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Old 01-05-2011, 07:21 PM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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Originally Posted by FuzzyGopher View Post
McNabb and Orton will be available. Hopefully they will help at least 1 qb fall to us.
That too, hopefully 2 of SF, ARI, and Ten will go the Vet route and decide to pass on taking one of the QBs.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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McNabb and Orton will be available. Hopefully they will help at least 1 qb fall to us.
Mcnabb no, Orton...meh lol
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Was impressed with Mallett but wouldn't be a great fit for us. If we took him we would certainly need to spend several picks on the OL to protect him as he is the kind of guy that would look great behind a good line but is going to get smashed behind a bad line and calling our line bad would be a compliment.

That said, I think Luck is the only QB that I would actually want to draft and feel good about starting, especially for our team where they are going to need to be good in the pocket. Guys like Newton and Locker are extra bad because you don't want to teach them happy feet in the NFL by giving them such a bad pass protecting line.

I still think a guy like McNabb would be a very nice fit for us for a year or 2 while we Rodger's one of the prospects this year and honestly outside of personal issues on Newton there are 5 really good prospects.

Gabbert would be another nice fit for us but again would be best suited to sit a year and work through some of his flaws.

All of that said, the only guys I would feel comfortable passing on are Newton, Mallett or Locker(if he had a horrible post season) and even then it is more about fit and personal issues than talent. There are 5 QBs in this draft that have the physical tools to be elite NFL quarterbacks.

I'd still most like to move heaven and earth for Luck, love him as a prospect.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Mel Kiper's first big board was recently released I guess, and Kevin Seifert of ESPN posted his top 5 QB rankings, and where they rank on his overall BB.

1. Andrew Luck
9. Blaine Gabbert
13. Cam Newton
17. Ryan Mallett
25. Jake Locker

I'm kind of surprised to see that he has Gabbert that high. It seems like every professional draft analyst is really high on him, McShay has him as his #2 QB and mocked him in his top 5, Kiper, and Scott says he is very high on him.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like Luck is staying at Stanford next year.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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That's surprising, I didn't expect that, but I don't think it really affects us. I've thought for quite a while that if Luck comes out the Panthers will take him and if he stays in school that they'll take one of AJ Green, Da'Quan Bowers, or Nick Fairley.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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That kills my trade up for Luck idea!

The more I think about it, the more I'd actually love to take Gabe Carimi and sort out the LT position. We could then take a RG in the 3rd or 4th and I'd actually be quite happy with our OL overall. Might even be able to get something for McKinnie for some team that is desperate and stupid. I really like Carimi as a LT prospect. We might even be able to jump down 5 or so spots and pick up a 3rd from one of the QB needy teams like Seattle.

This draft is really interesting for us, basically I'd like us to take a CB, OT or QB the most as I don't see a safety who really represents value where we are at. I'd actually still love to move Winfield to safety for the next couple of years and I've been saying it for a few years now. His coverage has really slipped but he can still tackle like a mofo and would be quick for a safety still and allowed to sit back and ballhawk a bit(assuming our defense will remain the same under Frazier). This way we can get value if PP7 or the Prince are available and fix the safety problem as well.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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As I was laying in bed trying to fall asleep I was thinking about that. If the top QBs and defensive guys are gone, or the top defensive guys and 3 of the top QBs are gone and like with Clausen last year we don't like the QB that's available, then I'd love to trade down and build the OL. I was thinking about a team like Philly who could be very interested in Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris and want to move up ahead of Detroit. Then we could pick up their 2nd + another pick, which would be really nice with our lack of a 3rd with the debacle that was the Moss deal. I'd then take the top OT available after trading down, and I also really like Carimi, who would be a great fit in the power run system that Frazier wants to run. Then with the two seconds take an OG/C and a S, guys such as Kris O'Dowd, Mike Pouncey, Stefen Wisniewski, or David DeCastro (if he declares) and Rahim Moore or Deunta Williams. That way we've got the OL to protect whatever franchise QB we get next year or Webb if he is given the chance and proves that he could work.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Yeah that is my feeling as well, would love to have the line basically sorted, long term we'd have to replace Hutch but he should still have a few years in him and makes a great mentor for the rest.

Something like moving down to 16 or so to grab Carimi(assuming his grade stays similar to the current grade) and picking up a 3rd or 4th in the process would be a great move long term.

It's a tough draft though, there are plenty of legitimate QB prospects but I still don't mind waiting until next year either to get the QB if it means putting a line in front of him that he can step right in behind. I think you really need to either let them sit or give them a line that protects them if you want long term success unless they are truly special.

