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Old 01-20-2011, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Damien Berry (Miami), Vai Taua (Nevada) and Darren Evans (Virginia Tech) are players who could very well go undrafted
One of them will likely be taken with a 7th round pick we get when we trade down.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Vollmer being taken in the late second round was a fluke. It was just a poorly judged draft by most GMs. Guys like him are usually not in the second round.
To clarify I am not saying his talent level, but in regards to taking an OT of 2nd round value, that's what I see.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Vollmer being taken in the late second round was a fluke. It was just a poorly judged draft by most GMs. Guys like him are usually not in the second round.
Jared Veldheer was this year.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I can possibly see an OT with talent slip to #60 or even an OG to sure up on our OL spots.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I could see an OT slipping to the second very easily. Such an unstable class for tackles. The top will literally be ranked by team preference. We could get lucky and see Solder drop to the second. This is not very realistic, but it is a possibility.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Jared Veldheer was this year.
We'll see. Veldheer managed to leapfrog one of the worst LTs in the NFL. Vollmer is arguably the best OT from that class.

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I could see an OT slipping to the second very easily. Such an unstable class for tackles. The top will literally be ranked by team preference. We could get lucky and see Solder drop to the second. This is not very realistic, but it is a possibility.
It could happen, but it's super rare to let a franchise tackle fall into round 2. If you have one on the left, you could always use one on the right. It's just not normal for a team to pass up on one, especially since coaches do not feel as bound to them like they do QBs.

That's the biggest reason QBs fall.

The same reason why the Patriots can not draft a DE/OLB hybrid. They only want guys who are prototypical, but those guys can (and often do) go in the top 10-15.

Veldheer fell because he played at Hillsdale. Vollmer fell because he was going to be 25 and was coming off back surgery.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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We'll see. Veldheer managed to leapfrog one of the worst LTs in the NFL. Vollmer is arguably the best OT from that class.



It could happen, but it's super rare to let a franchise tackle fall into round 2. If you have one on the left, you could always use one on the right. It's just not normal for a team to pass up on one, especially since coaches do not feel as bound to them like they do QBs.

That's the biggest reason QBs fall.

The same reason why the Patriots can not draft a DE/OLB hybrid. They only want guys who are prototypical, but those guys can (and often do) go in the top 10-15.
I'd targetted Veldheer for my Pats' wish list in round 2 last year (and didn't think they'd have a chance at him) - not complaining about Cunningham or Spikes, though. There will be another giant athletic dude that doesn't get enough attention this year. There almost always is, it seems.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Think there's a bit of revisionist history here with Vollmer. If we didn't take him in the second, no one would have. He was under the radar for concerns about his age and rawness. Scarnecchia is one of the better position coaches in the NFL and can help a guy work through issues quicker than others. But there were pretty significant concerns about Vollmer, we're not talking about a blue chip prospect. Wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl and only really made waves at the Shrine Game practices. Before that, he was an intriguing option in the late rounds.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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#17 -- Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
#28 -- Cameron Jordan, DE, California
#33 -- Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
#60 -- Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
#74 -- Marcus Cannon, OT, TCU
#92 -- Greg Romeus, DE, Pittsburgh
4th -- Tom Keiser, OLB, Stanford
5th -- Bilal Powell, RB, Louisville
6th -- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond

These are my new thoughts on the Patriots picks. Everything I am hearing says that Kerrigan is probably the best OLB fit the Pats can find at the top of the draft, so he becomes a real possibility at #17. I have also heard that JJ Watt may not make the best fit in NE, but a guy like Heyward or Jordan will, so that's where we get that #28 pick. At 33, you sure up the OL with a ready made player. From there you go OT, WR, DE, and add depth and a solid OT who can play RT in the pros. More depth added late with a RB, another OLB and CB that everyone says fits our system.

Overall we add -- 2 OLB, 2 DE, OG, WR, OT, RB, CB

All of are biggest needs, and don't add all top guys but also depth that can spring into a bigger role. I love Romeus and Keisler in the middle rounds to imerge as very good players in a 3-4.

At this point I also expect the Pats to trade down from #28.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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More like 3 OLBs and one de. Either way, I like it.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Romeus is 3-4 DE material.. 6-6/6-7 270lbs -- needs to bulk up a bit but still good.

Jordan is a 3-4 DE.

Keisler and Kerrigan are OLB
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Disagree with you there. Romeus is not a two gap player. Doesn't play with enough power or effect the run. Not the type of guy to handle double teams and make plays through the gaps. He has 3-4 DE size on paper(but not the right build), but not ability. If he were drafted into a 3-4, he would likely be required to shed 10 pounds and play OLB.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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That would be ideal for him to drop 10lbs, but you can also have him bulk up and play in sub packages.
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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I don't really think he could bulk up much to be honest. He's got a basketball body and his injury very well could have something to do with bulking up too much too soon. Played at around 250 his Junior year. He can get after the passer for sure and should be a real good player if he can come back from from that knee injury 100%.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Honestly... I don't get the obsession with people thinking the Pats will draft a DE. The only reasoning seems to be that all of the other positions seem to be locked down pretty solidly and this draft is stacked with 5-tech prospects.

I really wasn't disappointed with the DL this year at all, and that's before talking about the injuries to the better parts of the DE depth chart. Pepper Johnson did an amazing job this year developing young defensive linemen, and Gerard Warren was a huge addition. I mean, you stick Ty Warren and Mike Wright back in that rotation and the DL looks absolutely sick.

