The Official G-Men 2011 NFL Draft Thread - Page 12

bigbluedefense · 01-18-2011, 02:26 PM

He's the wildcard in all of this. If Beatty can pack on some weight, study his assignments and get his stuff together, the need for a LT is no longer as urgent.

That would make Gabe even more desirable in my eyes, bc he'd be our RT of the future.

I was just thinking now, I remember Coughlin glowing about Mich Petrus at the end of the season when he was asked to assess the rookies from this year.

I wonder...if he loves him that much, and if Diehl and Snee are pretty much locked into both Guard positions for the foreseeable future...do they move Petrus to Center?

Is it really that crazy to think that's possible? I honestly thought they wouldve done that this year. If Koets can do it, why can't Petrus?

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 07:11 AM

I tell you what guys, the more I look at Cameron Heyward, the more I'm digging him with our 1st. The guy is a stud.

I know he's more of a 34 End than he is a DT, but I think he'll thrive in either scheme. Especially with Tuck and Osi on the edges. Plus he's scheme diverse, which is always a plus in case we do move to a 34 later on.

He reminds me of Richard Seymour, and Seymour is a beast in either scheme.

I'm starting to get on the Cameron Heyward bandwagon. I'm really digging his game.

He would be BPA at 19 too, at least I'm assuming so.

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

He's the wildcard in all of this. If Beatty can pack on some weight, study his assignments and get his stuff together, the need for a LT is no longer as urgent.

That would make Gabe even more desirable in my eyes, bc he'd be our RT of the future.

I was just thinking now, I remember Coughlin glowing about Mich Petrus at the end of the season when he was asked to assess the rookies from this year.

I wonder...if he loves him that much, and if Diehl and Snee are pretty much locked into both Guard positions for the foreseeable future...do they move Petrus to Center?

Is it really that crazy to think that's possible? I honestly thought they wouldve done that this year. If Koets can do it, why can't Petrus?

No, no, no.. No musical offensive linemen. We are going to sack up and grab the right prospects to fit the position. No more moving people here and there. We screwed up Kiwi's career moving him back and forth. Sintim has done nothing and I don't want to move a guard to center. If we want a center, than we need to actually draft one. Same with LB. Draft the position we need!

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning

No, no, no.. No musical offensive linemen. We are going to sack up and grab the right prospects to fit the position. No more moving people here and there. We screwed up Kiwi's career moving him back and forth. Sintim has done nothing and I don't want to move a guard to center. If we want a center, than we need to actually draft one. Same with LB. Draft the position we need!

In a perfect world yes. But who knows how things shape up. I don't want us to sacrifice the integrity of our board just for the sake of getting a certain position.

And in that case, you need a plan B. Plenty of Guards have converted to Centers and have thrived. Olinemen can shuffle, it's not that big of a deal. It happens all the time all across the league.

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 07:41 AM

Boss, what do you think of Cameron Heyward? Have you seen any Ohio State games?

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Boss, what do you think of Cameron Heyward? Have you seen any Ohio State games?

No, don't watch college football. No parity, it's not fun. I just watch NFL actually. Don't even watch any other sport.

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning

No, don't watch college football. No parity, it's not fun. I just watch NFL actually. Don't even watch any other sport.

I'm catching some games that were DVR'd. I'm not a college football fan either. Plus that would be footbal overkill for me. I love football, but I can't watch it 24/7. That would drive me insane, it's not like it's my profession or anything.

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

In a perfect world yes. But who knows how things shape up. I don't want us to sacrifice the integrity of our board just for the sake of getting a certain position.

And in that case, you need a plan B. Plenty of Guards have converted to Centers and have thrived. Olinemen can shuffle, it's not that big of a deal. It happens all the time all across the league.

True. I would go BPA, but on the same token, not going to start moving offensive linemen. We are versatile and other players from other positions on the line can play different spots. That's a good thing, but I wouldn't confuse that with that player being the right guy to play it full time.

Elite lines have the same players playing on it, unless there is injury and need depth. I would rather sign or draft trench players.

