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Old 06-10-2010, 01:16 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think Buffalo could have a decent defense. Poz and Kawika inside, Maybin and Schoebel outside, Troup at NT. They have a good secondary.

If they run the ball like hell, which they claim they will, maybe this team will muster up 4 wins or so.

I still think St. Louis is worse than them on paper.
wow, I'm not the only non-Bills fan who likes the D they're building? Crazy. But I agree that secondary's really good and has one stud already, the DL should be a strength in a year or two when Troup and Carrington have gotten adjusted to the NFL and the LBs could be quite studly with Poz, Kawika and Moats filling the inside spots and Maybin getting put in a position to break out on the outside. The D could be pretty decent this year, with the transition to a new scheme they'll have some struggles but I think that in a year or two that D could really break out and become a top ten unit. Hopefully giving them a shot at Locker in next year's draft to leave LT as the only major hole on that offense.

I think the Rams are worse on paper because their D looks pretty bad at every position except DE and CB, although you and me both know that those are the two most important positions for spags to work his magic and I like that Rams offense. I'm a bradford fan and that OL is shaping up quite well. They lack a #1 receiver but they've got some solid weapons in Mardy, Avery and Sjax to go with Bradford and that rebuilt OL. So depending on what spags can do with the DE and CB talent he has I could see the Rams being surprisingly decent.

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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
Agree with it all. In my 2011 mock, I had them picking 3rd behind St. Louis and Tampa Bay....still got their QB in Locker at least.

When Spiller was drafted, I figured their run game might give them an extra win or two in 2010, but not getting a QB, LT or any other real worthwhile key position will hurt down the line...
Outside of QB and LT what real worthwhile key position should they have addressed? I could see the case for a pass rusher just because you can never have enough pass rushers, but I don't see a "key" another key need that they could've addressed. And the choices at QB and LT have been discussed ad nausieum already, like a lot of team they weren't buying Clausen as a franchise QB and the only LT worthy of that pick, Anthony Davis, scared them off with his weight and motivational issues giving them flashbacks to Peters who they had just had to trade away.

Would I have drafted Anthony Davis at that spot anyway? Yes, but you can see why they didn't. I like the guys they did draft a lot and think that in next years draft if they can get Locker they'll only have one real need and that'll be LT, a position they can address with their early second round pick either via the draft or a trade for Jared Gaither. After that all they really need is another pass rusher because you can never have enough pass rushers and depending on what happens with Hardy and Easley this year a second WR. This team really doesn't have that many needs left, they just have to find someone who'll take care of the biggest needs a team can have well, which is why I don't mind them passing on guys who were iffy solutions like Claussen and Davis.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 06-10-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Outside of QB and LT what real worthwhile key position should they have addressed? I could see the case for a pass rusher just because you can never have enough pass rushers, but I don't see a "key" another key need that they could've addressed. And the choices at QB and LT have been discussed ad nausieum already, like a lot of team they weren't buying Clausen as a franchise QB and the only LT worthy of that pick, Anthony Davis, scared them off with his weight and motivational issues giving them flashbacks to Peters who they had just had to trade away.

Would I have drafted Anthony Davis at that spot anyway? Yes, but you can see why they didn't. I like the guys they did draft a lot and think that in next years draft if they can get Locker they'll only have one real need and that'll be LT, a position they can address with their early second round pick either via the draft or a trade for Jared Gaither. After that all they really need is another pass rusher because you can never have enough pass rushers and depending on what happens with Hardy and Easley this year a second WR. This team really doesn't have that many needs left, they just have to find someone who'll take care of the biggest needs a team can have well, which is why I don't mind them passing on guys who were iffy solutions like Claussen and Davis.
Literally any position other than HB would have contributed more to this team over the long haul. I would have been willing to buy even a slight reach at just about any defensive position.

I think Spiller might net them an extra win or two this year, and now I'm truly hoping that puts them out of range to get Locker/whoever the top QB ends up being just for my own kicks. Kind of like joking that the Lions take a WR every year now...
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Literally any position other than HB would have contributed more to this team over the long haul.
See, I'm thinking about it another way. Almost any position besides HB would have helped them not be terrible in 2010, but Lynch isn't likely to be a Bill much longer and Fred Jackson will be 30 after this season. Chain Gailey's offense needs a runner and a runner was going to be a huge need really soon, so they jumped the gun and took a runner good enough that they won't have to address that down the road.

