Future Hall OF Famers

[XxXdragonXxX]

I can't believe there are people suggesting Tomlinson isn't a 100% lock for the HoF. Not a chance in hell he doesn't get in first ballot.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by dannyz

When you look at players like LT and Moss you have to think of their Generation and other Players they played against.

why would you even post something so bloody obvious?

Originally Posted by falloutboy14

Marvin has been shut down, but he also played against the Broncos in the playoffs too.

so what?

Originally Posted by BlindSite

CJ interestingly enough has 145 carries less than Williams in this span.

why is this interesting?

[ThePudge]

I'm not sure why Marvin to the Hall isn't unanimous. 8 consecutive seasons with over 10 Tds, 8 consecutive with over 1100 yds (including three over 1500), the single season reception record (143), three-time first team All-Pro. Ranks 5th all time in Touchdown receptions, 5th in receiving yards, 2nd all-time in receptions. I don't care who he did or didn't shoot, he is a Hall of Famer easily based on his actions on the field.

I wonder, for those arguing against receivers making the Hall, are thinking about the way the game has shifted over the past 10-20-30 years. Almost every other year a passing record or receiving record is broken.

2002 - Marvin Harrison single-season receptions
2004 - Peyton Manning passing Tds
2007 - Tom Brady passing Tds, Randy Moss Td receptions
2008 - Drew Brees 5,000+ yards passing (15 shy of Marinos record)
2009 - Brandon Marshall single game receptions

Once a brutally tough task for a receiver, 100 receptions has become a common occurrence for receivers. There have been 66 times in which a receiver has caught over 100 balls, 39 in the last decade (2000-2009,) 54 since 1995. While surveying the NFL's single-season passing records, 4 of the 7 most productive seasons by an individual throwing the ball occur between 2001 and now. In fact, out of the 30 most productive passing seasons of all-time, 16 occurred from 1999-2008.

That all said, I think you're probably going to see several receivers accomplished enough for the Hall come from this decade. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are the easy ones, the most talented; however, Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Chad Johnson, and Steve Smith have/are in the process of putting together careers worthy of that lofty status. The game has changed, it's only reasonable to think that the way the Hall has done things in the past will also change. Comparing today's receivers with those of the 80s or 90s is pointless, as would be comparing Running Backs. These days you rarely have one workhorse back that carries the load for a team, let alone one that does so for nearly a decade... The game has changed, you're likely to see a upward spike in the amount of receivers chosen for the Hall for this generation while the amount of running backs that are putting together Hall-quality resumes is going to see an inevitable decline.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Pudge, I don't necessarily agree.

You assume that a change in the game would suggest and more and more wide receivers are voted in, but I think it's just as likely that the voters recognize that it is here that they can define what makes up a HOF-worthy wide receiver is from here on out. I think we'll see the criteria for what makes up a "shoe-in" candidate change dramatically, perhaps even before Harrison is first up for induction.

The longer is takes for him to get in, the less and less likely it's going to be. He's nowhere near on par with Moss or Owens and the more guys who retire with comparable numbers to Harrison, the less impressive he will look.

Do I think Harrison has been good enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Yes. Do I think that he'll move past his competition in the voting to get in before his numbers are belittled by the general upswing of hugely productive wideouts? Not really. It's not impossible, but it will take some luck.

[Ness]

My first ballot choices:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Randy Moss
LaDainian Tomlinson
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Champ Bailey
Tony Gonzalez

All of these guys should get in during the first year they are able to in my opinion.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Pudge, I don't necessarily agree.

You assume that a change in the game would suggest and more and more wide receivers are voted in, but I think it's just as likely that the voters recognize that it is here that they can define what makes up a HOF-worthy wide receiver is from here on out. I think we'll see the criteria for what makes up a "shoe-in" candidate change dramatically, perhaps even before Harrison is first up for induction.

The longer is takes for him to get in, the less and less likely it's going to be. He's nowhere near on par with Moss or Owens and the more guys who retire with comparable numbers to Harrison, the less impressive he will look.

Do I think Harrison has been good enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Yes. Do I think that he'll move past his competition in the voting to get in before his numbers are belittled by the general upswing of hugely productive wideouts? Not really. It's not impossible, but it will take some luck.

Even as the NFL has become more and more of a passing league, it's going to be more difficult for someone to emulate what Marvin Harrison did, especially statistically. Now I don't think stats tell the entire story (Marvin was a ghost in a lot of his playoff games), but they are a big part of it. As far as wideouts are concerned, the number of 1,000 yard seasons have stayed about the same over the past few years. Even though the NFL has become more of a passing league, I think offenses are finding more talented wideouts to spread the ball around to other players...which doesn't necessarily translate to one player getting bigger numbers.

As for what this has to do with Harrison and his HOF potential status, nothing really. I'm just saying that it's going to be hard to emulate what he did over an entire career. His postseason performances hurt his 1st ballot chances though.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I would only argue with Champ Bailey there. He's never been the rock of consistency that I would equate with the great cornerbacks. He's had some fantastic years, but he's had some really rough times too.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

I would only argue with Champ Bailey there. He's never been the rock of consistency that I would equate with the great cornerbacks. He's had some fantastic years, but he's had some really rough times too.

