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Old 05-01-2010, 10:04 AM    (permalink
Morton
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
Crap > What we had last year
That's like saying that you'd rather get cut with a rusty steak knife than jabbed in the eye with a fork.

Until the Browns get an even remotely competent quarterback, they're not climbing out of the basement of the AFC North, not with the Ravens and the Steelers as good as they are right now, and drafting as well as they do.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
That's like saying that you'd rather get cut with a rusty steak knife than jabbed in the eye with a fork.

Until the Browns get an even remotely competent quarterback, they're not climbing out of the basement of the AFC North, not with the Ravens and the Steelers as good as they are right now, and drafting as well as they do.
Ravens, yes
Steelers drafting has been mediocre in recent years and with their current situations, they are hardly a lock to do anything this year.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
The Browns season last year passing may have been the worst thing I've ever witnessed in pro football. We seriously went into games wondering if we would put up more than 6 points it was that bad.
Jake is definitely going to put up more than 6 points...for the other team! Buuuuurn.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Ravens, yes
Steelers drafting has been mediocre in recent years and with their current situations, they are hardly a lock to do anything this year.
You're delusional if you don't think the Steelers are still a good team. Polamalu is back next year, they upgraded their O-Line, added a nice young pass rusher. They still have the best defense in that division.

I'd be completely shocked if the Browns don't finish in the bottom of the AFC North. I mean, SHOCKED. No quarterback and marginal improvements on defense = 5-11 at best.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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You're delusional if you don't think the Steelers are still a good team. Polamalu is back next year, they upgraded their O-Line, added a nice young pass rusher. They still have the best defense in that division.

I'd be completely shocked if the Browns don't finish in the bottom of the AFC North. I mean, SHOCKED. No quarterback and marginal improvements on defense = 5-11 at best.
Tell me when that nice young pass rusher is going to see the field this year? Special teams? And how is 3 draft picks in the secondary, marginal, but 1 pick on the O-line is considered an upgrade worthy of being mentioned? I have no doubt the Steelers will do what the Steelers do and be a solid team, but some of your points don't add up.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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You're delusional if you don't think the Steelers are still a good team. Polamalu is back next year, they upgraded their O-Line, added a nice young pass rusher. They still have the best defense in that division.

I'd be completely shocked if the Browns don't finish in the bottom of the AFC North. I mean, SHOCKED. No quarterback and marginal improvements on defense = 5-11 at best.
I fully expect the Browns to be in the basement of the AFC North for the exact reason you said, but they should still improve. As for marginal improvements... the Browns went from starting a safety at corner and a wide receiver at safety at times to having Eric Wright, Sheldon Brown, and Joe Haden at corner plus a couple draft picks at safety plus Mike Adams going back to his natural position. The defense should be much improved.

The Steelers do have the best defense in the division, but their team is in complete disarray. #1 receiver and Superbowl MVP? Gone. Franchise QB? Suspended at least 4 games.

The Steelers missed the playoffs last year and this season they are a mess, so should I expect them to get better than last year? Seems unlikely.

And none of this changes the fact they've been in mediocre in the draft in recent years.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Tell me when that nice young pass rusher is going to see the field this year? Special teams? And how is 3 draft picks in the secondary, marginal, but 1 pick on the O-line is considered an upgrade worthy of being mentioned? I have no doubt the Steelers will do what the Steelers do and be a solid team, but some of your points don't add up.
Regarding the Steelers:
Jason Worilds is a great, underrated pass rusher. I foresee some rotational play in 2010, helping keep James Harrison fresh, and then eventually becoming his successor. Maurkice Pouncey is a beast of a man who will instantly upgrade their running game.

Regarding the Browns:
Joe Haden, imo, was one of the more overrated cornerbacks in the draft. He lacks top-end speed. Similarly, Sheldon Brown is a great physical run-stopping corner, but he's a free safety playing corner who lost a step in the last year, and wasn't ever even all that fast to begin with. I can easily see the Browns getting burned for long touchdowns often next year.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post
Yeah, I'm gonna have them picking #2 because they lost their QB.

That makes zero sense. Arizona has one of the most talented teams in the league.
I picked Arizona as my darkhorse top picking team, that D still has some serious concerns and I didn't like Leinart coming out and I still don't like leinart now, so if that passing game comes down to earth because of leinart I see the running game stagnating and that D having to do more which is a pretty solid recipe for disaster. Of course if Leinart to doesn't fail epically they won't be picking this high, but if he does I wouldn't be shocked to see the cards in the Locker/Mallett sweepstakes.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
Regarding the Steelers:
Jason Worilds is a great, underrated pass rusher. I foresee some rotational play in 2010, helping keep James Harrison fresh, and then eventually becoming his successor. Maurkice Pouncey is a beast of a man who will instantly upgrade their running game.

Regarding the Browns:
Joe Haden, imo, was one of the more overrated cornerbacks in the draft. He lacks top-end speed. Similarly, Sheldon Brown is a great physical run-stopping corner, but he's a free safety playing corner who lost a step in the last year, and wasn't ever even all that fast to begin with. I can easily see the Browns getting burned for long touchdowns often next year.
4.4 is perfectly fine

Which is fine for a nickel back or free safety

The likely starting corners are going to be Eric Wright and Joe Haden.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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I fully expect the Browns to be in the basement of the AFC North for the exact reason you said, but they should still improve. As for marginal improvements... the Browns went from starting a safety at corner and a wide receiver at safety at times to having Eric Wright, Sheldon Brown, and Joe Haden at corner plus a couple draft picks at safety plus Mike Adams going back to his natural position. The defense should be much improved.

