Bucs sign Cato June

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

For 85% of the year, the Colts defense was embarrassing to say the least. And Chicago's defense wasn't exactly dominant in the 2nd half of the season, or the playoffs either.

Both Superbowl teams ran the Cover 2 system so to say it is "suckdom " is a vast overstatement on your part.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by 24cadillac24

Both Superbowl teams ran the Cover 2 system so to say it is "suckdom " is a vast overstatement on your part.

I can agree with that. Ive made it known that Im not a fan of the Cover 2/Tampa 2 scheme at all. So I sometimes generalize unfairly.

Ive just never seen a truely dominant Cover 2 defense. Only the 2001 Bucs had a dominant Cover 2. The rest of the Cover 2 teams were not that great quite honestly. Even these current Bears. Urlacher lost a lot of points in my eyes after Jeff Saturday destroyed him in the SB. 200 yards rushing is unexceptable if you want to take shots at the 85 Bears team the way Urlacher did. Especially when most of those 200 yards were right at you.

[draftguru151]

The June kids always know what they are getting for Christmas because daddy can't wrap anything up.

[JCshutEmDown]

25% of the Bucs schedule is against Michael Vick and Reggie Bush. June's speed is needed.

[Geo]

If you're going to copy/paste Football Outsiders' material, you should at least give credit.

Originally Posted by Indystar

“Cato really wanted to stay there [Indianapolis] and I know how badly they [Colts] wanted him,’’ Mackler said. “It just didn’t work out.’’

Agents are funny people.

June was instrumental in the Colts winning their first Super Bowl championship in 36 years.

June was much more instrumental in Mo Drew breaking runs of 20+ yards.

[TACKLE]

It will be interesting where he plays. Derrick Brooks is their current WLB and Cato June is certainly not fitted to play SAM backer. Wonder if they'll move Brooks to SAM.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

For 85% of the year, the Colts defense was embarrassing to say the least. And Chicago's defense wasn't exactly dominant in the 2nd half of the season, or the playoffs either.

When Tampa 2 teams lose their best DT and S, they tend to fall off a bit. For the Colts, they didn't have Simon at all, and Sanders missed most of the season, and for the Bears, the slide in performance of their defense corrolates perfectly with the losses of Mike Brown (when their run defense started to fall off) and Tommie Harris (when they started giving up points in bunches). You don't like the scheme and that's fine, but you're criticizing it a bit unfairly here.

[etk]

My only beef with the Cover 2 is how it is a bend but don't break defense, but Peyton Manning seems to just tear apart the Cover 2 with ease. Without the right players (Bucs 06), the Cover 2 doesn't get you enough big plays defensively.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

When Tampa 2 teams lose their best DT and S, they tend to fall off a bit. For the Colts, they didn't have Simon at all, and Sanders missed most of the season, and for the Bears, the slide in performance of their defense corrolates perfectly with the losses of Mike Brown (when their run defense started to fall off) and Tommie Harris (when they started giving up points in bunches). You don't like the scheme and that's fine, but you're criticizing it a bit unfairly here.

I don't want to turn this thread into a Cover 2 debate. And I'll cede the point that at times I can be unfair in my evaluation of the scheme.

But the issue bolded is a big problem for me scheme wise. The Cover 2 relies on the SS to stop the run the way normal defenses rely on ILBs. Now thats fine and dandy for one game, but over a 16 week season + playoffs, its awfully demanding of an undersized SS to hold up all season under these conditions. And thats why you see the SS get injured often, and Cover 2 teams taper off at the end of the season, when you want to be at your best.

I understand injuries can't be expected and are part of the game, but this scheme makes the SS much more susceptible to being injured, and thus I don't know if its a viable excuse. It should almost be expected, unless you have a John Lynch type of SS who is thick enough to handle the burden. But then, your pass coverage suffers, so its a double edged sword. The Cover 2 scheme is probably at its best if theres solid depth at SS. I think its essential to have 2 starting caliber strong safeties in this scheme if you don't want to see production taper off at the end of the season. A rotation would be ideal, keeping both fresh for the playoffs.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I don't want to turn this thread into a Cover 2 debate. And I'll cede the point that at times I can be unfair in my evaluation of the scheme.

But the issue bolded is a big problem for me scheme wise. The Cover 2 relies on the SS to stop the run the way normal defenses rely on ILBs. Now thats fine and dandy for one game, but over a 16 week season + playoffs, its awfully demanding of an undersized SS to hold up all season under these conditions. And thats why you see the SS get injured often, and Cover 2 teams taper off at the end of the season, when you want to be at your best.