I really don't have a problem with the pick. The Bills offense is in a state that picking BPA is totally acceptable. I wonder if people would be more inclined to accept the pick if Buffalo's 2nd choice had been Tebow, not Troupe, but I guess we'll never know.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Literally any position other than HB would have contributed more to this team over the long haul. I would have been willing to buy even a slight reach at just about any defensive position.

I think Spiller might net them an extra win or two this year, and now I'm truly hoping that puts them out of range to get Locker/whoever the top QB ends up being just for my own kicks. Kind of like joking that the Lions take a WR every year now...
Since I've already talked about QB and LT lets look at the other positions they could've picked. WR, they could've reached on Bey Bey or gambled with Dez, but they've already got a #1 and a good slot guy. At the second spot they have Hardy coming into his 3rd season, which is the year many receivers put it together and Hardy has plax potential. At TE they've got Schouman who's solid and Nelson who was a very popular prospect last year, so reaching for Gresham doesn't make too much sense. So offensively the only other reasonable pick would've been to gamble on Dez at a position that they're much better off at than RB where Marshawn's days seem to be numbered and Freddie who may not have the wear and tear but is still fast approaching 30.

Defensively they have a very good young secondary, easily the strength of that team, with its best player playing the position that the only DB worthy of 9th overall selection plays. So lets throw secondary out as a possible destination and move on to the DL which was a gaping hole. Now what DL could they have taken that high? I see Dan Williams and Jared Odrick, two guys who went in the 20s on draft day and two guys who's upgrade over Troup and Carrington who they did pick up isn't as massive as the difference between Spiller and whatever RB they would've had a shot at. At LB they've got a good group of inside backers and Aaron Maybin, another pass rusher makes sense but of the top DEs which one was a good fit for the 3-4? I loved Graham and JPP but I don't think either one is ideal in a 3-4 and the only other guy, Morgan, is a terrible fit in the 3-4.

So out of every other position on the field it comes down to Spiller vs Dez and Graham. Admittedly I wasn't the biggest spiller fan, but if he's CJ2k 2.0 it's really hard to say they made a mistake taking him instead of a poor schematic fit in Graham or a character concern in Dez.

Honestly I don't expect too much from Spiller this year, he's still going to be sharing carries with Freddie and Marshawn for a year and with no passing game that won't be enough to prevent them from being in position to at least trade up for one of the top QBs. But Next year when Marshawn's gone and Freddie's workload starts getting lessened I think Spiller will prove a great weapon out of the backfield for whomever's starting under center next year. As I've said before I really like what they've done defensively and if they nab Locker and an LT next year that offense is pretty well set up for Locker to succeed. Talented RBs who both excel out of the backfield, a strong interior OL, a new LT, good pair of TEs, a legit go to receiver, a strong slot guy and some talent at the other WR spot.

QB - Locker
RB - Spiller/Fast Freddie
TE - Schouman/Nelson
WR - Evans, Hardy/Easley and Reed
LT - Gaither or Rookie
LG - Woods
C - Hangartner
RG - Levitre
RT - Meredith

That's a good young offense if Locker's the guy most of us think he is that can burn a lot of teams with big plays and has the guys to move the chains regularly as well.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 06-10-2010 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I stand by my belief that Spiller is going to get them a win or two more in 2010. I believe this, and if that were the goal, they'd be set.

If Spiller becomes another CJ, good for them....highly unlikely though. CJ is a super speedster who's proven to able to handle the full load at the NFL level, making him all sorts of threatening. Plus Tennessee's o-line looks absolutely godly compared to Buffalo's. That's a lot to hope for out of any player you take....