Either way we really can't go wrong in this draft, basically as long as we don't draft a RB in the first 3 rounds then I will be fine with it. Obviously certain guys I would like more than others but really we are in a good drafting position as far as being able to get both needs and best player available value.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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We should just bring back Moss and draft Julio Jones. Add in McDaniels and we can launch an all out aerial assault on anyone that dares to **** with us. ****, trade for the sex cannon and we can have some 5 wide **** it I'm going deep goodness all day. Defense? That **** is for pussies. Hope you have a good offense because we will put up points like the Washington Mystics mother ******.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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I like the way you think. Except we should steal Martz from Chicago and swing a deal to get Mallet. 80 yard bombs every play ************.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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I like the way you think. Except we should steal Martz from Chicago and swing a deal to get Mallet. 80 yard bombs every play ************.
It's like culpepper to moss all over again.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Question: Why not just go into the 2011 season with Joe Webb as your franchise QB? I think if they gave him a whole offseason to receive snaps as the #1 QB, he might develop into something down the line.

He looked pretty great against Philadelphia, didn't he? Why are the Vikes giving up on him already?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Question: Why not just go into the 2011 season with Joe Webb as your franchise QB? I think if they gave him a whole offseason to receive snaps as the #1 QB, he might develop into something down the line.

He looked pretty great against Philadelphia, didn't he? Why are the Vikes giving up on him already?
You pretty much answered your own question when you said "he MIGHT develop into something down the line". In this QB driven league you don't put your franchise into the hands of a might develop.

Also where did you get that we are giving up on him? Just because we're rumored to be interested in a QB doesn't mean that the team has given up on him at all, especially when it's this early in the draft process.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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^Webb looked good playing against Philly because he was playing with a lead, and didn't have to do a whole lot of diagnosing and dissecting of the Eagle's D. Fast forward a week and look at his game vs Detroit for evidence as to why we are not sold on Webb as the answer at QB next year. In a close game with a defense who was pressuring him heavily he started making bad decisions, poor throws, and took a lot of sacks instead of throwing the ball away as he was scrambling around. Now some of this can be chalked up to being a rookie, but for Vikings fans who had to deal with another mobile QB with poor accuracy and decision making (T-Jack) it is a repeat of what was wrong with our organization under Chilly.

Personally I think Webb is farther along as a QB at this point in his career than T-Jack currently is as a 5th year pro. However, it is a little odd to name Webb the starter after seeing him in action for 2.5 games. Also, take into account that Frazier was starting Webb out of desperation, not choice. He couldn't really start Ramsey (who had been in our system all of 1 week), and all week before both games Frazier continued to hint that he would start Favre if he was ready. Webb was a Chilly pick and Frazier does not have any ties to him, so he may want to bring in a QB he likes more.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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With Luck deciding to go back to Stanford another year, the 2012 draft already could have a couple huge QB prospects with Luck, possibly Matt Barkley, possibly Terrelle Pryor.

But for me to get on board with waiting another year, we'd have to pick up a guy like Kevin Kolb, or somebody who will play well next season and not retire after that.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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We should just bring back Moss and draft Julio Jones. Add in McDaniels and we can launch an all out aerial assault on anyone that dares to **** with us. ****, trade for the sex cannon and we can have some 5 wide **** it I'm going deep goodness all day. Defense? That **** is for pussies. Hope you have a good offense because we will put up points like the Washington Mystics mother ******.
We already have his **** it I'm going deep favorite, Bernard berrian. You should apply for the OC job.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Dream Offseason:

Sign: Richard Marshall CB Panthers
Resign/extend: Rice, Greenway, Leber, Peterson, Longwell, Robison
Cut ties with: Favre, Pat Williams, Edwards, Madieu, Tyrell, Cook, Sullivan, Berrian, Lewis

TRADE:
1(12) to IND for 1(22), 2(21)

2(21), conditional 2012 3rd that can turn into 2nd if we make playoffs and Kevin Kolb starts at least 10 games to PHI for Kevin Kolb QB.

