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Old 08-18-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
Dear Adam Schefter:

A sprain is a tear. Tear/sprain is used interchangeably by doctors. Your tweet is like saying "Tom Brady does not play for New England. Tom Brady plays for the Patriots."

If I can jump to a conclusion from what Schefter is saying, Wright has a grade 1 sprain/tear. This would mean ligaments in Wright's knee have micro-tears rather than a partial or full rupture of the ligaments.
Yet a sprained knee and a torn knee have ALWAYS been understood to be different. No need to attack poor lil' Shefty lol.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Adam Schefter:

MRI showed Titans WR Kendall Wright has a sprained knee, not a torn ACL. Wright is expected to miss the rest of preseason.
At least they'll have one guy there that can catch the ball.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
I have mixed feelings towards the Swearinger tackle.

Was it a cheap shot? Somewhat
Was it intentional? I don't believe it was

I've always thought there was an unwritten rule in the NFL against shots like this in the preseason, maybe Swearinger hasn't gotten that message yet.

In the end, the problem always comes back to what you said. NFL players are piss poor tacklers. I'd love for the NFL to realize it's a problem, and hold safety training sessions on proper tackling technique. Of course, this will never happen
It was actually intentional, per DJ's own words:
"With the rules in this era you've got to hit low," Swearinger told ESPN.com's Tania Ganguli after Saturday night's game against the Dolphins. "If I would have hit him high, I would have gotten a fine. So I think I made the smartest play.

You see somebody come across the middle, you gotta go low.
The rookie safety said he knew he had to change his playing style after being penalized for high hits in college.

"My senior year I had like three helmet-to-helmet [penalties]," Swearinger told ESPN.com. "I knew I had to change my style.


No, he's not saying he intended to destroy his knee 100% like a bomb hit it, and end his career.
But he is saying he's trained himself to target the knee area, per the fines for shots to the head.

Still amazes me there are so many stupid DBs and one Napolean-complex poster here who think there's only knee and head on a target.

Nothing in-between to hit apparently.

I never saw Ray Lewis, Ronnie Lott, Mike Singletary, Lawrence Taylor, Charles Woodson dive into someone's knee like that, and they did pretty well getting guys down.


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Old 08-18-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
It was actually intentional, per DJ's own words:
"With the rules in this era you've got to hit low," Swearinger told ESPN.com's Tania Ganguli after Saturday night's game against the Dolphins. "If I would have hit him high, I would have gotten a fine. So I think I made the smartest play.

You see somebody come across the middle, you gotta go low.
The rookie safety said he knew he had to change his playing style after being penalized for high hits in college.

"My senior year I had like three helmet-to-helmet [penalties]," Swearinger told ESPN.com. "I knew I had to change my style.


No, he's not saying he intended to destroy his knee 100% like a bomb hit it, and end his career.
But he is saying he's trained himself to target the knee area, per the fines for shots to the head.

Still amazes me there are so many stupid DBs and one Napolean-complex poster here who think there's only knee and head on a target.

Nothing in-between to hit apparently.

I never saw Ray Lewis, Ronnie Lott, Mike Singletary, Lawrence Taylor, Charles Woodson dive into someone's knee like that, and they did pretty well getting guys down.

Okay, first off, Lewis, Singletary, Taylor were all big LB's. Comparing them to a CB/S in tackling is different.
a LOT of DB's go low on bigger offensive players, thats a fact.
For instance, here is Charles Woodson going low on Jahvid Best:
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Okay, first off, Lewis, Singletary, Taylor were all big LB's. Comparing them to a CB/S in tackling is different.
a LOT of DB's go low on bigger offensive players, thats a fact.
For instance, here is Charles Woodson going low on Jahvid Best:
Woodson: 6-1 210lbs
Best: 5-10 199
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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DBs will continue to use their helmets as weapons and launch themselves like missiles into players knees/legs. It is just as easy and much safer for a DB to wrap up an offensive player around his legs using his arms to trip him up and bring him down, it is much more fundamental and the way they would have to tackle if not using helmets.