Fair enough. But then again, it's one of the positions in football where it's really hard to be consistent. Especially if the front seven is not that spectacular. If any corner from the last decade deserves it, it should be him.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Ness

Fair enough. But then again, it's one of the positions in football where it's really hard to be consistent. Especially if the front seven is not that spectacular. If any corner from the last decade deserves it, it should be him.

There may be a bit of fan bias here, but I honestly think that if Nnamdi Asomugha puts together another few years of shut-down play and then makes the transition to free safety successfully, he should make for a much stronger induction case. That's a lot of "ifs" though.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

There may be a bit of fan bias here, but I honestly think that if Nnamdi Asomugha puts together another few years of shut-down play and then makes the transition to free safety successfully, he should make for a much stronger induction case. That's a lot of "ifs" though.

He'd have to have some really good luck for two reasons: his age, and his team. Nnamdi came into the league in 2003, but really didn't break out until 2007 I believe. He's already 29 and still plays for the Oakland Raiders. Things would really have to go his way in the next few seasons to have his chances boosted.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by GB12

Really? He was in the NFL for just four years. It's absolutely ridiculous to even mention his name in this discussion. It's unfortunate he was killed, but four years doesn't make a Hall of Famer no matter what the circumstances.

Terrell Davis might be the lone exception to that. He was in the NFL for more than four seasons, but he really only had four good seasons in the NFL. Perhaps the best four season stretch for a runningback in NFL history.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Ness

He'd have to have some really good luck for two reasons: his age, and his team. Nnamdi came into the league in 2003, but really didn't break out until 2007 I believe. He's already 29 and still plays for the Oakland Raiders. Things would really have to go his way in the next few seasons to have his chances boosted.

We'll have to see if he's even a Raider after this season.

And Nnamdi played had a great first year starting opposite and then replacing Charles Woodson (who got hurt), then nabbed 8 interceptions in 2006. In each of the three seasons since, he's allowed the least receptions of any starting cornerback.

[fenikz]

Odds of Adrian Wilson making it in

2 100 tackle seasons, 20.5 Career Sacks, 12 FF, 23 INT

the only way I can think of him not getting in is because most anyone outside of Arizona(or the division) knew about him until his late 20s

[wicket]

Originally Posted by ThePudge

2002 - Marvin Harrison single-season receptions
2004 - Peyton Manning passing Tds
2007 - Tom Brady passing Tds, Randy Moss Td receptions
2008 - Drew Brees 5,000+ yards passing (15 shy of Marinos record)
2009 - Brandon Marshall single game receptions

add in Brees records for season passing accuracy last season

[BlindSite]

Originally Posted by njx9

why is this interesting?

Because more carries generally means less ypc for a running back if they're a starting player. It's more about how good Williams has been than CJ not having the potential. If CJ keeps it up, hell, if any of them keep it up it'll be interesting to watch.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by fenikz

Odds of Adrian Wilson making it in

2 100 tackle seasons, 20.5 Career Sacks, 12 FF, 23 INT

the only way I can think of him not getting in is because most anyone outside of Arizona(or the division) knew about him until his late 20s

Im not optimistic. Unless voters opinions change pretty soon that is. Safeties in general have a really hard time getting in to the Hall. Add in as you mentioned he spent the early part of his career under the radar and was probably never the best or even second best safety at any stage. A lot of people dont think Rodney Harrison will go in but his career stats are

7 100 tackle seasons, 1242 total tackles in his career, 30.5 career sacks, 34 INTs and 16 FFs.

I think he is way better than a lot of safeties who also have a chance at the Hall but by the time he retires there may start to be a backlog of safeties waiting to get in and he may get looked over

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Bengals78

He needs a few more big years. One super big year and I think he gets it MAYBE first ballot.

He was our passing attack last season. A poor passing game and he still had over 1000 yards. Not easy facing double teams all season because we had no one else to cover lol

no way in hell

chads stats are pretty close to wards, especially as far as TDs go...hes more of a down field type of guy so he gets a few more yards usually but hes no where near the top of this generation of WR and trying your absolute hardest to be funny and a TV personality doesnt lock you in the hall....he wont sniff the hall, the thought of him going first ballot would be criminal

[SloppyJoe]

no love for Ronde Barber?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by BlindSite

Because more carries generally means less ypc for a running back if they're a starting player. It's more about how good Williams has been than CJ not having the potential. If CJ keeps it up, hell, if any of them keep it up it'll be interesting to watch.

he's barely been a starter (in that he's split time with stewart, and had <150 carries his first two years), and has been in the league two years longer than johnson. i don't see it as anything other than a fluff attempt.

Originally Posted by ThePudge

Chad Johnson...have/are in the process of putting together careers worthy of that lofty status.

as many times as you repeat it, it still won't ever be remotely close to true.

