I wish him luck but I sure as hell am not going to wish that McNabb will win a superbowl and put up the best year of his career just to spite Philly fans and the Eagles.

That isn't what I was implying...which would be practically rooting for another team.

I wonder how Eagles fans would feel if Donovan did with the Super Bowl with his new team. That would hurt immensely.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Ness

That isn't what I was implying...which would be practically rooting for another team.

I wonder how Eagles fans would feel if Donovan did with the Super Bowl with his new team. That would hurt immensely.

I would be beyond livid, not that the Eagles traded him, but that when he finally comes through in an important game it is for a team other than the Eagles, the team that waited on him hand and foot for 11 years and then he goes and wins it all with another team.

and Frubulubu said

I will root for K2, but will wish McNabb outperforms him.

I don't agree with that at all... at all.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Thumper

There isn't, McNabb is a hard worker. But in Philly, they like hard nosed players, guys that would get into brawls to win a game, they like toughness, grit and heart, its why Brian Dawkins, Jeremiah Trotter, Jon Runyan and all those players are so beloved, they played hard and put their noses to the grindstone on every single play. Its the reason why in Philly you would find that about 1/2 of them still support TO, he had that cocky, fighting attitude that Philly loved, the Eagles fans used to sing songs to TO, he is the guy who played the superbowl on one leg, TO is a legend in Philly. But with McNabb, you don't see that drive and that heart. When someone screwed up on defense you would see Dawk or Trot get in someone's face and scream and yell and you could see their desire to win written all across their faces. But when you mess up with McNabb he always gave you a little sideways look like "C'mon Man..." and then he would just laugh it off.

McNabb just never fit in with Philly's mindset, had he been in California or Florida, the fans would love him because he fits their mindset (Chargers, Dolphins, Bucs, Jags, 49ers), you know cities that are nice, relaxed and have chilled out people. But he plays in Philly, where Rocky is beloved, the fans are intense, critical and impatient. Philly would give up anything to see another year of Buddy Ryan and the defense that was anchored by Reggie White. Its craziness. And when they see McNabb throwing up on the field, choking at key moments, lining up behind the guard, not knowing there can be ties and overall just playing badly in key games, they think "Wow, this guy is soft and he is a choker." Honestly if the Eagles had Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler or Phillip Rivers, they would be happy no matter what because they're douches, they yell and scream, they get pissed off, they irritate others etc. etc. and honestly, Phillip Rivers would have a shrine in Philly already, there were so many rumors last year that the Eagles wanted Jay Cutler. Philly loves the tough guy macho image, they don't care that McNabb runs some diabetes foundation, is father of the year and is probably one of the nicest guys they will ever meet, they just don't care.

Philly is a different world, its a shark tank, you have to be mean and bite back to survive and its the reason Philly loves AI and doesn't like McNabb.

So basically, McNabb deserves better than being in Philadelphia.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Ness

So basically, McNabb deserves better than being in Philadelphia.

No, the fans aren't very nice to him but the team waited hand and foot on this guy, they drafted him receiver after receiver (they've drafter more receivers than any other spot), they've drafted tight-ends, signed tight-ends, they've brought in TO and Curtis, they tried to sign Randy Moss, they tried to trade for Chad Ochocinco, Boldin, Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards etc. etc. etc. Name any receiver that had been on the chopping block and the Eagles probably made an effort to get him at some point. McNabb was treated special in the locker room. McNabb was treated greatly by the organization.

And I don't think he deserves better at all, I think he just doesn't fit in.

[frubulubu]

McNabb played a game with a broken foot, and threw 4 TD's. That is hard nose in my opinion. Anyways, thats my last post on this matter until something is resolved.

[HindSight]

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

All you had to say was "I'm from Philly" and people would assume that you want Kolb to start and think that McNabb is garbage even if you don't.

aint that the truth. philly fans are a special kind of stupid.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by HindSight

aint that the truth. philly fans are a special kind of stupid.

So are you just lumping everyone into that or what? I know a hell of a lot of stupid Eagles fans, and just as many Eagles fans that know their ****, not only when it comes to "their team", but much of the NFL as well.

[HindSight]

No I meant that every single Eagle fan who has ever and will ever live are all dumber than non-Eagle fans. I was being 100% literal and don't you let anybody ever tell you otherwise.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by HindSight

No I meant that every single Eagle fan who has ever and will ever live are all dumber than non-Eagle fans. I was being 100% literal and don't you let anybody ever tell you otherwise.

