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Old 02-08-2011, 03:38 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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WHat do you guys think about Prince in comparison to Charles Woodson? They may not be elite cover corners without top end speed, but elite DB's nonetheless.

Their body types and movements are identical, and they even have the same number..

If anything, prince is just stronger.
I don't see it all at. There's no way I see Prince as the next Charles Woodson. No way. There's not another Charles Woodson in the NFL now!
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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I made a mock draft where we gave up our 1st, 2nd and next year's 2nd to move up to #2 with Denver to take Peterson. Some Cowboys fans bashed me for giving up too much. *sigh*

I'm willing to do whatever it takes! There's not a single player in the draft that can turn this team around like he could. That's my opinion. He's the Dez Bryant of DBs!!!
When it comes to players like Patrick Peterson there is no amount that would be considered "too much" outside of a Ricky Williams type deal. Two 2nds is a no brainer for me to land a player of THAT caliber at THAT position for us.

It's funny because all of the Cowboys fans I know or have seen on other boards are either big time Peterson homers like us or want nothing to do with him and have Prince rated higher. It's like those fans don't want to believe PP is as good as advertised, but he is!
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't see it all at. There's no way I see Prince as the next Charles Woodson. No way. There's not another Charles Woodson in the NFL now!
What do you think of the Peterson-Woodson comparison? To me PP is the reincarnation, that's why I'm drooling over his playmaking abilities.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I made a mock draft where we gave up our 1st, 2nd and next year's 2nd to move up to #2 with Denver to take Peterson. Some Cowboys fans bashed me for giving up too much. *sigh*

I'm willing to do whatever it takes! There's not a single player in the draft that can turn this team around like he could. That's my opinion. He's the Dez Bryant of DBs!!!
I'll take credit for the "Dez Bryant of DB's" analogy, that was all me!

As for Peterson to Woodson, finisher, I don't see it. Peterson is way bigger and flashier.

I don't see how you don't think Prince compares to him. They are the same guy. They may not be a corner cause they don't have the speed but they aren't a safety either. They are very similar in my opinion.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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I'll take credit for the "Dez Bryant of DB's" analogy, that was all me!

As for Peterson to Woodson, finisher, I don't see it. Peterson is way bigger and flashier.

I don't see how you don't think Prince compares to him. They are the same guy. They may not be a corner cause they don't have the speed but they aren't a safety either. They are very similar in my opinion.
Charles Woodson wasn't flashy at UM??? What!?

Prince isn't the same type of playmaker, that's what made Woodson so great throughout his career. Plus he could play any position in the secondary at a high level(like PP could), you could do anything with Woodson he's even an awesome blitzer from his Rover spot with the Pack.

When I think Woodson I think playmaker, I just don't see that with Prince but I see all of it in Peterson.

PP's the type of guy you want to let roam around and make plays. Prince is a guy who needs to stick to shadowing #1s all game, like Revis.

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Old 02-08-2011, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I just meant possible style of play, and body type/fluidity. I'm not saying Prince is gonna be charles woodson.

Either way, I just want this draft come bro!
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Well first off, Welcome to the forum Bonzai! Nice first post.

I think that's a pretty interesting mock. I agree with the needs you addressed there. I also noticed that you listed Amukamara as a Safety option. Do you really think that is a viable possibility? We've had discussions here about that, but would like to know how you feel about it. Peterson would be ideal but I'm picking with what spots we have, obviously we would have to trade up to get him.

I like Hudson enough to be happy with him as an OG or C. Preferably C. Powe is not someone I'm particularly high on, but he could be a better NT than I think he will be. Interesting to see Stanzi there. Not many have mocked us taking a QB, but I wouldn't be against it there. I'm not sold on McGee at all. I like Marecic and I think a good FB would do wonders for this team at a cheap cost, so I'm hoping we upgrade Gronk. I don't think McCarthy lasts that long, and getting Hagg that late is a good gamble, imo.
Thanks for the welcome.

I think Amukamara at safety is more of a potential possibility than anything. I think he CAN play there but he will probably be CB before a S. We still got Akwasi who may turn out to be a player for us at S or CB and we have 3 CBs that SHOULD be playing like bosses out there, but that's for next season to determine. So I'm not really sure where he fits necessarily, but even at just CB I think we would take him. Even for the sake of him being BPA right there, I'm assuming.

My relative unfamiliarity with the prospects probably showed in the later rounds.

I sorta just picked Powe like a name in a hat, but reading up on him it sounded like some positive stuff.