I think Buffalo is doomed for another 5 years of mediocrity at best. You like their defense, and their secondary...fine....Maybin showed nothing as a rookie, just read on PFT earlier today that Schobel is retiring (link at bottom of post,) Kyle Williams is their only old d-lineman I can name and you'd have to be crazy to believe him to be a good 3-4 fit...Ok, I lied, I can name Stroud too but he's a few years on the wrong side of 30 (32 I believe)....Troup was a need filler but a reach by at least a full round.....Alex Carrington is likely going to be a project...

The o-line is probably one of the worst I've seen in the last few years...good luck to whichever QB wins the job and good luck to the runners who have to run behind it.

Their division has 3 teams gunning for the playoffs and hoping for the Superbowl who are probably going to badly beat up on Buffalo.

They had better just hope they don't lose out on the top QBs of next year....If Luck were to not come out and either Locker or Mallett were to struggle and hurt their stock, the Bills very well could find themselves with someone like Christian Ponder at QB.

And I will laugh.

Schobel link: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ing-to-retire/ (not 100% official, but he doesn't sound like a player who wants to play next year, even with a lot of money still on the table.)
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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5 years is a long way down the road. If Buffalo hits on a quarterback in the 2011 draft and, say, signs Jared Gaither during the free agency period, they could easily fight their way out of the basement of their tough division.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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They'll suck next year, but that was a given. Their OL gets a lot of heat but that interior is coming along quite nicely and with a quality LT they'd suddenly find themselves with an average to above average OL, especially if they get a smart QB that doesn't make them look worse.

We strongly disagree on Troup though since I think he was a 2nd round lock and was a modest reach at best. Maybin was very raw coming out and is going to take time, but next year will be his 3rd in the league in a scheme that's perfect for him to flourish and I think he'll be a stud then.

And even if Spiller can prove to be a win or two better than the Fast Freddie and Marshawn combo they'll still be bad enough to be in position for a top QB given that the teams that profile to be worse than them already have their franchise QBs. I just don't see 5 years of mediocrity with this team. I see 2 or 3 years before they're a playoff caliber team and depending on just how good their young talent gets they could be an elite caliber team by then.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Did Spiller, Maybin, Troupe, and Hardy already prove to be raging successes? Two haven't even played a professional down, one's been oft injured and the other barely even played as a rookie.

Also, first round QBs seem to have about a 50% hit or miss rate. So it's a lot to assume that they'll not only take one next year, but he'll be successful.

And if Gaither were so great, why was (is?) Baltimore so actively trying to move him? There are some theories out there that they had too many players that would need big contracts coming up soon for them to be able to resign him, and they have Oher.....ok, but the fact that no one was even willing to give them a 2nd round pick (which was the asking price around draft time iirc) for a "franchise" caliber LT makes me think theres a lot more to the situation than we know.

And that's all only important if Buffalo signed him...which who knows about that.

So many "if's" abound with this team. Honestly, if you looked at the NFL as a whole, and had to try and figure out where each team would be in 3 years (we won't even go to the 5 I was saying earlier,) you'd have to have Buffalo in your bottom 3 teams. At least.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:12 AM    (permalink
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The CJ Spiller pick was one of the worst picks in recent memory for me. A team with massive needs at QB/LT/WR/DL/LB and they take a running back who will be in a rotation and get 15 touches tops? It makes no sense to me. Then again, when you draft like this it explains why the Bills haven't been relevant in so long.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:38 AM    (permalink
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The CJ Spiller pick was one of the worst picks in recent memory for me. A team with massive needs at QB/LT/WR/DL/LB and they take a running back who will be in a rotation and get 15 touches tops? It makes no sense to me. Then again, when you draft like this it explains why the Bills haven't been relevant in so long.
Massive needs at WR and LB? Evans is a quality number one and Reed is a good slot guy. They don't have an answer at the 2nd WR spot yet but this is James Hardy's third season so I'm not ready to write him off yet, plus they added a nice project in the 4th round incase Hardy doesn't work out. And at LB they've got Maybin who I think will become a stud over the next two years in that 3-4 and a number of solid high motor guys across from him. The ILBs are strong.