The Steelers do have the best defense in the division, but their team is in complete disarray. #1 receiver and Superbowl MVP? Gone. Franchise QB? Suspended at least 4 games.

The Steelers missed the playoffs last year and this season they are a mess, so should I expect them to get better than last year? Seems unlikely.

And none of this changes the fact they've been in mediocre in the draft in recent years.
I actually see the steelers having a better year this year. Pouncey is huge for that OL and whoever tries to replace Big Ben for the start of the year. They'll be running the ball hard once again and with Troy back that D should go back to being filthy. That's enough to stick around until Big Ben comes back.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I actually see the steelers having a better year this year. Pouncey is huge for that OL and whoever tries to replace Big Ben for the start of the year. They'll be running the ball hard once again and with Troy back that D should go back to being filthy. That's enough to stick around until Big Ben comes back.
I hated the fact the Steelers picked Pouncey, because I think he will be a stud just like Mack. However, the problems of that offensive line go far beyond the center position and he still is a rookie, so we'll see how fast he adjusts.

The far bigger concern is the defensive line. Aaron Smith is older and coming back from injury. Casey Hampton is older and started showing his age last season. He was pushed around by Alex Mack last year in the game where the Browns beat them... no passing game at all. They knew the the Browns were going to run the ball and they had no answer at all. So, if I'm a Steeler's fan, I'm worried about the DLine
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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If the Bills hadn't switched to the 3-4, I would back them to fall in the 7-10 range again due to a decent enough defense. The switch makes them the favorites to pick 1st tho, no way around it.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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This is a really hard question, if I remember correctly the favorites last year were the Browns, and they finished 7th. For the sake of keeping this post relevant I'll hop on the Bills bandwagon, no QB + no line =/= more than 4 wins.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Again, I would bet money on the fact that it's either going to be the Bills or the Browns next year picking #1.

That's all good, though, because then Holmgren can either get a stud pass rusher like Robert Quinn or a young quarterback like Jake Locker with the #1 pick next year.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
I hated the fact the Steelers picked Pouncey, because I think he will be a stud just like Mack. However, the problems of that offensive line go far beyond the center position and he still is a rookie, so we'll see how fast he adjusts.

The far bigger concern is the defensive line. Aaron Smith is older and coming back from injury. Casey Hampton is older and started showing his age last season. He was pushed around by Alex Mack last year in the game where the Browns beat them... no passing game at all. They knew the the Browns were going to run the ball and they had no answer at all. So, if I'm a Steeler's fan, I'm worried about the DLine
Aaron Smith really is the key to that run D, if he's healthy and stays that way I'm not really worried about their DL, plus now that what's his face from last year's draft has been redshirted he'll be in the rotation at the very least.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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This is a really hard question, if I remember correctly the favorites last year were the Browns, and they finished 7th. For the sake of keeping this post relevant I'll hop on the Bills bandwagon, no QB + no line =/= more than 4 wins.
That equation is a nice over-simplification except that no QB + no OL has equaled more than 4 wins since Bledsoe started sucking.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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That equation is a nice over-simplification except that no QB + no OL has equaled more than 4 wins since Bledsoe started sucking.
Lol alright, alright... No QB + No OL + Transitioning D =/= more than 4 wins.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Again, I would bet money on the fact that it's either going to be the Bills or the Browns next year picking #1.

That's all good, though, because then Holmgren can either get a stud pass rusher like Robert Quinn or a young quarterback like Jake Locker with the #1 pick next year.
Certainly possible, but you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to the Browns.

The secondary of the Browns, at least on paper, is vastly improved. We'll see how Haden, Wright, and Brown work out plus TJ Ward and Larry Asante with the safeties.

The Browns running game really hit its stride at the end of the year and now with Jerome Harrison, they have Montario Hardesty and we'll see what James Davis can do coming off of injury running behind Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Lawrence Vickers.

The Browns went 5-11 last year and should be better this year, but the schedule is more difficult this year. The worst case scenario I can envision is 4-12, but I think Mangini and company can get them to 6-10 or 7-9.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Wonderbred: I'll mail you a $100 check next year if the Browns win more than 5 games in 2010.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Wonderbred: I'll mail you a $100 check next year if the Browns win more than 5 games in 2010.
Sounds good

Just a heads up... some of the more winnable games this year

Week 1: at Tampa
Week 2: vs Kansas City (beat them last year)
Week 11: at Jacksonville (beat them last year)
Week 12: vs Panthers
Week 14: at Bills (beat them the last few times)
Week 17: vs. Steelers (beat them last year at home)
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Sounds good

Just a heads up... some of the more winnable games this year

Week 1: at Tampa
Week 2: vs Kansas City (beat them last year)
Week 11: at Jacksonville (beat them last year)
Week 12: vs Panthers
Week 14: at Bills (beat them the last few times)
Week 17: vs. Steelers (beat them last year at home)
Tampa has a good chance of starting 1-0 cus I know we will beat the browns.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:22 AM    (permalink
Morton
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Yup, I don't see the Browns beating the Bucs next year. Unlike the Browns, at least the Bucs have a legit QB, and they now have one of the best pass-rushing DTs (McCoy) of the draft, so I easily see the Browns being held to less than 10 points, and that should be enough for Freeman to win the game.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Yup, I don't see the Browns beating the Bucs next year. Unlike the Browns, at least the Bucs have a legit QB, and they now have one of the best pass-rushing DTs (McCoy) of the draft, so I easily see the Browns being held to less than 10 points, and that should be enough for Freeman to win the game.
Plus they were last in the NFC south last year which means they'll get every bounce this year.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Plus they were last in the NFC south last year which means they'll get every bounce this year.
Oh god, if the Bucs make the playoffs my mind will explode.
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