Forenci · 01-19-2011, 09:58 AM

I'm a big Heyward fan myself. He's a very powerful guy, but he does lack some of the flash that a lot of top tier defensive linemen tend to have. His arsenal of pass rush moves is fairly limited, but he's a very strong and I think most people see him as a "safe" pick. Someone who doesn't have huge upside necessarily, but a guy who you know will contribute and be productive at the very least.

I wouldn't be upset at all if we took him.

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 11:11 AM

I think he can be that interior piece we're missing on defense. Can you imagine a future dline of

LE: Tuck
NT: Joseph
UT: Heyward
RE: JPP

That would be beyond sick.

Giantsfan1080 · 01-19-2011, 11:26 AM

I'm fine with Heyward and Watt as well. It would give us a lot more flexibility in regards to Kiwi and Osi also.

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 11:29 AM

That's honestly probably the 2nd biggest missing ingredient to our defense, an interior pass rusher.

Since LB is so weak this year, it'll be interesting to see if we go in that direction. Or if we go after olinemen instead.

This year is a lot like last year in a sense that we can go in a bunch of different directions.

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I think he can be that interior piece we're missing on defense. Can you imagine a future dline of

LE: Tuck
NT: Joseph
UT: Heyward
RE: JPP

That would be beyond sick.

Sick for what?

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning

Sick for what?

Huh?

The Giants identity is along the dline. I have no problem with us overstocking the dline.

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Huh?

The Giants identity is along the dline. I have no problem with us overstocking the dline.

Well my point was yeah it would be sick until teams go with the 3 step drop and negate everything, which is a trend that's reoccuring now. That was my point..

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning

Well my point was yeah it would be sick until teams go with the 3 step drop and negate everything, which is a trend that's reoccuring now. That was my point..

Well, I think the biggest flaw in our philosophy is we're so hell bent on getting DEs that we ignore interior pressure.

We need an interior pressure guy to complete the dline. But I like what we do. We have a way of doing things, and we feel strongly about it. We don't deviate and try to copy other trends, the Giants believe in overstocking the dline and coming at you in waves and they have stuck to that philosophy.

I think to be successful, you need to stay true to what you believe is a winning formula.

An interior rusher would allow us to leave another guy in coverage vs 3 step drop teams.

NY+Giants=NYG · 01-19-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Well, I think the biggest flaw in our philosophy is we're so hell bent on getting DEs that we ignore interior pressure.

We need an interior pressure guy to complete the dline. But I like what we do. We have a way of doing things, and we feel strongly about it. We don't deviate and try to copy other trends, the Giants believe in overstocking the dline and coming at you in waves and they have stuck to that philosophy.

I think to be successful, you need to stay true to what you believe is a winning formula.

An interior rusher would allow us to leave another guy in coverage vs 3 step drop teams.

I don't think it's just 3 step drop teams, but teams who rather see that as a weakness and use it against us. Why risk 5 or 7 steps when you can not get killed and get yards with 3 steps? That's what Josh M. failed to do in the superbowl.

I don't think the DL would help. You would need to zone blitz, and drop the end in curl zone, or have better CBs to break up the pass. But the slant is a big time weapon against the DL. We saw this against GB.

bigbluedefense · 01-19-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning

I don't think it's just 3 step drop teams, but teams who rather see that as a weakness and use it against us. Why risk 5 or 7 steps when you can not get killed and get yards with 3 steps? That's what Josh M. failed to do in the superbowl.

I don't think the DL would help. You would need to zone blitz, and drop the end in curl zone, or have better CBs to break up the pass. But the slant is a big time weapon against the DL. We saw this against GB.

The thing is, you can't assume you're always going to be in a 3 step drop. You're going to be in situations where you see 3rd and long, no matter how many 3 step drops you do.

Zone blitzing and the 46 are the 2 principles I like the most. In that GB game, we got killed when Rodgers actually held onto the ball and made plays outside the pocket. We ran a ton of Cover 3 against them.

I am not denying that we need fast linebackers more than we need an interior rusher, but we do still need an interior rusher.

DOMINATEtheline · 01-19-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I tell you what guys, the more I look at Cameron Heyward, the more I'm digging him with our 1st. The guy is a stud.