DL was a massive need that they addressed well while QB and LT remain massive holes, but for a team that was in Buffalo's shoes they were going to come out of this draft with some holes either way, the question was do you hurry to fill the "more important" hole or do you pick the better players at the "less important" hole that you were going to have to fill anyway? Plus Spiller also impacts that WR need giving them yet another weapon to go with the WRs and TEs for whomever they bring in next year to step into a good situation that makes the jump easier on the guy.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:17 AM    (permalink
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Reasons to not pay CJ:

1. He has a very good OL which helps his production
2. He plays in the AFC south which is CLEARLY built to stop Peyton Manning and not running backs.
3. Running backs are a dime a dozen.

He's a really good running back, but I don't see breaking the bank for him as a smart move. Sure, it sucks for him... but that's the reality of the NFL.
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Josh Reed is not even on the team anymore, Rosebud. We have a big hole at #2 WR (possibly all WR spots with Evans as an uninspiring #1) that I don't have the easiest time seeing being filled by one of the guys on our roster.

If Troup can be a fine NT then I like our DL a good amount. I liked the Edwards pick up, Spencer Johnson is good depth fit, Stroud is alright and Carrington can be good in the future with those guys holding it down for now. I'd love for Kyle Williams to have a place with this team moving forward but I just don't see it.

And I will gladly take that extra win or two, Herr Baron.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Josh Reed is not even on the team anymore, Rosebud. We have a big hole at #2 WR (possibly all WR spots with Evans as an uninspiring #1) that I don't have the easiest time seeing being filled by one of the guys on our roster.

If Troup can be a fine NT then I like our DL a good amount. I liked the Edwards pick up, Spencer Johnson is good depth fit, Stroud is alright and Carrington can be good in the future with those guys holding it down for now. I'd love for Kyle Williams to have a place with this team moving forward but I just don't see it.

And I will gladly take that extra win or two, Herr Baron.
*embarassed* Well umm, they've got Naamon if Stevie can't pull it off in the slot...

The number 2 spot is a concern, I was just a really big fan of Hardy's when he was coming out and this is his third year so I see him finally putting it together and forming a strong duo with Evans.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Lee Evans would be one of the league's best #2 WR, but he is not a #1. But with Brian Brohm it doesn't really matter who they have.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with the Bills draft at all. They stuck to their board and clearly they didn't see anything they wanted in Clausen (apparently not the only team...) and weren't impressed with Anthony Davis. I'm not going to fault the team for not taking players they weren't enamored with just because they filled the generally aknowledged "Imporant positions."

I wouldn't be comfortable gambling on players at LT and QB who apparently weren't scouted as being great fits for the organization just because they play positions of need for the team. Apparently the Bills weren't either.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with the Bills draft at all. They stuck to their board and clearly they didn't see anything they wanted in Clausen (apparently not the only team...) and weren't impressed with Anthony Davis. I'm not going to fault the team for not taking players they weren't enamored with just because they filled the generally aknowledged "Imporant positions."
Sure the Bills stuck to their board, but do the Bills have a recent history of drafting well?
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Sure the Bills stuck to their board, but do the Bills have a recent history of drafting well?
No worse than most teams, and this is the first draft for the new Bills regime anyways so that hardly matters.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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No worse than most teams, and this is the first draft for the new Bills regime anyways so that hardly matters.
I thought they only hired a new head coach, my mistake. Just because a team stuck to a big board does not mean anything though.
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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For the confused...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...caa_going.html
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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BUMP.


Can a mod please sticky this thread. Thanks.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true

Alex Boone, former Buckeye OT, fights his former demons.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Alex Boone, former Buckeye OT, fights his former demons.
"I'm going to break you like a wild horse,"

Mike Singletary is awesome.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Boone was so ******* terrible at Ohio State. I can't believe they're even thinking about trying him as a LT, he has some of the slowest feet I've ever seen.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Mike Singletary is a below average game coach, but he sure is one hell of a motivator.

He just needs more time to learn how to be a coach, and he'll do good things. He has a lot of work to do from Xs and Os, and game management to be considered a good coach to me.

But no one in the league can motivate better than he can.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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http://www.freep.com/article/2010062...056/1049/rss14

Lions president Tom Lewand busted for DUI.
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