[hockey619]

Chad Ochocinco will not make the Hall. I dont even think hes got as good of a shot as McNabb, who I think is in the hall of very good but wont quite make it. He may get some votes cause everyone thought he was fun and a great personality, but what hes done on the field cant compete with Randy, TO, Harrison, maybe even Steve Smith guys who were just much more dominant.

[scottyboy]

this thread is lacking some serious Ray Rice.
and Jeff Feagles

[FUNBUNCHER]

After Ladanian, there really isn't another RB (other than Marshall Faulk) on the horizon who's even close to making it to Canton.

Sure, you can project ahead for guys like AD, but realistically, RB is one of those positions where you have to be utterly brilliant in your style of play, otherwise you need the longevity and the numbers.

For most backs going forward, IMO if they don't hit 13,000 career rushing yards and at least 95 TDs, the HOF will be a wish not reality.

Think about it; Tiki Barber is not gonna ever make it to Canton. Same for Ahman Green and a host of RBs who were outstanding in their time, but simply weren't consistent enough or didn't have the longevity.

Some act as if Adrian Peterson is a LOCK, when in fact he's 6 years away from even approaching numbers that would make him eligible for the HOF. That's a lot of hits and injuries he'll have to overcome to become one of the greats.

Which is another reason I believe one of the most important traits for an NFL RB is durability. The longer you can play and absorb hit after hit on every carry is one metric that separates the good from the great.

I feel the same way about this generation of WRs. After the obvious top 10 guys, active and retired, are sorted out, I don't see ANY under-25 WRs who look like potential alltimers.

[ThePudge]

Originally Posted by hockey619

Chad Ochocinco will not make the Hall. I dont even think hes got as good of a shot as McNabb, who I think is in the hall of very good but wont quite make it. He may get some votes cause everyone thought he was fun and a great personality, but what hes done on the field cant compete with Randy, TO, Harrison, maybe even Steve Smith guys who were just much more dominant.

Who said those guys are necessarily "competing?" Due to the recent breakout of the passing game, this generation is bound to see an increase in the amount of receivers considered Hall-bound. It doesn't have to be only four or five players, we're literally witnessing (in the last decade) by far the most prolific passing/receiving decade ever. No need to fret of course, the amount of Running Backs that will be admitted to the Hall will undoubtedly be lower for the 2000-2010 period. Eventually, as the game continues to evolve, you'll see it's requirements (for the Hall) increase.

If Chad is sniffing around 1000 receptions and 15,000 yards he should be in, simple as that. That's three more productive seasons and two that may not be so productive but still have him in some sort of role. For a five year stretch from 2003-2007 he was consistently among the 3-5 most productive receivers in football and though you may have never thought he had the talent (to be a top 5 receiver in the best receiving generation ever,) he still produced as if he did. Whether you'd have agreed with it or not, he was 1st Team All-Pro twice with those same guys playing in the NFL. His personality surely won't get him in the Hall, but I wouldn't doubt his on-field accomplishments and what he has left in the tank. I'm not saying first ballot, of course, but taking into consideration a number of things I can't say that he has 'zero' chance.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by BlindSite

Early day predictions if production continues for some RBS:

Peterson: 3,385 carries for 15,715 yards 140 TDs

CJ2k: 3,045 carries for 16,170 yards 115 TDs

Williams: 2,710 carries for 14,378 yards 130 TDs

You really think there's a serious possibility that Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Deangelo Williams are arguably the 3 greatest RBs in the history of the NFL??

Speculation too on my part, but NO WAY Deangelo Williams or Chris Johnson come within 3000 yards of those numbers.

Adrian Peterson is going to get seriously hurt, a leg injury I suspect, in the next 4 years, so IMO he'd be lucky to hit 13,000 - 14,000. Which would still get HIM into the HOF.

Of the three I have more faith in AD being the 'one'.

Deangelo Williams and CJ, practically impossible.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by ThePudge

If Chad is sniffing around 1000 receptions and 15,000 yards he should be in, simple as that. That's three more productive seasons and two that may not be so productive but still have him in some sort of role. For a five year stretch from 2003-2007 he was consistently among the 3-5 most productive receivers in football and though you may have never thought he had the talent (to be a top 5 receiver in the best receiving generation ever,) he still produced as if he did. Whether you'd have agreed with it or not, he was 1st Team All-Pro twice with those same guys playing in the NFL. His personality surely won't get him in the Hall, but I wouldn't doubt his on-field accomplishments and what he has left in the tank. I'm not saying first ballot, of course, but taking into consideration a number of things I can't say that he has 'zero' chance.

he'd currently need OVER 4 more seasons identical to last season to touch 1000 catches, OVER 4 more seasons identical to last year to hit 15000 yards. and you think that's a remotely reasonable projection? from 2003-2007, he was top 5 in tds ONCE and led the league in anything ONCE (coincidentally, the same number of times muhsin muhammad led the league in something). he has next to no 'on-field accomplishments', and he's NEVER consistently been a top 5 receiver in this generation. owens, moss, holt, johnson, fitz, harrison, steve smith, wayne have all been better. and most of them won't make the hall, either.