How many times does a DB go for the big hit and whiff completely allowing an offensive player to get more yardage? Their is nothing wrong with getting down and keeping your head up and arm tackle a TE/RB/WR by the legs and drag them down.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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LOT of DB's go low on bigger offensive players, thats a fact.
For instance, here is Charles Woodson going low on Jahvid Best:
Good find of Woodson.
I think Best was running at him, which is a bit different than the receiver who catches and turns, plants, when he's nailed. But these hits, as we saw on Adrian Peterson, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore, too often lead to catastrophic injuries, and even if on a 49ers player, these are hits I want to see avoided.











Google-Image the Jordan Shipley injury, and the Ovie Mughelli injury. They were like Keller, where they had no chance at all. 100% defenseless, and blind, to the hit coming in as they were spinning around. The DB could have drilled them in the chest, waist, if they wanted to. They took the ***** way out and went low into the knee.

If Woodson did this, or anyone on my Packers, I think they should be suspendable offenses.

Look, this is a rough game. Football is a collision sport. It's not for softies (except kickers).
And many injuries are going to happen no matter what. That's the nature of this game.


But these types of big injuries can be seriously reduced, if not eliminated all together. Make them illegal, as they did to the QBs once Bernie took out Giselle's man's ACL. Carson Palmer's knee didn't do the job though.

However, as I said with the Horse Collar decades ago (when Joey Browner snapped Gerald Willhite's leg and ended his career.... of course I hated the Vikings then so that hit stood out.)
Now obviously the NFL has figured out to penalize this cheap hit. The dives into runners/receivers knees will come..... I just wish sooner.

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Old 08-18-2013, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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All these fuckingpunk DB's finish diving down to the turf.
THAT IS NOT TACKLING. That's street ball.

There's 2-3 feet between the knee and the head.

By the way, this is part of the reason I love my RB's to be low to the ground, and I think the shortness of MJD, Ray Rice, DuJuan Harris is actually an advantage as it's harder for those puzzzy DBs to get down to the ACL when they dive down like.

But we are not teaching kids to tackle like this. At least not here in Texas we are not teaching it like that.

High school players SEE this on TV.
It trickles down....college guys do it, and then they get to the NFL and we see it all the time.

The NFL set the tone with the horse collar being ruled illegal, and then the hits low on a QB.
They need to do the same on these next... it will filter down to NCAA and high school. Forcing coaches to make sure they're learning how to tackle properly.

But the quicker fix, and my main goal, is to prevent players like Keller, Mughelli, Shipley, Willhite, McGahee, Peterson from getting their knees blown apart again in the NFL. That is making these hits a penalty/fine/suspension.

Louis Delmas took out Mughelli and he tried to take out Mike Vick the same way he ended Mughelli's career.

Here was Shipley's and I was watching this game. He had caught and was just turning around... when the guy came in low and ducked his head down low to get at his knees.

Here was Delmas on Mughelli, who hadn't even yet turned around from catching a swing pass. Delmas could have tackled him anywhere he wanted, but he chose to target the knee.

LOUIS DELMAS IS THE KING OF THE ACL-HUNTING THOUGH!




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Old 08-18-2013, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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DBs will continue to use their helmets as weapons and launch themselves like missiles into players knees/legs. It is just as easy and much safer for a DB to wrap up an offensive player around his legs using his arms to trip him up and bring him down, it is much more fundamental and the way they would have to tackle if not using helmets.

How many times does a DB go for the big hit and whiff completely allowing an offensive player to get more yardage? Their is nothing wrong with getting down and keeping your head up and arm tackle a TE/RB/WR by the legs and drag them down.
Go for the hips. They don't lie.
Guys who dive at knees can be beat easier when they miss on the career enders. Why not just use better form and technique instead of launching at knees?
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Jahvid Best, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore, and Jordan Shipley were all hit initially at the thigh. When a player's foot is planting at the exact time he's hit just above the knee, bad things can still happen. Terrible things.

I just don't like the Swearinger attitude about tackling high or low. It reminded me very much of James Harrison.

For two seasons all James Harrison said was that he only knew one way to tackle and that he would never change. Then after his big fine, he goes directly for Eric Decker's knee.

Looks like you knew a different way to tackle, James.

A defensive player can never be perfect, but if they wanted to, they could definitely hit waist to thigh on their tackles. The problem with that is that very few of them wrap up properly and will bounce off. If you drive through the waist and wrap the legs, the man will go down. Just look at the best tackling ILBs.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Can we all agree that we'd like to cut down, if not totally eliminate, these types of preventable catastrophic injuries?