OK just checking, thanks for clearing that up.

[wogitalia]

See it's funny...

Iverson and McNabb are so similar it's funny. Both never won anything in Philly and by that I mean both won lots but never got it done in the big games. McNabb probably performed better than Iverson though and he sure as hell made a lot more big games. Both have played hurt and come up big.

It's funny though, it seems that because Iverson was a dick and let everyone know if he was hurting, he was loved for it, but for keeping it to himself McNabb is a loser. It's like Philly is living in opposites to the rest of the world. Everywhere else keeping an injury to yourself and playing through it is respected and letting people know you are hurt is not well received. Probably explains why Iverson wasn't nearly as popular in any of his other stays and why TO was not chased out by Eagles fans but was by everyone else. Just seems like everything is backwards, nothing wrong with that, just as an outsider I'd love to know where it stems from.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Thumper

No, the fans aren't very nice to him but the team waited hand and foot on this guy, they drafted him receiver after receiver (they've drafter more receivers than any other spot), they've drafted tight-ends, signed tight-ends, they've brought in TO and Curtis, they tried to sign Randy Moss, they tried to trade for Chad Ochocinco, Boldin, Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards etc. etc. etc. Name any receiver that had been on the chopping block and the Eagles probably made an effort to get him at some point. McNabb was treated special in the locker room. McNabb was treated greatly by the organization.

And I don't think he deserves better at all, I think he just doesn't fit in.

Well you pretty much endorsed that Philadelphia is a city full of dirtbags. I think a lot of people would find it hard to fit in there. Maybe that city doesn't deserve a title.

Sounds like Terrell Owens would fit right in there. Oh wait...he was axed by the fans because of being the type of person you pretty much described that Philadelphia would actually prefer.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by Ness

Well you pretty much endorsed that Philadelphia is a city full of dirtbags. I think a lot of people would find it hard to fit in there. Maybe that city doesn't deserve a title.

Thats coming from someone who lives on the opposite side of the country, and who I doubt has ever been there though. Having been in the city a lot, its got a rough look to it, its pretty poor, but its not much different than any other city. There are the dirtbags, yea, but you'll find them in any city, there are all the people working so hard just to keep their homes, and losing them anyway. I'm tired of Philly fans and the city of Philadelphia getting... well, **** on by the rest of the country. We have our scumbags, yes, every place does, but somehow the scumbags in Philly are more widely covered than any of the other scumbags in any other city. And it doesn't stop. To say the people of that city don't deserve a ring is pretty low, when it is no different than any other city, its just the minority of the fan base is what everyone hears about. It gets old hearing **** like "Philly and their fans don't deserve a title." Who are you to judge? Especially when its a group of people cast into a role that only the minority of the fans act the way it seems the rest of the country interprets it.

Now this isn't directed strictly at you ness, but I get tired of hearing that, especially when I know its not the case. And even though ones who say stuff like that will defend themself with "I know not everyone is like that.", it doesn't come across that way, especially when you say something like "Philly doesn't deserve a title". When people say things like that, it honestly seems as though they believe it isn't the minority of fans that "don't deserve a title", it comes off as a feeling that just about everyone in Philly is a worthless lowlife who is an asshole fan who doesn't deserve what they have.

[Malaka]

McNabb played through I think broken ribs last season... I don't quite understand your point of him not being tough, did he get injured a lot? Yeah.. but he played through a lot also. Plus McNabb is a douche bag too, he **** talks too much, so I don't understand how he isn't the perfect fit in Philly other than him not winning the big game.

[igglefanz]

Now before lumping me in with the rest of the Philly nuts let me state my case. Alot seem to forget the wonderful years we had between Cunningham and Mcnabb. Lets remember those great teams directed by Ty Detmer, Hoying, and Pederson. And now we want to replace a 5 time pro bowl QB, wth a good 4 years left in him, with a system QB that had one quality win in college? I say ship out Kolb but that is just me.

Now lets see what we have with Kolb. A QB that Only had one win against a mediocre Oklahoma State team in his 3 years at Houston. He was 0-2 in bowl games and a whopping 1-6 against quality teams overall. A QB that tends to hold onto the ball by the 104 sacks that he got in 3 years starting at Houston. He is not Mobile, He is not a play maker, will not improvise, and will fold when plays break down. And yet you all want him starting because he had 2 good games against 2 of the worst pass defensive teams. Once teams get the book on him he is going to be the whipping boy for the top tier defensive units.