Draft:
1(22) Mike Pouncey G Florida
2(11) Stefen Wisniewski C Penn State
4(??) Greg Little WR UNC
5(8) Lance Kendricks TE Wisconsin
5(19) Owen Maricic FB Stanford
6(??) Philip Livas KR Louisiana State
7(??) trade for a 6th next year

QB: Kevin Kolb, Joe Webb, Rhett Bomar
RB: Adrian Peterson, Toby Gerhart, Lorenzo Booker
FB: Owen Maricic
WR: Sidney Rice, Greg Little, Percy Harvin, Greg Camarillo, Philip Livas
TE: Visanthe Shiancoe, Jimmy Kliensassar, Lance Kendricks
LT: Bryant McKinnie, Ryan Cook
LG: Steve Hutchinson, Chris DeGeare
C: Stefen Wisniewski, Jon Cooper
RG: Mike Pouncey, Chris DeGeare
RT: Phil Loadholt, Ryan Cook

LE: Everson Griffen, Brian Robison
DT: Kevin Williams, Fred Evans
DT: Jimmy Kennedy, Letroy Guion
RE: Jared Allen, rookie
LOLB: Ben Leber, Erin Henderson
MLB: EJ Henderson, Jasper Brinkley
ROLB: Chad Greenway, Heath Farwell, Kenny Onatalu
LCB: Richard Marshall, Antoine Winfield
FS: Cedric Griffin, Eric Frampton
SS: Husain Abdullah, Jamarca Sanford
RCB: Chris Cook, Asher Allen
NCB: Antoine Winfield, Asher Allen

K: Ryan Longwell
P: Chris Kluwe
KR: Philip Livas

Look at that OFFENSIVE LINE, and if Cedric can play FS that secondary is pretty nasty too. Little is this years Mike Williams IMO, was a 2nd rounder before he got suspended, and Kolb has a lot to work with.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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NOT a Kolb fan at all.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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Our best defensive back gets demoted to a nickel corner?
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I like the Oline help. But I don't like Kolb
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:39 AM    (permalink
wogitalia
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Look at that OFFENSIVE LINE,
We would still be starting the worst player in McKinnie but I like that you at least want to address it.

Our secondary is still woeful. Winfield to safety makes way more sense. He is the best tackler on our defense and should do well at safety as he basically plays corner as a safety these days anyway.

I also hate the idea of trading for Kolb, I just don't like him at all. If we are going to do the draft pick trade(which I like) I'd rather keep those draft picks and get some good young talent, hopefully secondary or OL help as that is what we need.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:31 PM    (permalink
Kid_Ego
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I agree we need a qb but I think there are goingto beoptions with out giving up anythingin trade.
Im totally down with the pouncy pick. he could start at rg this year and maybe replace hutch later on. Taking a young left tackle wouldnt hurt either and maybe getting a a pick for Miss Mckinnie or the man formally known as mount. Lately he is the one getting mounted.
I am not against some of the latter picks at qb I really think the qb from alabama might be a great steal hes smart good arm started against top notch talent and won alot of games he reminds me of Brad Johnson.
Sure hes not a glamour pick but keep in mind his dad is in football hes been raised around the game and he was is a very bright guy. there will be those who question his production but Sabans offense and that run game I dont see any reason to air it out. I think we need to acquire some talent through free agency. But this appears to be a season where free agency may be loaded I love the coaching staff descions we have made. I wouldnt be against signing a free agent qb absolutely no way we should give up draft picks for a unproven qb like kolb. When there are qbs like orton, Young and possibly mcnabb. all three have done more than KOLB.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Who do you guys want most for us at QB and why??

I'm one of those guys who always reads all the forum stuff but never posts anything but i'm bored today haha

Personally i like gabbert, his footwork is crap but he just feels most like a franchise QB to me. I'd also like Newton or Locker, in that order. Pretty much and of the big 4 minus mallett. He doesn't fit our system and his character concerns me
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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What system is it that Mallett doesn't fit? Unless I missed something, neither Frazier nor Musgrave have said what we're going to run, other than that we're going to be power run oriented. Which honestly IMO fits Mallett well, run a lot of PA to allow deep routes to open up, which would fit well with Harvin and Rice both stretching the field well.

I would be fine with any of the QBs other than Newton actually. I just don't see it with him. He hasn't shown to me that he can beat teams from within the pocket, and as we've all seen, you can't succeed over time in the NFL as a QB unless it's from within the pocket.

Locker scares me big time, but I see potential in him. I would have to rank him 3rd after Gabbert and Mallett. None of them are great quality QB prospects and all have big concerns.

I honestly would probably rather not take a QB this year and rebuild a bit slower. Use our first on Carimi, which gets rid of McKinnie who I hate and has struggled even more so with speed rushers as he's aging and is getting less of a push in the running game as his feet get slower and slower. Then in the second I'd like to see someone like Wisniewski who can play both C and G. Then next year we'll probably be picking sooner unless we get better QB play from Webb or a veteran and then we can get a guy like Luck or Barkley, depending on how bad we are, or settle with a Kirk Cousins, Landry Jones, or Nick Foles type of guy. Then we can protect them and with the skill position guys we have, they're in a perfect position to succeed.
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