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Old 07-19-2010, 09:42 PM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post


You are a gold mine for stupid quotes.


You fail to ever back up any of your claims. Typical sniper post is "well that is just dumb cause i say so, here are my facts oh wait i dont have any". You fail to deliver
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Owens got a ring? am i missing something? a year? Owens has ring?
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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The lack of kickers in this thread is sad, Jan Stenerud is lonely.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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adam vinatieri is the one I can think of.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
You fail to ever back up any of your claims.
Wait, what?

Quote:
Typical sniper post is "well that is just dumb cause i say so, here are my facts oh wait i dont have any". You fail to deliver
Christ, grammar won't kill you. Give it a whirl. You want facts? Here are some facts for you.

In his rookie season, Moss averaged 19.0 (!!!) yards per catch and scored 17 touchdowns. Yes, rookie. As in first year in the pros. 1,313 yards and 17 touchdowns. He has nine double-digit touchdown seasons. He holds the NFL record for most touchdown receptions in one season. He altered the way defenses schemed. Period. Moss would routinely get triple-covered and still come down with the catch. His combination of size, speed, agility, leaping ability, and ability to make the circus-catch have not been and will never be duplicated. He is the most skilled receiver in history.

Also, I have no idea what the **** was going on in your rep comment. Was "What's that all abut, eh?" supposed to funny? Creative? A dig at the fact that I'm Canadian? Was there a point to it? Did you think that it'd be awesome to say a stereotypical line that no Canadian actually uses? I'm not sure.

Last edited by Sniper : 07-19-2010 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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adam vinatieri is the one I can think of.
How about Jason Elam?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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adam vinatieri is the only one.
Pretty much sums it up.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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How about Jason Elam?
I would vote for him if a I had a vote and I'm a Chiefs fan so that should tell you how I feel about him, he has crushed many of my dreams.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:15 PM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Wait, what?



Christ, grammar won't kill you. Give it a whirl. You want facts? Here are some facts for you.

In his rookie season, Moss averaged 19.0 (!!!) yards per catch and scored 17 touchdowns. Yes, rookie. As in first year in the pros. 1,313 yards and 17 touchdowns. He has nine double-digit touchdown seasons. He holds the NFL record for most touchdown receptions in one season. He altered the way defenses schemed. Period. Moss would routinely get triple-covered and still come down with the catch. His combination of size, speed, agility, leaping ability, and ability to make the circus-catch have not been and will never be duplicated. He is the most skilled receiver in history.

Also, I have no idea what the **** was going on in your rep comment. Was "What's that all abut, eh?" supposed to funny? Creative? A dig at the fact that I'm Canadian? Was there a point to it? Did you think that it'd be awesome to say a stereotypical line that no Canadian actually uses? I'm not sure.
- LDT has the single season TD record for a running back
-9 consecutive double digit TD's
-4th most yards from scrimmage in a season
- 8th in rushing
- 2nd most rushing TD's

Tomlinson was undoubtedly the best runningback of his generation. Moss is very debatable.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Jason Hanson is the great Lions hope. Then Jeff Backus.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Tomlinson vs. Moss....


Tough call, but I would go with Tomlinson. He was the most dynamic offensive weapon in the game until his legs gave out last year. A great RB is always a bigger impact player than even the best WR; also Moss's mercurial behavior has to factor in.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
Tomlinson was undoubtedly the best runningback of his generation.
Moss is still abusing defenses. LDT averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year and has been on a steady decline since his record-breaking '06 season. Tomlinson wasn't also "undoubtedly" the best RB of his generation. His generation includes the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, Shaun Alexander, Curtis Martin, Clinton Portis, Corey Dillon in his prime, Edge James, and others. Undoubtedly, my ass.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Tomlinson vs. Moss....