I tried to fit McCarthy in there a round or two earlier, but ended up pushing him that late, hoping for a draft slide. From my reading I get he's more of a Keith Brooking type, a little slower than ideal but great leadership abilities. Brooking worked out well the first year, so if we could get a guy like that it would be nice. I actually am a bigger fan of Bruce Miller and think he would be a better ILB and become an insane tackling machine with the ability to run some nice blitzes.

Gronkowski is only here by default...after getting Romo killed I think his PT dropped pretty low. Marecic would be awesome but i think the Niners get him 2 picks ahead of us with the Harbaugh connection.

I think Stanzi would fit nicely in the 4th round, but im not sure if the Cowboys take him. I guess it depends on what Garrett thinks of McGee; since he wasn't a Garrett pick i think he might be considered to be replaced.

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Old 02-08-2011, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't really get into comparisons because they just are never close enough for me. Each player is different in too many ways.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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I really don't like your guys' options at #9. I know a lot of you probably feel the same way. I'm not sold on Prince and I don't like Cam Jordan in a 34. I know D wants Miller but its looking less and less like he'll be there. Assuming you guys stay at #9, what would you think about drafting Robert Quinn? Obviously it would be a luxury pick but I wouldn't rule it out. And you know Jerruh is going to want to make a splash with his top ten seleciton.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I really don't like your guys' options at #9. I know a lot of you probably feel the same way. I'm not sold on Prince and I don't like Cam Jordan in a 34. I know D wants Miller but its looking less and less like he'll be there. Assuming you guys stay at #9, what would you think about drafting Robert Quinn? Obviously it would be a luxury pick but I wouldn't rule it out. And you know Jerruh is going to want to make a splash with his top ten seleciton.
don't like Cameron Jordan in a 3-4? If you can't like him as a 3-4 end then who fits the billing? haha...while he has scheme versatility as a left end in the 4-3, there's no denying he has the ability to play end in the 3-4 given what he's done his days at Cal and what his skill set fits.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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don't like Cameron Jordan in a 3-4? If you can't like him as a 3-4 end then who fits the billing? haha...while he has scheme versatility as a left end in the 4-3, there's no denying he has the ability to play end in the 3-4 given what he's done his days at Cal and what his skill set fits.
My thoughts on him have changed significantly as of late. Here's my post on the subject from earlier today.

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The one thing I do disagree on is Cameron Jordan being more scheme diverse. I've very much changed my tune on is what position Jordan belongs at. He needs to be a LE in a 4-3 all the way. If he can drop 10lbs that would be even better. As a 3-4 DE he worries me some and think he may struggle there especially in a two gap scheme. Despite having the right size for a 5-tech being 6'4 and just under 290, he is a finesse player. When lined up inside, I've yet to see him flash impressive power and he doesn't have much of a bull rush at all. He can hold his ground in the interior but he's not going to be a guy who can overpower guards inside. IMO, he just lacks the physicality to be a full time interior player. Whereas playing LE in the 4-3 caters much more to his strengths. He has a really nice repertoire of pass rush moves, he's quick off the ball, can get up field and turn the corner. In a 4-3, I'm a believer in Cam Jordan. In a 3-4, not so much. I know most would probably disagree but that's just what I see when I watch him.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't consider Jordan a finese player but rather a player who is very gifted in the way he is able to use his hands and doesn't rely solely on his brute strength from the guy across from him to win the battle.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Anyone give me constructive criticism for my Cowboys mock, want to really get my next mock straight.

For the full mock and who you could have picked instead: http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...74#post2514574

Just by quick glance probably should have taken out one of the safeties and probably go either OLB or ILB. Tried to get guys I thought would make the roster though.

9) Dallas (6-10) Prince Amukamara/CB/Nebraska
40) Dallas (6-10) Rahim Moore/S/UCLA
71) Dallas (6-10) Kendrick Ellis/NT/Hampton
109) Dallas (6-10) DeMarcus Love/OL/Arkansas
140) Dallas (6-10) Robert Sands/S/West Virginia
171) Dallas (6-10) Jeremy Kerley/WR/PR/TCU
209) Dallas - from San Diego (9-7) Alex Henery/K/Nebraska
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Anyone give me constructive criticism for my Cowboys mock, want to really get my next mock straight.

For the full mock and who you could have picked instead: http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...74#post2514574

Just by quick glance probably should have taken out one of the safeties and probably go either OLB or ILB. Tried to get guys I thought would make the roster though.