Aside from the miracle possibility of Marcel Dareus falling, the only DL that's getting me the least bit excited for the Pats right now is Paea because of his potential to develop into a dominant NT. But I see Deaderick as someone who could develop into an NT and I'm pretty interested in Kade Weston, too.

If one of the QBs starts sliding, I'm down for the Pats snagging him at #17. Those QBs all have elite talent. Put them in an Aaron Rodgers-type situation and amazing things could happen/continue down the road.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I really wasn't disappointed with the DL this year at all, and that's before talking about the injuries to the better parts of the DE depth chart.
Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.

The Pass Rushers (pryor and wright) are in need of a replacement or some help.

edit: The DE and OG/C are NE two biggest needs. OLB is 3rd. The rest of the positions are backups or situational/rotational players.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Ty Warren and Mike Wright will be huge additions, but Gerrard Warren is merely serviceable at that position. Good lockeroom guy by most accounts and a real nice rotational player to have, but not an above average starter. We had real issues stopping the run at times this year and a top flight DE is only going to help. This team has shown a dedication, or obsession really, in years past to building the defense from the line up. Most of those guys you mentioned do have some potential...but not as big time starters. We have enough versatile rotational players on the DL. It's time to bring in some full time starters.

As far as specific guys, I don't think either Dareus or Paea fit real well. Dareus could well fit in here, but I would be more interested in him in a 1 gap system. Same goes for Paea. He's a cut guy for 300+ and is more in the Brandon Mebane category than than a full on NT. He would have to do some sumo eating and really change the way he plays to become a true NT. Could he be Jay Ratliff? Absolutely. But we really don't have much room for guys like that here, especially at the price of a first round pick.

I'm not willing to close the book on Brady yet or even make plans for it. That's a step in the wrong direction mentally for this team. We want to be contending for a title with Tom Brady in next few years. From a pure business machine standpoint, drafting a quarterback to start in a few years would be a good move...but it sends the wrong message to the players to say this all has an expiration date. We should be putting the pieces together to be relevant now, not drafting to stay relevant in a few years. Worst comes to worst, we lose Brady in three years and field a stop gap type player at quarterback with hopefully improved offense talent for a year. But that's looking way to far down the line right now. A first round pick is too valuable an asset to expend on the far future right now. We should be using it to beat the Jets and get to a Super Bowl.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.
I wouldn't call Brace a sieve as much as a guy out of place. He was drafted because we weren't confident we could come to an agreement with Wilfork probably for some leverage in those negotiations. With Wilfork cemented as the unquestioned Alpha Dog at NT, he doesn't really fit in well anywhere. He did pretty good plugging up the run when it was to the inside, but anything that involved footspeed he struggled with. Also doesn't do him any good that he apparently has major conditioning issues.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Stephen Paea is being graded out as a 34 NT.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.

The Pass Rushers (pryor and wright) are in need of a replacement or some help.

edit: The DE and OG/C are NE two biggest needs. OLB is 3rd. The rest of the positions are backups or situational/rotational players.
Wright and Pryor were injured for a large portion of the season. Wright was one of the best - if not THE best - pass rushing 3-4 DE in the NFL this season. He was a beast until he suffered the concussion and never came back. People keep talking about replacing him (going back years now), but he's proven he's on a higher level as a 3-4 DL than what he's been given credit for.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Square peg, round hole. The desire for NT's is at an all time high right now...but unfortunately the supply does not meet the demand. A few years ago before the mass migration to the 3-4, Paea wouldn't even be considered there.

I've seen a lot of Northwest Football the past few years and he stands out for sure...but I think his potential is very limited in a 3-4. It would have to be the right team and be more of an attacking style defense. Scott said Sedrick Ellis for a guy he's similar too. Are you guys REALLY comfortable having that type of player play the most important position in a 3-4?
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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If you don't think we need a DE. What makes you think we need a NT? We have the best one in the league.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Wright and Pryor were injured for a large portion of the season. Wright was one of the best - if not THE best - pass rushing 3-4 DE in the NFL this season. He was a beast until he suffered the concussion and never came back. People keep talking about replacing him (going back years now), but he's proven he's on a higher level as a 3-4 DL than what he's been given credit for.
That doesn't make him a starting caliber player though. That's great that he can get after the passer and all that. Love him as a player and was possibly one of the more underrated guys in the NFL the past few years...but he's a rotational player without a true position. He's not a stout gap player or a guy who can demand double teams and allows LB's to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He hardly ever plays out of the base package anyway.

Hell, the fact we can't run a base package is a bad sign for our defensive line.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Square peg, round hole. The desire for NT's is at an all time high right now...but unfortunately the supply does not meet the demand. A few years ago before the mass migration to the 3-4, Paea wouldn't even be considered there.
Paea is a 1 gapper, 43 NT. He's 310+ LBs at 6'1". He uses leverage and plays like a NT. While I don't think he'll be a great 34 NT, I think he'll be fine.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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If you don't think we need a DE. What makes you think we need a NT? We have the best one in the league.
They don't, but the fact that Paea offers that kind of versatility makes him an attractive option. Paea would primarily be a DE for the Pats with the ability to fill in at NT. He's the kind of player that would never have to leave the field.
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