Tough call, but I would go with Tomlinson. He was the most dynamic offensive weapon in the game until his legs gave out last year. A great RB is always a bigger impact player than even the best WR; also Moss's mercurial behavior has to factor in.
If Moss' mercurial behavior is to be factored in, Tomlinson's injury history, poor playoff performances, and his acting like a little ***** after losses should also be factored in.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Moss is still abusing defenses. LDT averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year and has been on a steady decline since his record-breaking '06 season. Tomlinson wasn't also "undoubtedly" the best RB of his generation. His generation includes the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, Shaun Alexander, Curtis Martin, Clinton Portis, Corey Dillon in his prime, Edge James, and others. Undoubtedly, my ass.

Tomlinson was better then everyone on that list, except Peterson and Johnson because we dont know how good they will be. Tomlinson will get in
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Tomlinson was better then everyone on that list, except Peterson and Johnson because we dont know how good they will be. Tomlinson will get in
I'm not saying that he won't get in, but he's not miles ahead of everyone else.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Early day predictions if production continues for some RBS:

Peterson: 3,385 carries for 15,715 yards 140 TDs

CJ2k: 3,045 carries for 16,170 yards 115 TDs

Williams: 2,710 carries for 14,378 yards 130 TDs

**Note these are based as 10 years production, assuming no decline (though, there's always a decline.)

I know this is ******** speculation and none of these guys have a likely shot of making this kind of production in their careers, but it's fun and it's not impossible.

Another fun fact, CJ and Williams are the only current backs (with actual resume's) in the NFL to have career YPC higher than Barry Sanders, CJ interestingly enough has 145 carries less than Williams in this span.

LT2 is a lock for the HOF, Moss, p. manning, brady are likely to get in too, Big Ben will be hard to keep out if he earns another ring too imo.

Ray Lewis is a lock too. Mawae is a maybe.

Brees needs to do a little more, or really just needs to continue.

Favre is a lock

Champ Bailey may be hard to lock down, since he has a lack of raw stats.

Jared Allen might have half a chance if he produces the same way for another 4 years or so. He'd have over 120 sacks total.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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I'm kind of surprised people have Marvin not making the hall of fame.

Harrison 13 seasons:
1102 catches 14850 yards 128 TDs

Owens 14 seasons:
1006 catches 14951 yards 144 TDs

Moss 12 seasons
926 catches 14465 yards 148 TDs

All of them are on-par imo, except one of them has a ring.

By the way, what have Owens & Moss done in the playoffs?
Has Owens won a playoff game since '03?
In the Patriots super bowl run, Moss had 7 catches under 100 yards & 0 TDs in 3 games.
Marvin has been shut down, but he also played against the Broncos in the playoffs too.


PS: what do people think of Dwight Freeney in the hall of fame?
Freeney 8 seasons 84 sacks 36 forced fumbles
Allen 6 seasons 72 sacks 21 forced fumbles
Allen has 1.5 more sacks per season, Freeny has 1 more forced fumble.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by falloutboy14 View Post
I'm kind of surprised people have Marvin not making the hall of fame.

Harrison 13 seasons:
1102 catches 14850 yards 128 TDs

Owens 14 seasons:
1006 catches 14951 yards 144 TDs

Moss 12 seasons
926 catches 14465 yards 148 TDs

All of them are on-par imo, except one of them has a ring.

By the way, what have Owens & Moss done in the playoffs?
Has Owens won a playoff game since '03?
In the Patriots super bowl run, Moss had 7 catches under 100 yards & 0 TDs in 3 games.
Marvin has been shut down, but he also played against the Broncos in the playoffs too.


PS: what do people think of Dwight Freeney in the hall of fame?
Freeney 8 seasons 84 sacks 36 forced fumbles
Allen 6 seasons 72 sacks 21 forced fumbles
Allen has 1.5 more sacks per season, Freeny has 1 more forced fumble.
I think the magic number for DE's is going to be around the 100 mark or higher for this era, reason being the number of OLBs who're racking up sacks due to the shift in the 34 in recent years.