9) Dallas (6-10) Prince Amukamara/CB/Nebraska
40) Dallas (6-10) Rahim Moore/S/UCLA
71) Dallas (6-10) Kendrick Ellis/NT/Hampton
109) Dallas (6-10) DeMarcus Love/OL/Arkansas
140) Dallas (6-10) Robert Sands/S/West Virginia
171) Dallas (6-10) Jeremy Kerley/WR/PR/TCU
209) Dallas - from San Diego (9-7) Alex Henery/K/Nebraska
I'd take it. I like seeing what outsiders have to think. I think all of those guys could make the team. Favorite pick is Ellis. Least favorite pick is Moore. Not sure he's physical enough for Rob's defense. Also, you might consider Prince as a Safety for us, and in that case, then you've given us 3 safeties. ... heck, we need as much help as we can get though... I can picture our draft being worse, so I'm happy with that.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't consider Jordan a finese player but rather a player who is very gifted in the way he is able to use his hands and doesn't rely solely on his brute strength from the guy across from him to win the battle.
When I say finesse, by no means do I mean soft. His style of play is to get off the ball quick, put a move on whether that be a hand swap, quick rip, etc. and try to get up field after the passer. He said it himself in his interview with Scott when he said, "What I need to work on is sometimes I get too focused on the pass rush and I forget about playing the run." IMO this is an accurate criticism. The thing is, in almost every scheme with only a few exceptions, 3-4 DE's are asked to two gap and eat up blocks. You need some brute strength and power to play that position effectively in most schemes. That role just isn't conducive to Jordan's style of play. He's at his best when he's allowed to get up field hard and use his hands in pass rush. I'd much rather line him up at LE in a 4-3 and let him do that on a regular basis than have him inside, anchoring against double teams and eating up blocks for linebackers in a position where he doesn't get to utilize his rush skills nearly as much.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I really don't like your guys' options at #9. I know a lot of you probably feel the same way. I'm not sold on Prince and I don't like Cam Jordan in a 34. I know D wants Miller but its looking less and less like he'll be there. Assuming you guys stay at #9, what would you think about drafting Robert Quinn? Obviously it would be a luxury pick but I wouldn't rule it out. And you know Jerruh is going to want to make a splash with his top ten seleciton.
I really would like Miller but only because I project him to have value lining up at ILB as well as OLB. Miller is more fluid and versatile as a linebacker. Quinn is a traditional 4-3 DE who I think would struggle if asked to cover a wide range or drop back in coverage. Because of those limitations, I would not want him here. I think we would just mimick Anthony Spencer who has those same problems. Miller was great on a bad team. Quinn was good on a great team. I have my doubts about Quinn.

My wishlist goes:

1. Patrick Peterson





2. Nick Fairley
3. Von Miller
4. Marcell Dareus
5. Prince Amukamara
6. Cameron Jordan
7. Daquan Bowers
8. Tyron Smith
9. Brandon Harris
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Anyone give me constructive criticism for my Cowboys mock, want to really get my next mock straight.

For the full mock and who you could have picked instead: http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...74#post2514574

Just by quick glance probably should have taken out one of the safeties and probably go either OLB or ILB. Tried to get guys I thought would make the roster though.

9) Dallas (6-10) Prince Amukamara/CB/Nebraska
40) Dallas (6-10) Rahim Moore/S/UCLA
71) Dallas (6-10) Kendrick Ellis/NT/Hampton
109) Dallas (6-10) DeMarcus Love/OL/Arkansas
140) Dallas (6-10) Robert Sands/S/West Virginia
171) Dallas (6-10) Jeremy Kerley/WR/PR/TCU
209) Dallas - from San Diego (9-7) Alex Henery/K/Nebraska
This would be a pretty good draft but the draft gods must shine upon dallas to do that, and after what happened for Jerry at the superbowl I doubt it. Prince probably wont fall, and Moore is the number one overall saftey there is a good chance he will be gone as well. Other than that i think i would take Ben Ijalana in the third round thats a good gaurd, right takle combo. My favorite pick kerley, that a explosive guy for the slot and kick returner.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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This would be a pretty good draft but the draft gods must shine upon dallas to do that, and after what happened for Jerry at the superbowl I doubt it. Prince probably wont fall, and Moore is the number one overall saftey there is a good chance he will be gone as well. Other than that i think i would take Ben Ijalana in the third round thats a good gaurd, right takle combo. My favorite pick kerley, that a explosive guy for the slot and kick returner.
Welcome to the forum dominator17.