I know he's more of a 34 End than he is a DT, but I think he'll thrive in either scheme. Especially with Tuck and Osi on the edges. Plus he's scheme diverse, which is always a plus in case we do move to a 34 later on.

He reminds me of Richard Seymour, and Seymour is a beast in either scheme.

I'm starting to get on the Cameron Heyward bandwagon. I'm really digging his game.

He would be BPA at 19 too, at least I'm assuming so.

Hey man! I'm been doing some hw on DTs. Heyward-a matchup problem in the interior cause of his long arms, heavy violent hand use, good technique and good anchor. The versatility at 6-5 280-285lbs is crazy! He can come in a be our 3rd DT and spell either Tuck or Osi and provide Fewell with some crazy defensive line formations! And more importantly we are safeguarding potential injuries, what happens if osi goes down or god forbid tuck!
Here are the DTs that got my attn:
Paea
Ligeut
Jenkins
Powe
I'll give my notes on them later...

OSUGiants17 · 01-20-2011, 05:16 PM

Would anyone here be upset with us trading down or maybe even out of the 1st entirely(and getting a 1st next year)? I feel like unless Amukamara(unlikely) or Ingram or some other stud is there we trade down. I feel as if this is a week OT class, no C is worth a 1st round pick, and DT and OLB are not round 1 needs.

OSUGiants17 · 01-20-2011, 05:19 PM

BTW Cameron is good but I feel like he is a bit of a luxury, don't get me wrong me of all people would absolutely LOVE to see an OSU player go to the G-Men especially a favorite of mine like Heyward. I would rather trade down and try and get him later on.

BaLLiN · 01-20-2011, 09:52 PM

1st two rounds:

1.Von Miller SLB Texas A&M

I know this means that we're drafting a guy thats similar to Sintim in the way that he's almost 1 dimensional, but Miller had experience in coverage and does fairly well in zone. He's speedy, so knowing our DL coaching maybe we can help out his passrushing repertoire?

2. Marcus Cannon RT TCU

This guy i would be ecstatic with, he is nimble enough on his feet to handle JJ Watt who is definitely a force to be reckoned with. He could very well be our RT, and a stopgap at LT possibly if need be.

bigbluedefense · 01-21-2011, 09:38 AM

I wouldn't mind trading our 1st for a future 1st. This seems like a pretty weak draft class.

Bc so many talented players came out last year, this year will feel the hangover from that.

I feel like there's going to be a lot of busts from this draft class. I can't imagine Reese doing that though. It's not his MO. He's a Bill Polian type, stay in your spot and go after a BPA that fills a need on the team.

DOMINATEtheline · 01-21-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUGiants17

Would anyone here be upset with us trading down or maybe even out of the 1st entirely(and getting a 1st next year)? I feel like unless Amukamara(unlikely) or Ingram or some other stud is there we trade down. I feel as if this is a week OT class, no C is worth a 1st round pick, and DT and OLB are not round 1 needs.

Looking at the prelimenary draftboards pre Senior Bowl and pre Combine and our needs it looks like a good idea to trade down 10 or so spots and picking up an extra pick, but how about trading up? What are your thoughts?

DOMINATEtheline · 01-21-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN

1st two rounds:

1.Von Miller SLB Texas A&M

I know this means that we're drafting a guy thats similar to Sintim in the way that he's almost 1 dimensional, but Miller had experience in coverage and does fairly well in zone. He's speedy, so knowing our DL coaching maybe we can help out his passrushing repertoire?

2. Marcus Cannon RT TCU

This guy i would be ecstatic with, he is nimble enough on his feet to handle JJ Watt who is definitely a force to be reckoned with. He could very well be our RT, and a stopgap at LT possibly if need be.

Von Miller- I'm going to wait till the combine to see how he looks in the linebacker skill drills, I'll be looking closely at his pass drop and his backpedal, but a part of me is bias against 3-4 olb prospects coverting to the 4-3.

Marcus Cannon - I like him a lot, I wanna see his pass pro, I really like him because is big massive type, I want a strong POA type, someone that can engulf defenders on a regular basis. If he can play RT then he is someone we should consider, I bet the Reid and the Eagles have their eyes on him already!