If Allen continues he could have 120 plus sacks, if he plays for 10 years, Freeney could come close if he produces at a high level for two more years. Thing is though Freeney has struggled to stay healthy as of late in fact he's not played a full season in 4 years. If he produces as he could 16 more sacks, in two years, if he plays longer he'll be hard to ignore, he had 2 down years. Might be one of those hall of very good, but not good enough caes.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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The lack of kickers in this thread is sad, Jan Stenerud is lonely.


no reason other than he's awesome
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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When you look at players like LT and Moss you have to think of their Generation and other Players they played against.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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I was wondering the other day if Josh Cribbs will be a hall of famer. He will most likely go down as the best kick/punt returner of all time and shatter most of the records, that being said... If the Browns don't ever put anything together and he is just a stat guy, do you think he will get in?

I believe if he shatters records at his position he deserves it, hall of fame needs to be a thing of individual achievement not based on your team.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe there are people suggesting Tomlinson isn't a 100% lock for the HoF. Not a chance in hell he doesn't get in first ballot.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure why Marvin to the Hall isn't unanimous. 8 consecutive seasons with over 10 Tds, 8 consecutive with over 1100 yds (including three over 1500), the single season reception record (143), three-time first team All-Pro. Ranks 5th all time in Touchdown receptions, 5th in receiving yards, 2nd all-time in receptions. I don't care who he did or didn't shoot, he is a Hall of Famer easily based on his actions on the field.

I wonder, for those arguing against receivers making the Hall, are thinking about the way the game has shifted over the past 10-20-30 years. Almost every other year a passing record or receiving record is broken.

2002 - Marvin Harrison single-season receptions
2004 - Peyton Manning passing Tds
2007 - Tom Brady passing Tds, Randy Moss Td receptions
2008 - Drew Brees 5,000+ yards passing (15 shy of Marinos record)
2009 - Brandon Marshall single game receptions

Once a brutally tough task for a receiver, 100 receptions has become a common occurrence for receivers. There have been 66 times in which a receiver has caught over 100 balls, 39 in the last decade (2000-2009,) 54 since 1995. While surveying the NFL's single-season passing records, 4 of the 7 most productive seasons by an individual throwing the ball occur between 2001 and now. In fact, out of the 30 most productive passing seasons of all-time, 16 occurred from 1999-2008.

That all said, I think you're probably going to see several receivers accomplished enough for the Hall come from this decade. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are the easy ones, the most talented; however, Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Chad Johnson, and Steve Smith have/are in the process of putting together careers worthy of that lofty status. The game has changed, it's only reasonable to think that the way the Hall has done things in the past will also change. Comparing today's receivers with those of the 80s or 90s is pointless, as would be comparing Running Backs. These days you rarely have one workhorse back that carries the load for a team, let alone one that does so for nearly a decade... The game has changed, you're likely to see a upward spike in the amount of receivers chosen for the Hall for this generation while the amount of running backs that are putting together Hall-quality resumes is going to see an inevitable decline.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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Pudge, I don't necessarily agree.

You assume that a change in the game would suggest and more and more wide receivers are voted in, but I think it's just as likely that the voters recognize that it is here that they can define what makes up a HOF-worthy wide receiver is from here on out. I think we'll see the criteria for what makes up a "shoe-in" candidate change dramatically, perhaps even before Harrison is first up for induction.

The longer is takes for him to get in, the less and less likely it's going to be. He's nowhere near on par with Moss or Owens and the more guys who retire with comparable numbers to Harrison, the less impressive he will look.

Do I think Harrison has been good enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Yes. Do I think that he'll move past his competition in the voting to get in before his numbers are belittled by the general upswing of hugely productive wideouts? Not really. It's not impossible, but it will take some luck.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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My first ballot choices:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Randy Moss
LaDainian Tomlinson
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Champ Bailey
Tony Gonzalez

All of these guys should get in during the first year they are able to in my opinion.
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