Tell us about yourself! :)
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Default The Dominator cowboy Mock Draft

This may not be what people want to see but without trading up or down I think this may be the best way to go. First of all draft needs secondary(corners and saftey), offensive line(Left guard and right tackle) and a defensive end. Depth is needed at reciever Roy williams leaving, running back marion baber gone, and yes quarterback sorry aggies Kitna is old and stephen Mcgee will never have it. So here it is

1. Nate solder (cowboys will have their choice of tackle but this guy could be better than dougie.) No prince, peterson or dareus will be available.
2. Brandon Burton- we need a guy that can scheme he can do both, but come combine he may jump up boards so i think Ras-I Dowling, or aaron williams would be a fall back.
3.Jarvis Jenkins- depending on how he works out he is a second round talent, so if he isnt lander i think sione fua could take over at nt and kick ratliffe to the edge
4. Will Hill- someone who can cover but he has character issues so an alternative might be Tejay Johnson not as fast but will tackle better.
5.Lee Ziemba- short arms not great against the speed rush. It isnt a good idea to have a rookie as a backup to a rookie, but ziemba is a mauler who could be kicked into tackle and has the ability to backup RT.
6. Tyrod Taylor- Vick might have sparked a fire again for the mobile quarterback, if not Ponder comes home to the metroplex or we get the next flacco devlin. Quaterback pick might be controversial but does Romo have it.
7. Roy helu- I think helu stock is going to land him in the middle when all is over, so stevan ridley could work. really anyone that is bruiser,they tend to fall because a lack of speed but with choice and jones we need a change of pace. Barber gone

Please respond with what you think becuase I am never sure about middle and late round prospect jumping up or falling.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to the forum dominator17.

Tell us about yourself! :)
I love the draft
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominator17 View Post
This may not be what people want to see but without trading up or down I think this may be the best way to go. First of all draft needs secondary(corners and saftey), offensive line(Left guard and right tackle) and a defensive end. Depth is needed at reciever Roy williams leaving, running back marion baber gone, and yes quarterback sorry aggies Kitna is old and stephen Mcgee will never have it. So here it is

1. Nate solder (cowboys will have their choice of tackle but this guy could be better than dougie.) No prince, peterson or dareus will be available.
2. Brandon Burton- we need a guy that can scheme he can do both, but come combine he may jump up boards so i think Ras-I Dowling, or aaron williams would be a fall back.
3.Jarvis Jenkins- depending on how he works out he is a second round talent, so if he isnt lander i think sione fua could take over at nt and kick ratliffe to the edge
4. Will Hill- someone who can cover but he has character issues so an alternative might be Tejay Johnson not as fast but will tackle better.
5.Lee Ziemba- short arms not great against the speed rush. It isnt a good idea to have a rookie as a backup to a rookie, but ziemba is a mauler who could be kicked into tackle and has the ability to backup RT.
6. Tyrod Taylor- Vick might have sparked a fire again for the mobile quarterback, if not Ponder comes home to the metroplex or we get the next flacco devlin. Quaterback pick might be controversial but does Romo have it.
7. Roy helu- I think helu stock is going to land him in the middle when all is over, so stevan ridley could work. really anyone that is bruiser,they tend to fall because a lack of speed but with choice and jones we need a change of pace. Barber gone

Please respond with what you think becuase I am never sure about middle and late round prospect jumping up or falling.
I am not a fan of Solder. I think he is a developmental prospect and because of that, he doesn't deserve a 1st round pick. Doug Free was a developmental guy... we took him in the 4th. That's my philosophy, at least. Definitely agree that we need to address RT though. So if we did take Solder in trade down, then I would just pray that I'm wrong about him and hope for the best.

I prefer Aaron Williams and Ras-I ahead of Burton personally, but we do need CB help.

No opinion on Will Hill. Tyrod Taylor as QB of the Dallas Cowboys is a scary nightmare. Ziemba at that point is fine. Helu will probably be gone by Round 7.

Sooo.... you're a new poster here... Planning on sticking around or are you just stopping by?
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
Anyone give me constructive criticism for my Cowboys mock, want to really get my next mock straight.

For the full mock and who you could have picked instead: http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...74#post2514574

Just by quick glance probably should have taken out one of the safeties and probably go either OLB or ILB. Tried to get guys I thought would make the roster though.