Then what can be done?

Education, and rules, which punishment include A) penalties, B) fines, C) suspensions, D) bans.

Delmas would be banned by now if up to me. I've personally seen him try and take out 3 guys knees. He succeeded in ending Mughelli's career. He whiffed on Vick as he luckily leaped up before the flying squirrel came into the knee area (as seen in that clip above), and I recall him injuring J-Mike and he missed a few games, although not a season-ender.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Can we all agree that we'd like to cut down, if not totally eliminate, these types of preventable catastrophic injuries?

Then what can be done?

Education, and rules, which punishment include A) penalties, B) fines, C) suspensions, D) bans.

Delmas would be banned by now if up to me. I've personally seen him try and take out 3 guys knees. He succeeded in ending Mughelli's career. He whiffed on Vick as he luckily leaped up before the flying squirrel came into the knee area (as seen in that clip above), and I recall him injuring J-Mike and he missed a few games, although not a season-ender.
Sad thing is half this stuff doesn't even get flagged. I don 't think you can legislate a totally safe sport because it's football but there needs to be some discussion about the situation.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Sad thing is half this stuff doesn't even get flagged. I don 't think you can legislate a totally safe sport because it's football but there needs to be some discussion about the situation.
Absolutely.
I think more & more people figured out the horse-collar was dangerous, and finally it became law after TO had his ankle broken by one.

Then Carson Palmer got his ACL blown up by the Steeler guy in the playoff game when Cinci had a chance to go far... that opened eyes.

And a few years later we all saw Bernie Pollard pop Brady's ACL, and that's what it took to legislate those things.

Reminds me of the days in the NHL before they had nets up there protecting fans. It took a girl getting killed by a deflected puck before they said "hey, maybe we should protect the fans".

Dustin Keller, Jordan Shipley, Ovie Mughelli aren't big enough stars perhaps. Adrian Peterson obviously is, but a runner vs a defenseless receiver, that's a little bit different. Still, I believe it can be done.

Like the above guys say above, these guys just need to be taught how to properly tackle. I think fines and suspensions can light a fire under them to learn fast.

Again, I don't ever want to see anyone, even Vernon Davis, Mike Crabtree, Greg Jennings, Brandon Marshall, Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, Golden Tate have their ACLs or MCLs or legs blown up from cheap shots low.

Man up, and stand up.
See the target, hips don't lie, neither do the numbers.

By the way, I got so much respect for McGahee and Peterson, and Brady, for coming back from those damn things.
McGahee was so great too, he had superstar written all over him.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Detachable limbs are the future.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Jahvid Best, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore, and Jordan Shipley were all hit initially at the thigh. When a player's foot is planting at the exact time he's hit just above the knee, bad things can still happen. Terrible things.

I just don't like the Swearinger attitude about tackling high or low. It reminded me very much of James Harrison.

For two seasons all James Harrison said was that he only knew one way to tackle and that he would never change. Then after his big fine, he goes directly for Eric Decker's knee.

Looks like you knew a different way to tackle, James.

A defensive player can never be perfect, but if they wanted to, they could definitely hit waist to thigh on their tackles. The problem with that is that very few of them wrap up properly and will bounce off. If you drive through the waist and wrap the legs, the man will go down. Just look at the best tackling ILBs.
pretty much. a focus on form tackling and the accepting that injuries just happen sometimes would go a long way.

the league needs to accept that even a clean form tackle sometimes results in heads connecting and injuries. shouldn't be a fine unless it is blatantly intentional and hits like that below the thigh to the knee really only have one purpose.

A lot of the nasty injuries are just freak accidents. Hitting someone high and their leg plants...
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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Barkevious could have died

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...gn=Twitter_atl

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Cleveland Browns rookie linebacker Barkevious Mingo was lucky to escape with a bruised lung after suffering what one doctor called a "very, very unusual" injury during last Thursday's 24-6 preseason victory over the Detroit Lions.

Mingo revealed Sunday that he was spitting up blood after taking a hit on a kickoff return. According to the Plain Dealer, the estimated mortality rate on Mingo's injury is "about 14% to 40%."

In fact, Dr. Clark Fuller, Director of Thoracic Surgery at Saint John's Health Center in Santa Monica, Ca., told the Plain Dealer that Mingo would have risked death had he remained in the game and taken a shot to the chest.