I understand injuries can't be expected and are part of the game, but this scheme makes the SS much more susceptible to being injured, and thus I don't know if its a viable excuse. It should almost be expected, unless you have a John Lynch type of SS who is thick enough to handle the burden. But then, your pass coverage suffers, so its a double edged sword. The Cover 2 scheme is probably at its best if theres solid depth at SS. I think its essential to have 2 starting caliber strong safeties in this scheme if you don't want to see production taper off at the end of the season. A rotation would be ideal, keeping both fresh for the playoffs.

You make a valid point about safety depth being important to a Tampa 2 team, but in the same vein, LB depth is important to a team that relies on its LBs to be the playmakers of the defense. It's always tough to replace a good-great player at a position of key importance in any scheme. That said, your idea of a rotation intrigues me. It leads me to wonder even more what the Colts would have done had they had Sanders, Bethea, and Doss all healthy for the entire season. Perhaps a rotation would be for the best if a team has the talent and depth at the position to pull it off.

[Shiver]

Originally Posted by etk

Without the right players (Bucs 06), the Cover 2 doesn't get you enough big plays defensively.

That could be said about any scheme. Washington's 4-3 blitz of '06, Cleveland's 3-4 defense, for example off the top of my head. The Tampa 2 can be dominant, like the '99-'02 Bucs, the Bears when healthy the past two seasons. Overall, I don't care for 'bend but don't break' defenses, but they have been proven to work in the right situations.

[etk]

Originally Posted by Shiver

That could be said about any scheme. Washington's 4-3 blitz of '06, Cleveland's 3-4 defense, for example off the top of my head. The Tampa 2 can be dominant, like the '99-'02 Bucs, the Bears when healthy the past two seasons. Overall, I don't care for 'bend but don't break' defenses, but they have been proven to work in the right situations.

How did I know you would be the first smart person to point that out? I think the Cover 2 is the most dangerous defense to run without correct personnel, because if you can't make plays and stop the run in the Cover 2, you basically can't get your defense off the field. In a 3-4 blitz defense, you can occasionally get away with mediocre talent because the scheme alone can produce pressure and big plays.

[Shiver]

Originally Posted by etk

How did I know you would be the first smart person to point that out? I think the Cover 2 is the most dangerous defense to run without correct personnel, because if you can't make plays and stop the run in the Cover 2, you basically can't get your defense off the field. In a 3-4 blitz defense, you can occasionally get away with mediocre talent because the scheme alone can produce pressure and big plays.

Occasionally, sure. But eventually you'll be found out, just like Dallas this year. New Orleans exposed them at the end of the year. After that they couldn't stop the bleeding.

[MP123]

It's not surprising considering their history of losing linebackers in free agency. They've lost Gary Thornton to the Titans, Marcus Washington to the Redskins, Mike Peterson to the Jaguars, and Now Cato June to the Buccaneers. And I'm sure there are more to come in the future.

[Shiver]

My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.

[niel89]

Originally Posted by Shiver

My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.

i agree, you could have the best DC but if your players arent that talented and they cant execute then all that great scheme will fail. they need to go hand in hand to be truly effective

[smittyjs]

VY>>Cato June
Damn i'm going to miss playing against him two times a season :(

[smittyjs]

Originally Posted by MP123

It's not surprising considering their history of losing linebackers in free agency. They've lost Gary Thornton to the Titans, Marcus Washington to the Redskins, Mike Peterson to the Jaguars, and Now Cato June to the Buccaneers. And I'm sure there are more to come in the future.

David....;)

[a-dub83]

It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.

[tylerb929]

I think Hagler will play the weak side. He has a year more experience and thats where he is placed on the depth chart, plus his measurables were rediculous. Keiaho should replace Morris for strong side by the end of the year in my opinion.

I think it was a pretty good signing.

[cardsalltheway]

Originally Posted by a-dub83

It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.

I think Keiaho is going to be the future MIKE or SAM rather than play WILL. And like tylerb said, Hagler is going to make a run at a starting job too.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Shiver

My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.

My boy BP always says gameplan is overrated, execution is underrated.

But I will say this, while Im an X and O junky and love the schematics of the game, I think from a coaching standpoint, more important than the scheme itself is player utilization and adjustments. Thats what great coaches do.

[tylerb929]

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway

I think Keiaho is going to be the future MIKE or SAM rather than play WILL. And like tylerb said, Hagler is going to make a run at a starting job too.

Can't wait for Hagler to start.

Hagler's Campus/Combine results:
4.47 in the 40-yard dash
Bench pressed 225 pounds 35 times
445-pound bench press
485-pound squat
35½-inch vertical jump
10-foot-4 broad jump

[Philliez01]

Originally Posted by a-dub83

It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.

Keiaho is the future MIKE in my opinion. He'll probably see some time at SAM but I do not expect him to start to be honest. I know the coaching staff is high on him but I just see him as a perfect MIKE. He isn't a WILL because his coverage ability is lacking to say the least.