Also Thumper trying to land a top tier receiver and getting one is 2 different things. Mcnabb made it work with Todd Pinkston, and Freddie Mitchell. Look what happened when he and TO had that one season together. I guarantee you if Mcnabb gets to play this year with the eagles he is going to have one of his best years with the talent he has now.

You can hold me to this if we trade off Mcnabb, half of you will be screaming for Vick to start by mid season. It is dumb for the Eagles to do this. This team is ready to win now with a good draft at a few spots ((OG/C and OLB)) and yet we are going to start the Kolb experiment now? Its dumb and if anyone thinks that things will be better with Kolb then Mcnabb you are only kidding yourself.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by Malaka

McNabb played through I think broken ribs last season... I don't quite understand your point of him not being tough, did he get injured a lot? Yeah.. but he played through a lot also. Plus McNabb is a douche bag too, he **** talks too much, so I don't understand how he isn't the perfect fit in Philly other than him not winning the big game.

When does McNabb talk ****? If anything he jokes around, and everyone knows it. His personality is the definition of aloof.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by igglefanz

Now before lumping me in with the rest of the Philly nuts let me state my case. Alot seem to forget the wonderful years we had between Cunningham and Mcnabb. Lets remember those great teams directed by Ty Detmer, Hoying, and Pederson. And now we want to replace a 5 time pro bowl QB, wth a good 4 years left in him, with a system QB that had one quality win in college? I say ship out Kolb but that is just me.

Now lets see what we have with Kolb. A QB that Only had one win against a mediocre Oklahoma State team in his 3 years at Houston. He was 0-2 in bowl games and a whopping 1-6 against quality teams overall. A QB that tends to hold onto the ball by the 104 sacks that he got in 3 years starting at Houston. He is not Mobile, He is not a play maker, will not improvise, and will fold when plays break down. And yet you all want him starting because he had 2 good games against 2 of the worst pass defensive teams. Once teams get the book on him he is going to be the whipping boy for the top tier defensive units.

Also Thumper trying to land a top tier receiver and getting one is 2 different things. Mcnabb made it work with Todd Pinkston, and Freddie Mitchell. Look what happened when he and TO had that one season together. I guarantee you if Mcnabb gets to play this year with the eagles he is going to have one of his best years with the talent he has now.

You can hold me to this if we trade off Mcnabb, half of you will be screaming for Vick to start by mid season. It is dumb for the Eagles to do this. This team is ready to win now with a good draft at a few spots ((OG/C and OLB)) and yet we are going to start the Kolb experiment now? Its dumb and if anyone thinks that things will be better with Kolb then Mcnabb you are only kidding yourself.

Let me say I agree with the overall sentiment of this post, but there are some things I disagree with. Trading Kolb makes no sense right now, he is the future, no matter what anyone says. His play once he does take over, whenever that may be, will decide how long that future lasts.

I am a fan of both McNabb and Kolb, and though I feel Kolb will never be as good as McNabb was/is, Kolb has shown some traits that give people with knowledge about him reason to believe he will be more than fine when he takes over at QB. 104 sacks is a **** tons of sacks to take in college, but keep in mind the rest of the offense he had around him. A QB is only as good as his Offensive Line (the same can be said about RB) Some of those sacks were the O-line's responsibility, others are Kolb's. Kolb has shown he will stare down a rusher and make the accurate throw. Which leads me to my next point... He faces the barrel of the gun, so to speak, really damn well. How many throws did he make in the Saints and Chiefs games with a defender about to knock him on his ass or with one right in his face? It wasn't uncommon, I'll tell you that. He does not fold when the play breaks down. Kolb, though he is not nearly as mobile as McNabb, is mobile in the snese that he will get that extra tenth of a second, while staying in the pocket, just using it, to get the throw off. He saved Peters of at least three sacks/passes deflected/ knockdowns in his two games. If youask me, Kolb has a future in the league as a starter, and with experience, he could develop into a very good QB.

[Malaka]

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway

When does McNabb talk ****? If anything he jokes around, and everyone knows it. His personality is the definition of aloof.

I don't watch a whole bunch of Eagles games but he is always instigating things with the Giants, maybe I am being bitter but I am supporting McNabb on this one and I don't like him all too much.