Fuller did not treat Mingo, but he explained that the linebacker had already torn small blood vessels, "and if you tear some larger ones, the chest cavity is an area where you could bleed to death and nobody ever sees a drop of blood on the ground."

Mingo skirted disaster by going straight to the coaches because he "didn't feel right" and had trouble catching his breath.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Wow, that is pretty damn scary with Mingo.

How many rookies would have risked saying they don't feel right in their first NFL action?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Colin Cowherd was talking today about how more defensive players are going low because they can't go high anymore without getting a penalty. The NFL is sacrificing knee injuries for head injuries.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Colin Cowherd was talking today about how more defensive players are going low because they can't go high anymore without getting a penalty. The NFL is sacrificing knee injuries for head injuries.
This might be a little dramatic but I guess you have to look at it as way of life > football career.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Colin Cowherd was talking today about how more defensive players are going low because they can't go high anymore without getting a penalty. The NFL is sacrificing knee injuries for head injuries.
I don't know about this. As has been said - there's a good 2-3 feet between the head and the knees. It doesn't make sense to say, "Well, I can't hit him in the head... guess I'll go for the knees."

Go for the midsection, bud.

Maybe it means ballcarriers getting longer gains, but frankly, that's preferable to seeing all these guys getting their knees destroyed. Might as well just make it the same strike zone as in baseball. It's going to be arbitrary to an extent, but the refs can use their judgement to know if it's an incidental hit, or, as in nearly all the above clips, a defensive player is recklessly diving towards someone's exposed knees. Obviously you can't tell a defensive player they're not allowed to grab someone's legs, but I can't conscientiously object to a rule change which would deter tacklers from throwing their head and shoulders into a player's knees. Knees only bend one way, and if the foot is planted in the ground, it all too often ends in a catastrophic injury.

I mean, just make it a penalty for "diving at the legs." If a defender happens to be on the ground and grabs legs, that's totally fine. But the time seems ripe to tell defenders that they can't lead a low tackle into someone's knees with their head and shoulders. It wouldn't disrupt the flow of the game; it'd be just like when a defender aims the crown of his helmet at a receiver's head as he's trying to make a catch. If you've got a shot lined up on somebody, make it a body shot. If some big running back is steamrolling towards you, better hope you learned to form tackle, because that big running back doesn't deserve to have his leg broken because a defender doesn't want to take a hit himself. Obviously the game can be chaotic, but the refs already have a degree of discretion with certain calls, and it doesn't seem like there should be a problem with a 5-yard penalty for a dangerous hit and a 15-yard penalty for a truly malicious one.

That said, while we're on the topic of changing rules and lest it seem like everything is altered to help the offense... let's lighten up on pass interference and let cornerbacks be physical with receivers downfield again.

Seriously, the knee-breaking tackles just need to end. They're cheap and unnecessary.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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M problem with diving and putting your helmet/shoulder into the knee is that you can just as easily wrap your arms around the feet and they fall.

I know it's high school, but I led my team in tackles from the safety position. I could tackle people 50+ pounds more than me up high, and if they had a full head of steam I would go low. Never once did I lead with my helmet, and never once did I dive at their knees.

We're only looking at this from an offensive standpoint, but from a defenders standpoint you are more likely to suffer head, neck and spinal injuries by tackling this way.

The NFL has stopped "leading with the helmet", but apparently that only applies to the upper part of the body. Players consistently lead with the helmet when tackling below the waist.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I can barely watch the NFL now without my temperature rising every time there is a pass interference or defensive holding call. I really wouldn't mind all the rule changes if they could just let the defense play defense. Its just not fair for DBs in todays game.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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I can barely watch the NFL now without my temperature rising every time there is a pass interference or defensive holding call. I really wouldn't mind all the rule changes if they could just let the defense play defense. Its just not fair for DBs in todays game.
And it seems like a fair trade for telling them not to go low on the big guys. Wrap up on tackles and play aggressively when the ball's in the air. It would be a win-win rule change combo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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The problem with going for the midsection is that ballcarriers anticipate the blow and lower their head. Especially receivers. Thus, a hit to the midsection becomes the crown of the helmet right underneath the facemask, and they get flagged and fined anyway.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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We lose Gronk and Hernandez, and now after the Keller injury we somehow still may have the 4 best TE's in the division. How does that happen?
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