9) Dallas (6-10) Prince Amukamara/CB/Nebraska
40) Dallas (6-10) Rahim Moore/S/UCLA
71) Dallas (6-10) Kendrick Ellis/NT/Hampton
109) Dallas (6-10) DeMarcus Love/OL/Arkansas
140) Dallas (6-10) Robert Sands/S/West Virginia
171) Dallas (6-10) Jeremy Kerley/WR/PR/TCU
209) Dallas - from San Diego (9-7) Alex Henery/K/Nebraska
I'm all for that draft. Jeremy Kearley would be a steal.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I've tried to read as much as I could of this thread but at 39 pages, that wasn't quite possible. However, here are my thoughts...

- I'm a huge fan of Cam Jordan, and would feel great about him at #9. The guy seems like he'd add another dimension to our pass rush, and could really help Rat avoid double teams as well as whichever OLB is on his side because he could likely set a more effective edge than Igor. Throw in the fact that we have so many DE's that are set to hit the market, and this seems like a match made in heaven honestly.

- Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion on Peterson/Prince, and I completely understand the potential concerns for both. Here's what I do know though, and it's something that I think we can almost all agree on... there are no perfect prospects, and if one of these two guys is available at #9, the advantages of taking them FAR exceeds the risk. So... if you think there's a chance PP might be too big to be an elite CB... who cares! We have the 9th pick, not the 1st, and the possibility of him becoming that elite CB for us is absolutely worth it.

- I large part of me would really like to focus heavily on the OL. This would involve a trade down into the teens or 20's, picking up one or more picks, and taking Carimi.

- What if AJ Green is there? I completely realize that taking a WR is not in the best interest of our team, but there's almost no doubt that he'd be the best available player on the board, and by a wide margin. We need to be prepared for this scenario.

If I had to make a guess at what is going to happen I'd say that either Prince or Jordan should be there, and should be the pick. If for some reason neither of them are there, that necessarily means that a guy we didn't expect to be there is in fact there (Dareus?). It's going to be a heck of a lot of fun, and we HAVE TO ace this draft to get back into the playoffs.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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We would never draft AJ Green, unless we wanted to trade him at the time of the draft. Barring something unforseen, like an injury or an arrest charge popping up, he's not gonna be there anyway. Austin is fresh off of a huge contract, Dez is ready to emerge and it's obvious he wants the ball, besides Green might be bpa but you don't always stick by that. Top 10 we have a shot at an All Pro type player, AJ Green would make me punch things, even Jerry isn't that stupid.



I guess I can't get on board as much with Cameron Jordan at #9. Top 10 yes but I think he'd be there later on, even if we only got a 3rd from the move back. Maybe I need to watch more, but he doesn't have me thrilled as a top 10 option just yet.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 21BoysFan21 View Post
I've tried to read as much as I could of this thread but at 39 pages, that wasn't quite possible. However, here are my thoughts...

- I'm a huge fan of Cam Jordan, and would feel great about him at #9. The guy seems like he'd add another dimension to our pass rush, and could really help Rat avoid double teams as well as whichever OLB is on his side because he could likely set a more effective edge than Igor. Throw in the fact that we have so many DE's that are set to hit the market, and this seems like a match made in heaven honestly.

- Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion on Peterson/Prince, and I completely understand the potential concerns for both. Here's what I do know though, and it's something that I think we can almost all agree on... there are no perfect prospects, and if one of these two guys is available at #9, the advantages of taking them FAR exceeds the risk. So... if you think there's a chance PP might be too big to be an elite CB... who cares! We have the 9th pick, not the 1st, and the possibility of him becoming that elite CB for us is absolutely worth it.

- I large part of me would really like to focus heavily on the OL. This would involve a trade down into the teens or 20's, picking up one or more picks, and taking Carimi.

- What if AJ Green is there? I completely realize that taking a WR is not in the best interest of our team, but there's almost no doubt that he'd be the best available player on the board, and by a wide margin. We need to be prepared for this scenario.

If I had to make a guess at what is going to happen I'd say that either Prince or Jordan should be there, and should be the pick. If for some reason neither of them are there, that necessarily means that a guy we didn't expect to be there is in fact there (Dareus?). It's going to be a heck of a lot of fun, and we HAVE TO ace this draft to get back into the playoffs.
Sweet Craziness! 3 new Cowboys posters today! Welcome aboard. Hope you become a frequent poster. If you do plan to, please tell us about yourself.

I agree... we need to ace this draft!
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